Syrian refugee charged with multiple assaults involving underaged girls in Canada

bama_wayne1

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Jun 15, 2007
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This can't be true they're all such nice guys.....fleeing for their lives from evil people.....
 

Bazza

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Oct 1, 2011
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It all boils down to which has the worst downside.

Periodic terrorist attacks.

Or inconveniencing those who get caught up in the Islamic terrorism but are innocent.

You can't have it both ways, it appears.

IMHO, there's no way anyone can guarantee 100% to stop terrorist attacks.

No way.

Better vetting seems to make the most sense. We're already doing it at the airports with TSA and at border crossings with border patrol. We just need to make improvements with that process.

I scanned through the article - but didn't see any reference to the vetting system of this man who did the attack. I would start with that, if I were in charge - and see if improvements could be made.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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Terrorist attacks in the U.S. since 9/11. Link with data set

So all the black on white attacks which are predominately hate crimes are not actually captured as left wing or the cop killings other than Dallas yet the one in Pennsylvania by the white dude who ambushed the PA State Trooper is "right wing" though. Interesting certain things are not classified as "terroristic" in nature.
 

CharminTide

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So all the black on white attacks which are predominately hate crimes are not actually captured as left wing or the cop killings other than Dallas yet the one in Pennsylvania by the white dude who ambushed the PA State Trooper is "right wing" though. Interesting certain things are not classified as "terroristic" in nature.
There is no consensus definition for what constitutes a terrorist attack, or mass shooting, or hate crime, or a number of other related terms. Hence why I linked to the data set for anyone interested.

Although I find it interesting that you contend the relative proportion of radicalized Jihadist terrorist attacks should actually be decreased by including non-Jihadist attacks that weren't captured in this analysis.
 

day-day

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It appears that there are some tools in use to help mitigate jihadist attacks. Proper vetting of refugees and immigrants is one that may need improvement. Just because there are people killing Americans who fall outside of this umbrella does not mean we should ignore it.
 

Bama Reb

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Nov 2, 2005
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It all boils down to which has the worst downside.

Periodic terrorist attacks.

Or inconveniencing those who get caught up in the Islamic terrorism but are innocent.

You can't have it both ways, it appears.

IMHO, there's no way anyone can guarantee 100% to stop terrorist attacks.

No way.

Better vetting seems to make the most sense. We're already doing it at the airports with TSA and at border crossings with border patrol. We just need to make improvements with that process.
There is one way that evidently no one has yet to consider. You make the punishment for terrorist attacks so unbelievably horrible that it borders on inhumane. Then you make examples of the first few who dare to carry out such attacks, just to show you're not not afraid to do so.
You won't eliminate all terrorist attacks, but you'll stop enough of them that people will no longer be fearful of them in their everyday lives.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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There is no consensus definition for what constitutes a terrorist attack, or mass shooting, or hate crime, or a number of other related terms. Hence why I linked to the data set for anyone interested.

Although I find it interesting that you contend the relative proportion of radicalized Jihadist terrorist attacks should actually be decreased by including non-Jihadist attacks that weren't captured in this analysis.
I would contend that the powers that be, in this case the Obama administration, defined what was and what was not a terrorist attack based on O's support for the BLM movement which seemed to stir additional police shootings.

Where did I "contend" that the proportion of radicalized jihadist attacks should actually be decreased?. I simply pointed out that the "left wing" attacks, imho, were not captured due to the "radicalization" of group such as BLM that spurred additional police attacks and other civilian-related attacks.

Would you consider the mob action at Berkley as left-wing/terroristic? I mean, it was clearly in response to a so-called right-wing speaker and people were beaten and property was destroyed was it not. If I'm a victim (property owner or actual assault victim) I would consider it terroristic in nature given today's standard.
 

CharminTide

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It appears that there are some tools in use to help mitigate jihadist attacks. Proper vetting of refugees and immigrants is one that may need improvement. Just because there are people killing Americans who fall outside of this umbrella does not mean we should ignore it.
How many of those Jihadist attacks inside the U.S. were conducted by refugees? If any even make the list, it's a vanishingly small number. We already have one of the most extensive immigrant vetting procedures in the world, and it seems to be working quite well. Our problem isn't immigrants or refugees sneaking past the borders, it's the radicalization of U.S. citizens and their easy access to weaponry. And sure, you can profile and monitor citizens with funny-sounding names, brown skin, or non-Christian faith, but that isn't the America I know. You can take away all access to guns, but that isn't the America I know either. And looking at these numbers, wouldn't you have to throw surveillance on white Christian Americans who hold far right ideology, and perhaps minorities within the far left as well? Don't you see the problem here?

In the balance between freedom and security, my fulcrum always tends toward the side of freedom. Trump, Breitbart, and the far right have invented the threat of radicalized immigrants that has no basis in reality. When did America became so blindly craven that we would so willingly sacrifice freedom and not even gain security in the exchange?
 

CharminTide

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Where did I "contend" that the proportion of radicalized jihadist attacks should actually be decreased?. I simply pointed out that the "left wing" attacks, imho, were not captured due to the "radicalization" of group such as BLM that spurred additional police attacks and other civilian-related attacks.
If you increase the denominator and the numerator remains the same, the proportion decreases.
 

Intl.Aperture

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How many of those Jihadist attacks inside the U.S. were conducted by refugees? If any even make the list, it's a vanishingly small number.
That's true, but I think most people's concerns aren't stemming from what has already happened due to refugees but what the situation is in places like Germany and a few other European nations who took in a TON of refugees. I admit I haven't looked at numbers or stats, just reflecting back what I have heard from others.
 

gman4tide

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Is there a difference between refugee and immigrant? Vet the legal immigrants thoroughly and deny EVERY refugee. Seems that would alleviate some issues.
 

CharminTide

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That's true, but I think most people's concerns aren't stemming from what has already happened due to refugees but what the situation is in places like Germany and a few other European nations who took in a TON of refugees. I admit I haven't looked at numbers or stats, just reflecting back what I have heard from others.
I understand that. Fear is the easiest tool of manipulation, and it's being used here to great effect.

The fact is that our refugee vetting has always been far more extensive than Germany's. Being across the Atlantic, we're harder to travel to than Europe, and we've also been more honest about the opportunities for refugees here. I have a friend who works in Germany's immigration office, and he says it's been a nightmare. Merkel made some broad promises at the start of this crisis which have backfired tremendously. Refugees were fleeing to Germany under the impression that they would be able to find a place to live, a job, a life, but there was simply no infrastructure in place for any of that, and certainly not in the volume needed. Many families used their last resources to escape, only to find that there were no opportunities for them in Germany. Then they're stuck, lacking the resources to take their families anywhere else. They feel a promise was broken that stranded they and their families in a German refugee camp without any more future than they had in Syria. That breeds resentment. And fortunately, that is a mistake we have avoided.
 

Intl.Aperture

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I understand that. Fear is the easiest tool of manipulation, and it's being used here to great effect.

The fact is that our refugee vetting has always been far more extensive than Germany's. Being across the Atlantic, we're harder to travel to than Europe, and we've also been more honest about the opportunities for refugees here. I have a friend who works in Germany's immigration office, and he says it's been a nightmare. Merkel made some broad promises at the start of this crisis which have backfired tremendously. Refugees were fleeing to Germany under the impression that they would be able to find a place to live, a job, a life, but there was simply no infrastructure in place for any of that, and certainly not in the volume needed. Many families used their last resources to escape, only to find that there were no opportunities for them in Germany. Then they're stuck, lacking the resources to take their families anywhere else. They feel a promise was broken that stranded they and their families in a German refugee camp without any more future than they had in Syria. That breeds resentment. And fortunately, that is a mistake we have avoided.
This is the conversation that needs to be had.
 

mikes12

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Nov 10, 2005
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There is one way that evidently no one has yet to consider. You make the punishment for terrorist attacks so unbelievably horrible that it borders on inhumane. Then you make examples of the first few who dare to carry out such attacks, just to show you're not not afraid to do so.
You won't eliminate all terrorist attacks, but you'll stop enough of them that people will no longer be fearful of them in their everyday lives.
Many of them are killed in the commission of their terror actions. I know the Chattanooga shooter was. I'm not sure how you punish someone who is dead.

One idea I've thought of (which I don't think would ever be implemented here) would be a citizen sponsor. If you believe we should take in refugees from violent cultures, then you can sponsor one. This would allow them entry, but if they commit a crime, the sponsor will be charged and punished as an accomplice.
 

bama_wayne1

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I think it would be great if all the fighting age men were sent back to their country. They should be fighting for their rights not turning tail and running. It worked pretty well for the United States.
 

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