Discussion on Cornerback

gtgilbert · Feb 7, 2017

Harmost said:
This is an extremely odd little to-may-to vs to-mah-to quibble to double down on, given the post you were responding to. It doesn't necessarily imply so much, and his post didn't suggest that he thought Cyrus was a more natural WR or a complete newcomer to DB or anything like that. In fact, a more charitable - but also completely normal and maybe more natural - reading would of understood the post to be acknowledging that there are players with the natural ability to play many positions, and that those players' current positions may not necessarily limit where we could use them.

I'll back up RTR91 and CrimsonProf here because there was always a discussion in the media about CJ being a converted WR and they made it sound like some grand experiment in taking a guy who'd never played the position and trying to teach him something new. that was not at all the case with CJ. He played both ways in HS, at WR, RB and DB, but if anything, he was a converted CB playing WR. He had 5 picks his Sr year of HS and played CB in the UA All-star game, getting a pick six. Yes, he started out as a WR at bama, but the talk around the program at the time was that the coaches thought all along he'd be a CB, but CJ really wanted to try out WR first. Pretty quickly he fell behind the two other WR's in his class, Chris Black and Amari Cooper so it was pretty obvious that the time at WR was more the experiment than the move to DB was going to be. Had black not gotten hurt early it's not a sure thing that CJ would have ever got the few game reps at WR he did.

bamacpa · Feb 7, 2017

I'd like to see Minkah back at corner, but safety play will dictate that.

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CrimSonami · Feb 7, 2017

I'd think Townsend could be an option. Has the head for it. He's fast enough. Close to 6' if not on it. Already on campus and we're loaded at RB/WR.

gtgilbert · Feb 7, 2017

CrimSonami said:
I'd think Townsend could be an option. Has the head for it. He's fast enough. Close to 6' if not on it. Already on campus and we're loaded at RB/WR.

possible I suppose, although I think this would fall into the realm of 'converting' a player as I don't recall seeing any highlights of him playing DB. biggest physical thing would be if he has the hip flexibility for it.

RTR91 · Feb 7, 2017

CrimSonami said:
I'd think Townsend could be an option. Has the head for it. He's fast enough. Close to 6' if not on it. Already on campus and we're loaded at RB/WR.

Staff has told him he's playing offense. If anyone on the offense makes the switch, it would be Diggs since he played both ways last year.

gtgilbert · Feb 7, 2017

RTR91 said:
Staff has told him he's playing offense. If anyone on the offense makes the switch, it would be Diggs since he played both ways last year.

I can't remember - was he taking reps at corner or safety when he was getting reps on D? For some reason I thought it was S instead of corner, but I would love to see a guy like that at 6'2" be able to play CB!

teamplayer · Feb 7, 2017

bamacon said:
Double A was a shut down corner by the end of the year. He'll be fine. I think some of the other guys will be pleasant surprises but per the usual expect growing pains.

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I'm no NFL talent scout, but by mid season I had more confidence in AA than I did when the ball was thrown at MH. MH was very good, but AA almost seemed like he was in the WR's uniform with him at times.

TiderMan · Feb 7, 2017

LA4Bama said:
I was wondering about this. Maybe the staff has an idea of converting a receiver. I think Cyrus Jones was a converted receiver and that worked out pretty good!

I completely understood where you were coming from. I have figured all along that if we were thin at corner, Saban would convert someone that was already playing another position such as WR, RB, etc. Too bad others on here had to try and make something out of this that wasn't there. Coach Bryant used to take All State QB's and turn them into RB's, CB's and Safeties. I am sure Saban can do the same no matter what they played in high school.

CrimsonProf · Feb 7, 2017

TiderMan said:
I completely understood where you were coming from. I have figured all along that if we were thin at corner, Saban would convert someone that was already playing another position such as WR, RB, etc. Too bad others on here had to try and make something out of this that wasn't there. Coach Bryant used to take All State QB's and turn them into RB's, CB's and Safeties. I am sure Saban can do the same no matter what they played in high school.

Except CNS didn't take a WR and turn him into a CB. Jones had been a CB for years - including high school all-star games - and then he got a crack at WR. The move to CB was back to his natural position.

Harmost · Feb 7, 2017

gtgilbert said:
I'll back up RTR91 and CrimsonProf here because there was always a discussion in the media about CJ being a converted WR and they made it sound like some grand experiment in taking a guy who'd never played the position and trying to teach him something new. that was not at all the case with CJ. He played both ways in HS, at WR, RB and DB, but if anything, he was a converted CB playing WR. He had 5 picks his Sr year of HS and played CB in the UA All-star game, getting a pick six. Yes, he started out as a WR at bama, but the talk around the program at the time was that the coaches thought all along he'd be a CB, but CJ really wanted to try out WR first. Pretty quickly he fell behind the two other WR's in his class, Chris Black and Amari Cooper so it was pretty obvious that the time at WR was more the experiment than the move to DB was going to be. Had black not gotten hurt early it's not a sure thing that CJ would have ever got the few game reps at WR he did.

Ok, so, to the extent that's some sort of misunderstanding that needs to be railed against, wouldn't it be better to take the fight to someone who was actually clearly perpetuating the misunderstanding rather than to someone who...wasn't? As I said, didn't make sense given the post it was responding to.

If the original post had said anything like what the response suggested it did - i.e. that Cyrus came out of the womb running routes and catching footballs but was forced by evil Coach Saban (lo! doth Saban not care to see his players cultivate the objects of their natural bounty?) to upend the simple WR life he knew and switch to DB, then sure, I guess, "WELL, ACTUALLY..." away at that post if you must. But it didn't. So to the extent one still felt compelled to give a tangential sermon on natural positions and the ambiguity in the word "convert," a better way of doing that might have started more like "Yeah, that's true. But Cyrus wasn't wasn't necessarily a pure WR, and in fact had some experience... and so on."

rtrbama1 · Feb 7, 2017

gtgilbert said:
I can't remember - was he taking reps at corner or safety when he was getting reps on D? For some reason I thought it was S instead of corner, but I would love to see a guy like that at 6'2" be able to play CB!

Safety

gtgilbert · Feb 8, 2017

Harmost said:
Ok, so, to the extent that's some sort of misunderstanding that needs to be railed against, wouldn't it be better to take the fight to someone who was actually clearly perpetuating the misunderstanding rather than to someone who...wasn't? As I said, didn't make sense given the post it was responding to.

If the original post had said anything like what the response suggested it did - i.e. that Cyrus came out of the womb running routes and catching footballs but was forced by evil Coach Saban (lo! doth Saban not care to see his players cultivate the objects of their natural bounty?) to upend the simple WR life he knew and switch to DB, then sure, I guess, "WELL, ACTUALLY..." away at that post if you must. But it didn't. So to the extent one still felt compelled to give a tangential sermon on natural positions and the ambiguity in the word "convert," a better way of doing that might have started more like "Yeah, that's true. But Cyrus wasn't wasn't necessarily a pure WR, and in fact had some experience... and so on."

please go re-read the initial couple of posts. The premise of them was that since we didn't get two CBs signed in this class, that the staff could convert a WR over to CB for depth and cited Cyrus as an example. Thing is, since Cyrus was really a CB (since that's what he played in the all-star games), that's not really a true statement. The initial response from Crimsonprof basically did what you said - yes he played some WR but was 2 way player in HS instead of a pure WR recruit and had potential for either side of the ball in college. Then the response to that went off the rail in defending that it was indeed some actual conversion that happened; basically doing what you said it didn't do in claiming Cyrus was some natural WR talent who we converted because we had to.

does any of this mean that we won't try players at positions they didn't play in HS? of course not. Adarius was a QB in HS as was Jacobs. There are also guys who played many positions in HS; Eddie Jackson was a WR/DB. Sylve played WR, RB and DB in HS. A. Robinson was an OT/DT. I'm sure a lot of the guys we've got at LB played some RB or TE in HS as well. LOTs of guys play both ways in HS, but not all.

That said a majority (possibly all?) of our WR corps is now made up of guys who are pretty much pure WRs who didn't spend much, if any, time on the other side of the ball. Further, the only guy who might match the profile of a corner would be Ridley (other than a couple of walk-on WRs) as everyone else is 6'4" +. Equating converting one of them into a corner to the situation with Cyrus isn't even close to accurate. Other than Diggs, all the guys who played WR/RB/DB in HS are already playing DB for us now.

The Ols · Feb 8, 2017

Didn't we give D.Henry a crack @ linebacker!!!

gtgilbert said:
please go re-read the initial couple of posts. The premise of them was that since we didn't get two CBs signed in this class, that the staff could convert a WR over to CB for depth and cited Cyrus as an example. Thing is, since Cyrus was really a CB (since that's what he played in the all-star games), that's not really a true statement. The initial response from Crimsonprof basically did what you said - yes he played some WR but was 2 way player in HS instead of a pure WR recruit and had potential for either side of the ball in college. Then the response to that went off the rail in defending that it was indeed some actual conversion that happened; basically doing what you said it didn't do in claiming Cyrus was some natural WR talent who we converted because we had to.

does any of this mean that we won't try players at positions they didn't play in HS? of course not. Adarius was a QB in HS as was Jacobs. There are also guys who played many positions in HS; Eddie Jackson was a WR/DB. Sylve played WR, RB and DB in HS. A. Robinson was an OT/DT. I'm sure a lot of the guys we've got at LB played some RB or TE in HS as well. LOTs of guys play both ways in HS, but not all.

That said a majority (possibly all?) of our WR corps is now made up of guys who are pretty much pure WRs who didn't spend much, if any, time on the other side of the ball. Further, the only guy who might match the profile of a corner would be Ridley (other than a couple of walk-on WRs) as everyone else is 6'4" +. Equating converting one of them into a corner to the situation with Cyrus isn't even close to accurate. Other than Diggs, all the guys who played WR/RB/DB in HS are already playing DB for us now.

Nolan · Feb 8, 2017

Our depth at CB should be fine this year, barring another rash of transfers or injuries. We will have some inexperienced guys in the 2-deep but I really like our overall mix of experience, talent, and the infusion of true sophmores, RS freshmen, and true frosh. While he may be out at safety, the presence of Minkah is huge.

gtgilbert · Feb 8, 2017

The Ols said:
Didn't we give D.Henry a crack @ linebacker!!!

I knew I forgot someone!

gtgilbert · Feb 8, 2017

TiderMan said:
I completely understood where you were coming from. I have figured all along that if we were thin at corner, Saban would convert someone that was already playing another position such as WR, RB, etc. Too bad others on here had to try and make something out of this that wasn't there. Coach Bryant used to take All State QB's and turn them into RB's, CB's and Safeties. I am sure Saban can do the same no matter what they played in high school.

ok - look through the roster and figure out which WR you think coach should try out as a corner. anyone? How about RB? Anyone? any other spot?

As I said in another post, the staff has and will continue to move players to where they can be the most successful or we have a need if it makes sense, but we've already got all the corner types on the roster practicing at corner. further, corner is likely one of the hardest position moves to make other than QB due to the uniqueness of the skillset needed.

I like the bryant analogy though, and it still holds true. We've got a bunch of former QBs playing different spots on the roster - 2 at RB (clark, jacobs), one CB (carter), one S (harrison), and one (former) WR (adarius) with another slated to start out as a WR (townsend) in the incoming class. it's common, especially at mid-size and smaller schools, that the best athlete ends up as the QB even if they aren't cut out as a QB in college and their long term position at the next level will be something else they have the skillset for.

day-day · Feb 8, 2017

gtgilbert said:
ok - look through the roster and figure out which WR you think coach should try out as a corner. anyone? How about RB? Anyone? any other spot?

As I said in another post, the staff has and will continue to move players to where they can be the most successful or we have a need if it makes sense, but we've already got all the corner types on the roster practicing at corner. further, corner is likely one of the hardest position moves to make other than QB due to the uniqueness of the skillset needed.

I like the bryant analogy though, and it still holds true. We've got a bunch of former QBs playing different spots on the roster - 2 at RB (clark, jacobs), one CB (carter), one S (harrison), and one (former) WR (adarius) with another slated to start out as a WR (townsend) in the incoming class. it's common, especially at mid-size and smaller schools, that the best athlete ends up as the QB even if they aren't cut out as a QB in college and their long term position at the next level will be something else they have the skillset for.

Gene Jelks?

IMALOYAL1 · Feb 8, 2017

Brother Oliver had DB's that played RB, WR, & DB in HS. Most kids play on both sides of the ball in High School if they are good both ways, especially small schools. It's as much about how the recruiting services like to rate kids from high school as anything. Fast athletic kids can play numerous positions, so sometimes get the athlete stamp.

I'm probably way off on this...but I could have sworn I read we had around 16 kids last year that could play in the defensive backfield?

If you can become a really good cover guy in college your chances of getting a shot at the NFL seems better than a receiver just going by how many enter the draft each year.

gtgilbert · Feb 8, 2017

IMALOYAL1 said:
Brother Oliver had DB's that played RB, WR, & DB in HS. Most kids play on both sides of the ball in High School if they are good both ways, especially small schools. It's as much about how the recruiting services like to rate kids from high school as anything. Fast athletic kids can play numerous positions, so sometimes get the athlete stamp.

I'm probably way off on this...but I could have sworn I read we had around 16 kids last year that could play in the defensive backfield?

If you can become a really good cover guy in college your chances of getting a shot at the NFL seems better than a receiver just going by how many enter the draft each year.

There were over 20 listed as DB, but that includes safeties who might not be able to play CB and walkons.

TIDE-HSV · Feb 8, 2017

Re the position conversion, Edelman for the Pats played QB all the way to the NFL...

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