State of the Union? (SEC)

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
I guess "the people" didn't see that it had gotten to the point where Boulware (#10) was calling out what play we were going to run and moving Clemson's defensive players to the spot it was going to be run.
So Boulware knew the plays. What does that have to do with a passing QB? That's on the coaches to make the adjustments.

The notion that running one more running play (or even three more, four more etc) in the latter parts of the 3rd quarter compared to a passing play would have exhausted that one second left on the clock and we would have won is flawed logic.
It's not as simple as that. Until Bo's injury, Bama was running fairly well. When he got injured, the run game went away instead of trying Harris and Jacobs more. By not trying, we don't even know what the success would have been.

And it's not solely about milking the clock so the last second isn't there for the last play. It would have given the defense more rest, which would have been pretty vital after facing 45 plays in the first half.
 

UntouchableCrew

All-SEC
Nov 30, 2015
1,530
338
102
Personally I think the regression of the SEC is overstated. Is the conference as dominant as it was from 2006-2012? No. But it's still the most talented conference in the country, I think.

I do think coaching is the big issue, and the gap closing between the SEC and other conferences is largely related to good coaching hires from other programs. The B1G bouncing back after a lengthy down period seems to be largely related to hires (Meyer, Harbaugh, Franklin, etc.) and the ACC collectively has had a very good few years as Swinney and Jimbo have recruited exceptionally well. I also think Texas has a homerun hire with Herman and I see them bouncing back in short order.

But SEC land still has the best talent and the highest paying coaching jobs, so it will be hard to supplant as the deepest, best conference. If there's more evidence of regression in 2017 maybe I'll hop on board but up and down the league I'd still bet on the SEC against anyone else head to head.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
187
And it's not solely about milking the clock so the last second isn't there for the last play. It would have given the defense more rest, which would have been pretty vital after facing 45 plays in the first half.
I think that this is the key - when the coaching staff saw the halftime stats, they had to be concerned. Yes, you were having success running the ball in the first half, but on big plays. You had no clock eating drives. You went too fast in the first half, and you didn't slow down in the second half. It was the most unSaban-like game that I have seen on offense since he arrived at Alabama. So, while this has nothing to do with the SEC at large, I really don't expect it to happen again. Saban learns from his mistakes.

For the SEC, and college football at large, yes the offenses have changed - but success still begins and ends at the LOS. Clemson has no chance in that game, even with Watson at QB, if not for their great play along the LOS. Look at Ole Miss last year. Great QB and skill players on offense, but terrible play on the LOS on both sides of the ball. How did that work out for them?
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,562
18,325
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
*So Boulware knew the plays. What does that have to do with a passing QB? That's on the coaches to make the adjustments.

It's not as simple as that. Until Bo's injury, Bama was running fairly well. When he got injured, the run game went away instead of trying Harris and Jacobs more. By not trying, we don't even know what the success would have been.

And it's not solely about milking the clock so the last second isn't there for the last play. It would have given the defense more rest, which would have been pretty vital after facing 45 plays in the first half.
*It has everything to do with the passing game. The inability to pass the ball enabled Clemson to crowd the box and narrow the plays they had to defend in half. It's what forced all those three and outs. We really simplified the game for Clemson's defense due to not being able to throw them out of stacking the box.

I agree about not trying Harris and Jacobs more. I didn't understand that either. But,if we would have been able to get more out of the quarterback position in the way of passing, our offense would have been more balanced and Clemson wouldn't have been able to stack the box. If I remember correctly, in the second half, Clemson was getting a lot of penetration in the second half on our running plays that they were in the first half. Even before Bo got hurt.

My comments about the passing game is not an indictment or criticism of Hurts. My stance on his performance all year is glowing marks. But a true freshman is a true freshman and it caught up with our offense.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
*It has everything to do with the passing game. The inability to pass the ball enabled Clemson to crowd the box and narrow the plays they had to defend in half. It's what forced all those three and outs. We really simplified the game for Clemson's defense due to not being able to throw them out of stacking the box.

I agree about not trying Harris and Jacobs more. I didn't understand that either. But,if we would have been able to get more out of the quarterback position in the way of passing, our offense would have been more balanced and Clemson wouldn't have been able to stack the box. If I remember correctly, in the second half, Clemson was getting a lot of penetration in the second half on our running plays that they were in the first half. Even before Bo got hurt.

My comments about the passing game is not an indictment or criticism of Hurts. My stance on his performance all year is glowing marks. But a true freshman is a true freshman and it caught up with our offense.
Are you wanting to talk them crowding the box or Boulware recognizing the plays? Those aren't the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,562
18,325
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
Are you wanting to talk them crowding the box or Boulware recognizing the plays? Those aren't the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They go hand in hand. The lack of the ability to pass allowed them to crowd the box and begin to hone in on what plays we were running. Or at minimum allowed them to figure out the direction we were running on some plays. At one point in the game Herbsrteit actually pointed it out. Either way, the root of it was from the lack of the ability to effectively pass the ball.
 

BamaInBham

All-American
Feb 14, 2007
4,465
2,110
187
His WRs, OL, D and play calling have to share the blame. Receivers dropped ~5 passes, 2 or 3 of which were on 3rd down and would have kept drives alive. Jalen had ~6 throwaways because the OL was like a sieve at times, even the previously reliable tackles. He would have been 18-27 ~ 200 with no TOs had his offensive teammates done their jobs. The D had already given up 3 TD drives long before the 99 plays and couldn't make one play on Clemson's last 2 drives. Better play calling and better substitution on the DL would have helped too.

I personally don't blame anyone, I'm grateful to all of the players and coaches, but if we are going to lay blame, let's include all significant contributors. I realize that the discussion is centered on QB's and that no one is trying to lay it all on Jalen, but there were many reasons Bama did not win, as most know.
 

BamaInBham

All-American
Feb 14, 2007
4,465
2,110
187
I agree that the SEC's demise has been overstated, though it did drop off. The Big 10's rise was an illusion, illustrated by the 0-5 bowl record by the "best" division in college football, including the humiliating loss by its CFP representative. IMO, they did improve, but nothing like some were claiming - 2 teams in the CFP. Whew. The ACC was the best. It will be interesting to see if they can keep it up. Unlikely.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
They go hand in hand. The lack of the ability to pass allowed them to crowd the box and begin to hone in on what plays we were running. Or at minimum allowed them to figure out the direction we were running on some plays. At one point in the game Herbsrteit actually pointed it out. Either way, the root of it was from the lack of the ability to effectively pass the ball.
They recognized our plays because we were predictable. That's on the coaching staff. We didn't make adjustments at the line. It wouldn't matter if they didn't stack the box if Boulware is jumping up and down telling his guys which way the play was going. The only solution for that is to run a counter to the play to make them pay for believing the play was headed one way.

As mentioned, the WRs dropped several key passes, which isn't the QB's fault. Clemson didn't move the ball well when they weren't catching passes, either. Doubt Clemson fans were saying they needed to improve the passing game.

Heck, just go back to the screen pass to Damien Harris. OJ shouldn't have caught it. He did, though. Instead of Damien getting the first down, Alabama had to punt because OJ couldn't get 10 yards. Is that the fault of a bad passing game?
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
187
They recognized our plays because we were predictable. That's on the coaching staff. We didn't make adjustments at the line. It wouldn't matter if they didn't stack the box if Boulware is jumping up and down telling his guys which way the play was going. The only solution for that is to run a counter to the play to make them pay for believing the play was headed one way.

As mentioned, the WRs dropped several key passes, which isn't the QB's fault. Clemson didn't move the ball well when they weren't catching passes, either. Doubt Clemson fans were saying they needed to improve the passing game.

Heck, just go back to the screen pass to Damien Harris. OJ shouldn't have caught it. He did, though. Instead of Damien getting the first down, Alabama had to punt because OJ couldn't get 10 yards. Is that the fault of a bad passing game?
Think about how much Clemson needed to go their way to win that game. It wasn't just Alabama's game plan. It also took some poor execution and a bunch of bad breaks. Now, Clemson's defense certainly put pressure on your offense which helped create some of those bad breaks, but much like the Patriot comeback against the Falcons, had just one or two tiny things swung the other way in that game, Alabama wins.

I wouldn't change a thing based on that game's result. I would simply work to produce better execution.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
B1GTide;2984216[B said:
]Think about how much Clemson needed to go their way to win that game. It wasn't just Alabama's game plan. It also took some poor execution and a bunch of bad breaks.[/B] Now, Clemson's defense certainly put pressure on your offense which helped create some of those bad breaks, but much like the Patriot comeback against the Falcons, had just one or two tiny things swung the other way in that game, Alabama wins.

I wouldn't change a thing based on that game's result. I would simply work to produce better execution.
Oh, I realize it.

From the screen pass to Damien that OJ caught to Hunter Renfroe making a great hustle play to hit Ryan Anderson before he was able to lumber 20 more yards for a TD to Tony Brown missing the tackle on the slip screen that got their offense going in the second quarter.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,562
18,325
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
They recognized our plays because we were predictable. That's on the coaching staff. We didn't make adjustments at the line. It wouldn't matter if they didn't stack the box if Boulware is jumping up and down telling his guys which way the play was going. The only solution for that is to run a counter to the play to make them pay for believing the play was headed one way.

As mentioned, the WRs dropped several key passes, which isn't the QB's fault. Clemson didn't move the ball well when they weren't catching passes, either. Doubt Clemson fans were saying they needed to improve the passing game.

Heck, just go back to the screen pass to Damien Harris. OJ shouldn't have caught it. He did, though. Instead of Damien getting the first down, Alabama had to punt because OJ couldn't get 10 yards. Is that the fault of a bad passing game?
All of our passing woes weren't due to dropped passes or the wrong receiver catching the ball. Yes, it contributed, but those handful of individual plays don't play as crucial of a role if the quarterback position (in this case Hurts) hadn't been in a developmental standstill that began the last quarter of the season. With Jalen's struggles the last quarter of the season every completed pass became more and more crucial/valuable to the entirely of the game. Because you didn't know how many more he was going to hit on. It was one of the main topics of conversation the last quarter of the season. Jalen had a hit a developmental wall the last quarter of the season and our passing game was struggling because of it. Consequently putting pressure on our defense, running game and every single pass thrown. You insert a sophomore Jalen Hurts into that championship game on January 9th and that game is a blowout by halftime, like Notre Dame 2013 title game blowout.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
All of our passing woes weren't due to dropped passes or the wrong receiver catching the ball. Yes, it contributed, but those handful of individual plays don't play as crucial of a role if the quarterback position (in this case Hurts) hadn't been in a developmental standstill that began the last quarter of the season. With Jalen's struggles the last quarter of the season every completed pass became more and more crucial/valuable to the entirely of the game. Because you didn't know how many more he was going to hit on. It was one of the main topics of conversation the last quarter of the season. Jalen had a hit a developmental wall the last quarter of the season and our passing game was struggling because of it. Consequently putting pressure on our defense, running game and every single pass thrown. You insert a sophomore Jalen Hurts into that championship game on January 9th and that game is a blowout by halftime, like Notre Dame 2013 title game blowout.
Bringing this full circle, you would then agree with my earlier post that the QB play in the SEC was down this year compared to 2012-2014 because the QBs were younger and inexperienced?
 
Last edited:

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,562
18,325
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
Bringing this full circle, you would then agree with my earlier post that the QB play in the SEC was down this year compared to 2012-2014 because the QBs were younger and inexperienced?


I think we somewhat already agreed on this earlier in the thread. Our disagreement was regarding whether better quarterback play would have changed the outcome of the title game.


I didn't say anything about it was because of talent. I simply stated the level of quarterback play took a hit compared to previous years. Whether it was due to lack of experience, lack of talent or a little bit of both. Regardless, the quarterback play was subpar across the conference.

Didn't say you said it was because of a lack of talent. I was just posing a question as to why the difference between the two years. Does make a pretty significant difference when you're talking about at least 6 returning starters in one year compared to five guys starting for the team for the first time.
 
Last edited:

ALA2262

All-American
Aug 4, 2007
4,977
393
102
Cumming, GA
Sure aren't hurting for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

"Just one week ago, SEC commissioner Greg Sankey announced that the league’s 14 member schools would share $584.2 million – which comes out to $40.4 million per school.Thus, in that time frame, the revenue that the SEC schools have shared, mostly thanks to football, has increased 40-fold.
Here is a quick look at how the shared revenue has grown over the decades:
1980: $4.1 million
1990: $16.3 million
2000: $73.2 million
2010: $209.0 million
2016: $584.2 million"


5 years ago, SEC schools divvied up $244.0 million; last week, they divvied up $584.2 million

 

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.