Bama Going Back to Our Roots: Prognosticate our Success

BamaMoon

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So from '07 - '13 under CNS we win 3 out of the 7 NCs with a pro-style, balanced run/pass approach with the run setting the stage for the passing game. If you take '07 out of the consideration (which I'd write off as a house cleaning/philosophy changing year) it's 3 out of 6 and without a Tim Tebow throwing darts that only his guys could catch in the SECCG in '08 it's likely 4 out of 6. With CNS's system fully installed we batted .500 in the NC picture (not counting '07).

Most recently, from '14-'16 with a noticeable shift to more spread and hurry up philosophies, we win 1 out of 3 NCs or .333, which ain't bad. Some might argue we were good enough to win it all three years (could say the same about '08, '10, and '13 seasons too). Some might argue we were lucky to win the one we did.

So with a seeming reversal to closer to our previous philosophy, but with college football having adjusted and changed offensively and defensively in the last few years, where do you think that leaves us?

More to the genre of what we do here, which is primarily to speculate, what kind of batting percentage are we looking at over the next 3 years (assuming we stay the apparent new/return to old course during this time)?

What is realistic?

Would you be happy with 1 NC during that time, .333?

I think we'd all be over the moon with 2 and a .667%?

What if we win one or two SECCGs and get to the playoff a time or two but bat .000 in NCs?

It's an off season topic for sure, but what do yall think???
 

RTR91

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Not sure you can properly compare the two periods since we would have played for the title the last three years if we were using the format used in the previous six.
 

BamaMoon

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Not sure you can properly compare the two periods since we would have played for the title the last three years if we were using the format used in the previous six.
I understand it's apples to oranges from that angle.

I also understand that you might argue we over-achieved in some ways in '14 and drastically under-achieved in '13, but we got alot closer to a title in '14 than we did in '13.

Perhaps another way to word this: Will power running/ball control football yield the same championship success now as it did in earlier years under CNS?
 

B1GTide

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I think that they next 6 years will see Alabama and Ohio State with 2 more championships each. The field will get the other 2.
 

GeorgiaTider

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I think that they next 6 years will see Alabama and Ohio State with 2 more championships each. The field will get the other 2.
This would not surprise me at all. I am not sure that coach at Michigan will be around to see the next 6 years.
 

TideEngineer08

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It's just one game. But had we had a more balanced, ball control system in place vs. Clemson, we would have won by 2 scores at least. Our defense had their number in the first half, but were gassed by that time and completely burned out by the 4th quarter. I cannot help but believe we would have been far more successful with an offense that stayed on the field, converted third downs, and allowed the defense to get a breather every now and then.

Now again, that's just one game. Who knows how well we would have done during the regular season? But when you consider the SEC did not produce a team with a better record than 8-4 (excluding us, of course) we likely go 13-0 again without the HUNH element of the offense being in place.

As for the future, Alabama's roster is the deepest and most talented in the SEC by far. It's better than every other roster in the country, and only a few have the pieces in place to compete. Barring injuries in key places, or any bizarre off the field stuff, we will be in the thick of things no matter what offense we run.
 

Tideflyer

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Do I think we`ve seen the last national championship under CNS ? I most assuredly do not. How many? Of course, no clue. Personally, if we win one more under CNS, I think he`ll try to stay long enough to surpass Coach Bryant. While we`re all bitterly disappointed when we lose ( championship games of course hurt a little more ), I`ve tried to temper my disappointment with what I believe is a reality: If you consistently run with the big dogs, as we do, sometimes you`ll do the biting and sometimes you`ll get bit.

Personally, I can live with that. Especially since we`ve bitten a lot more than we`ve been bit !
 

tusks_n_raider

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I think it relies hugely on how well the OL is coached and performs. We had really really REALLY good blocking under Pendry and Stoutland. I was and have never been happy with Cristobal's efforts and with Key we will have to take the wait and see approach.

The run blocking from 2013 to now just hasn't been on par with 2008-2012. I know Henry had a bigtime season in 2015 but a LOT of that was HIM making things happen. He got TOUGH yards up the middle or bounced it outside when things broke down and his freak speed allowed him to do that.....or when the Line WOULD give him a bit of daylight he was GONE. I guess I'm saying if you let Henry play behind any of the 2008-2012 lines he probably has over 3,000 yrds rushing in a season. HE was that good. He made his O-line look better.

Pass Blocking hasn't been great either. It's been more consistent that the run blocking but Sims, Coker, and Hurts have had to do a LOT of scrambling the last few years and have taken Sacks or Losses or ran for some amount of positive yardage after tucking the ball because the pocket collapsed or somebody just flat whiffed on blocking somebody or somebodies.

Also the next 3 years we need whoever is playing QB to actually be able to consistently complete the 'forward pass'. Not this 'pop pass' WR sweep and screen nonsense that is effectively a run that counts as a 'pass'. But REAL passes. 10-15 yrd stuff like slants and digs and outs/ins, mid-range 20-30 yrd passes like crosses(deeper out and in routes) and corner/post passes, AND IF we are running well and go play-action be able to hit those Long Go/Fly/Post/Banana,Wheel routes.

Basically it's how we execute blocking and who is pulling the trigger at QB that will affect how many more NC's we can or will win more than the 'Style' of offense. That's jmo though.

No matter what you've got to Run effectively to setup the Pass(Unless you have a Phenom Passing QB).....and when the Passes are there to complete....and a guy is open waving his hands around the QB has to throw the ball to that open WR/TE/RB.

So whether it's Pro-Style or RPO HUNH or a blend of both.....if we can do the above well....we have a good shot to win 1 or 2 more NC's if CNS is here say 3-5 more years.
 

bamaslammer

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I rarely predict schedules, Alabama has the talent to run the table every season. But so many factors, player development, luck, injuries, coaching decisions obviously can change things.

Defensively we lost a ton of experience and talent in the front 7. this is bad, but not AS bad as losing experience in the secondary. The bulk of the returning experience is back there. The DL seems a bit thin for my taste but we use Linebackers as defensive ends some time and we have a boat load of good linebackers. not experienced linebackers but obcenely talented. Generally as written you can expect 2 to 3 games where we end up having to outscore the other team.

Offensively I'm good with most every position except Quarterback. Like I said 2 to 3 games I expect us to have to duke it out ACC style. I know Hurts has the heart for it, but does he have the talent to pull it off? to me there in lies the big ? I will say this though, if we go back to a pro set the running game has the potential to take mountains of pressure off of who ever is under center. There were times in the past where our run game scared people so badly that they barely even noticed we had a quarterback. I'd like to see us get back to that.
 

BamaMoon

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Tusk, I think a lot of whatever changes will be dictated by O-line play.

Slammer, I agree with your take that the pro-set may take some pressure off of JH...this will be especially true if he has more confidence in his OL protection.
 

RTR91

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I think it relies hugely on how well the OL is coached and performs. We had really really REALLY good blocking under Pendry and Stoutland. I was and have never been happy with Cristobal's efforts and with Key we will have to take the wait and see approach.

The run blocking from 2013 to now just hasn't been on par with 2008-2012. I know Henry had a bigtime season in 2015 but a LOT of that was HIM making things happen. He got TOUGH yards up the middle or bounced it outside when things broke down and his freak speed allowed him to do that.....or when the Line WOULD give him a bit of daylight he was GONE. I guess I'm saying if you let Henry play behind any of the 2008-2012 lines he probably has over 3,000 yrds rushing in a season. HE was that good. He made his O-line look better.

Pass Blocking hasn't been great either. It's been more consistent that the run blocking but Sims, Coker, and Hurts have had to do a LOT of scrambling the last few years and have taken Sacks or Losses or ran for some amount of positive yardage after tucking the ball because the pocket collapsed or somebody just flat whiffed on blocking somebody or somebodies.

Also the next 3 years we need whoever is playing QB to actually be able to consistently complete the 'forward pass'. Not this 'pop pass' WR sweep and screen nonsense that is effectively a run that counts as a 'pass'. But REAL passes. 10-15 yrd stuff like slants and digs and outs/ins, mid-range 20-30 yrd passes like crosses(deeper out and in routes) and corner/post passes, AND IF we are running well and go play-action be able to hit those Long Go/Fly/Post/Banana,Wheel routes.

Basically it's how we execute blocking and who is pulling the trigger at QB that will affect how many more NC's we can or will win more than the 'Style' of offense. That's jmo though.

No matter what you've got to Run effectively to setup the Pass(Unless you have a Phenom Passing QB).....and when the Passes are there to complete....and a guy is open waving his hands around the QB has to throw the ball to that open WR/TE/RB.

So whether it's Pro-Style or RPO HUNH or a blend of both.....if we can do the above well....we have a good shot to win 1 or 2 more NC's if CNS is here say 3-5 more years.
I saw the 2016 OL being pretty good until RG became a revolving door and Cam had his issues. Those two things were the main issues to me. Once Shank went down, the coaching staff struggled to figure out the best replacement for him.

And for all the complaints about Cristobal over the years, the TEs and Ts were much better blockers this year than in previous years. Key had the interior OL, which was pretty good with the exception of the aforementioned RG issues.

It's been said over and over, so I hate to say it again - Stoutland wasn't the best recruiter/evaluator of talent. Mario wasn't working with much until the last two years as the big guys he recruited started playing.
 

gtgilbert

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I saw the 2016 OL being pretty good until RG became a revolving door and Cam had his issues. Those two things were the main issues to me. Once Shank went down, the coaching staff struggled to figure out the best replacement for him.

And for all the complaints about Cristobal over the years, the TEs and Ts were much better blockers this year than in previous years. Key had the interior OL, which was pretty good with the exception of the aforementioned RG issues.

It's been said over and over, so I hate to say it again - Stoutland wasn't the best recruiter/evaluator of talent. Mario wasn't working with much until the last two years as the big guys he recruited started playing.
Shank wasn't that good either though and even without getting in trouble had probably lost his starting spot at the start of the year. Trouble was that cotton can't play guard. That experiment just didn't work. Once kirven got a shot things solidified pretty well. Finding a solid starter there coming out of spring is crucial in my mind.
 

selmaborntidefan

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So from '07 - '13 under CNS we win 3 out of the 7 NCs with a pro-style, balanced run/pass approach with the run setting the stage for the passing game. If you take '07 out of the consideration (which I'd write off as a house cleaning/philosophy changing year) it's 3 out of 6 and without a Tim Tebow throwing darts that only his guys could catch in the SECCG in '08 it's likely 4 out of 6. With CNS's system fully installed we batted .500 in the NC picture (not counting '07).

Most recently, from '14-'16 with a noticeable shift to more spread and hurry up philosophies, we win 1 out of 3 NCs or .333, which ain't bad. Some might argue we were good enough to win it all three years (could say the same about '08, '10, and '13 seasons too). Some might argue we were lucky to win the one we did.

So with a seeming reversal to closer to our previous philosophy, but with college football having adjusted and changed offensively and defensively in the last few years, where do you think that leaves us?

More to the genre of what we do here, which is primarily to speculate, what kind of batting percentage are we looking at over the next 3 years (assuming we stay the apparent new/return to old course during this time)?

What is realistic?

Would you be happy with 1 NC during that time, .333?
I think we have a 'rough' year by our standards this year. PROBABLY. I hope not, but I suspect we're in a rebuilding year and we start with FSU. I'd rate us the favorite (right now) for 2018. To be fair, I THINK we'll be the favorite in 2017 because we're used to it. It's us and Ohio State. USC MAY bob back to the surface. Washington is a good team, but that's just the catch - getting there is one thing and staying there is another animal entirely.

I think one of the most underrated and under-appreciated aspects of the Dynasty is just how hard it really is to do what we've done. Four championships in seven years and playing for another one - that's never been done in the real football era (let's not go back over the time when bowl games didn't count and the vote was mostly a popularity contest about which team the East Coast media thought was best).

We have an entire team of players who have literally NEVER played a college game where there wasn't a national championship potentially on the line. They NEVER have had the opportunity to pause for a breather. (For those who want to say UTC or CSU, every single one of us holds our breath on injuries - including the guys). We have played ONE game since January 1, 2011 where there wasn't a national title potentially at stake - the 2014 Sugar Bowl vs OU. That is pressure that none of us can even begin to imagine.

My suspicion is we have a game next year where the defense gets torched (growing pains) and possibly lose a close one. ONE loss will still put us in the mix most likely.



I think we'd all be over the moon with 2 and a .667%?

What if we win one or two SECCGs and get to the playoff a time or two but bat .000 in NCs?
The board will be in meltdown and some of our more spoiled fans will put up posts saying "Fire (Name Coach)" and get suspended from TF.


It's an off season topic for sure, but what do yall think???
I think with the expanded playoff that what you're talking about is impossible. Every player will tell you that you can only focus for so long.

The longest NFL winning streak in history is the 2003-04 New England Patriots that won two Super Bowls. They won 21 games in a row. I recall reading an article that quoted Bill Romanowski in 1998 when the Broncos were tearing through opponents en route to a second title. He had played for the 49ers team in 1988-90 that won 18 games and his Broncos wound up winning 18 games. Romo basically said that the pressure was so enormous and the focus so intense that inevitably you could play up to the best of your ability on that day and lose. He basically said that concentrating at that level for that long was impossible.

Do you remember how many games the Patriots won in 2007 before losing? It was 18, and that very stat is why deep down I wondered if the Pats would lose. (And if you saw them in their two playoff games that year, the Patriots looked incredibly vulnerable. In the final regular season game, the Giants led, 28-16, in the third quarter; with four minutes left in the third quarter of the divisional playoff, they led the Jags by a close 21-17; and they beat the Chargers by nine in a game where they had more turnovers and penalties and the yardage was close to the same).


In college, you can win more than 18 games in a row if you're a great team because parity is not like the NFL - so if around the time of that 18th game you draw a couple of easy ones, your players can take it easy (by comparison). However.....


Do you remember what our 18th game was in the recent streak? Arkansas.

Do you remember HOW BAD we looked?
Yes, we won, but the team was disappointed. We turned the ball over in their red zone and Austin Allen blew our pass coverage to bits. (This is why I thought we would lose one of those three back-to-back games of Arky/Vols/ATM before the season began).


And we have a coach who - wisely - isn't going to accept that excuse, but even he himself has said that you cannot play at that level every single game. The expanded playoff hurts repeat opportunities.


Ohio State (2014-15) had a 23-game winning streak. Do you recall their 18th game? A mediocre Indiana team. A team that barely scraped by 3-8 also-ran Southern Illinois. With 10 1/2 minutes left, IU was only down by seven - and Zeke Elliott bailed them out. They won by seven.

And once they got into a game with a team that could rival them in talent with all that pressure? They lost.


I'd rather lose to someone that kinda ticks us off but win the last game for a title than to have another year like last year - where we have it all and lose it in one second.
 

Snuffy Smith

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I think we have a 'rough' year by our standards this year. PROBABLY. I hope not, but I suspect we're in a rebuilding year and we start with FSU. I'd rate us the favorite (right now) for 2018. To be fair, I THINK we'll be the favorite in 2017 because we're used to it. It's us and Ohio State. USC MAY bob back to the surface. Washington is a good team, but that's just the catch - getting there is one thing and staying there is another animal entirely.

I think one of the most underrated and under-appreciated aspects of the Dynasty is just how hard it really is to do what we've done. Four championships in seven years and playing for another one - that's never been done in the real football era (let's not go back over the time when bowl games didn't count and the vote was mostly a popularity contest about which team the East Coast media thought was best).

We have an entire team of players who have literally NEVER played a college game where there wasn't a national championship potentially on the line. They NEVER have had the opportunity to pause for a breather. (For those who want to say UTC or CSU, every single one of us holds our breath on injuries - including the guys). We have played ONE game since January 1, 2011 where there wasn't a national title potentially at stake - the 2014 Sugar Bowl vs OU. That is pressure that none of us can even begin to imagine.

My suspicion is we have a game next year where the defense gets torched (growing pains) and possibly lose a close one. ONE loss will still put us in the mix most likely.





The board will be in meltdown and some of our more spoiled fans will put up posts saying "Fire (Name Coach)" and get suspended from TF.




I think with the expanded playoff that what you're talking about is impossible. Every player will tell you that you can only focus for so long.

The longest NFL winning streak in history is the 2003-04 New England Patriots that won two Super Bowls. They won 21 games in a row. I recall reading an article that quoted Bill Romanowski in 1998 when the Broncos were tearing through opponents en route to a second title. He had played for the 49ers team in 1988-90 that won 18 games and his Broncos wound up winning 18 games. Romo basically said that the pressure was so enormous and the focus so intense that inevitably you could play up to the best of your ability on that day and lose. He basically said that concentrating at that level for that long was impossible.

Do you remember how many games the Patriots won in 2007 before losing? It was 18, and that very stat is why deep down I wondered if the Pats would lose. (And if you saw them in their two playoff games that year, the Patriots looked incredibly vulnerable. In the final regular season game, the Giants led, 28-16, in the third quarter; with four minutes left in the third quarter of the divisional playoff, they led the Jags by a close 21-17; and they beat the Chargers by nine in a game where they had more turnovers and penalties and the yardage was close to the same).


In college, you can win more than 18 games in a row if you're a great team because parity is not like the NFL - so if around the time of that 18th game you draw a couple of easy ones, your players can take it easy (by comparison). However.....


Do you remember what our 18th game was in the recent streak? Arkansas.

Do you remember HOW BAD we looked?
Yes, we won, but the team was disappointed. We turned the ball over in their red zone and Austin Allen blew our pass coverage to bits. (This is why I thought we would lose one of those three back-to-back games of Arky/Vols/ATM before the season began).


And we have a coach who - wisely - isn't going to accept that excuse, but even he himself has said that you cannot play at that level every single game. The expanded playoff hurts repeat opportunities.


Ohio State (2014-15) had a 23-game winning streak. Do you recall their 18th game? A mediocre Indiana team. A team that barely scraped by 3-8 also-ran Southern Illinois. With 10 1/2 minutes left, IU was only down by seven - and Zeke Elliott bailed them out. They won by seven.

And once they got into a game with a team that could rival them in talent with all that pressure? They lost.


I'd rather lose to someone that kinda ticks us off but win the last game for a title than to have another year like last year - where we have it all and lose it in one second.
Your comment about the expanded playoff format makes me wonder - will we ever see an undefeated champion again?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

selmaborntidefan

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Your comment about the expanded playoff format makes me wonder - will we ever see an undefeated champion again?


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Oh, it will most likely happen and probably sooner rather than later. But the thing that has happened is the committee has made clear - rightly in my view - that WINS count more than LOSSES do and despite all the carping there isn't 'really' any conference championship requirement.

That verbiage - to me - is the dumbest weasel clause I've ever seen.

But yeah, a team that loses a game where they have an off day gets a chance to regroup and then you play the two back to back after a rest. Coach Stallings defended the close game with Florida in 1992 by noting that Florida had gotten blown out by the Seminoles and began pulling players in the third quarter so that they could still win the first-ever SEC title game - and he noted that Alabama never had that luxury. Spurrier could say, "Let's forget about it and pack it in and focus on winning the conference next week" while Stallings had to keep his players' noses to the grindstone throughout.

It will happen - but it ain't gonna be easy. The unbeaten team has lost all three years so far and also lost the final game in 2012 and 2011 to the one-loss team. Auburn came within 12 seconds of doing the same in 2013.
 

bamacpa

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It seems to me that if other defenses have done what we have in getting lighter and faster, then a power running team might really be able to exploit some size and strength matchups. We have a stable of runners and a bunch of highly recruited linemen. Let's pound away !
 

CajunCrimson

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It seems to me that if other defenses have done what we have in getting lighter and faster, then a power running team might really be able to exploit some size and strength matchups. We have a stable of runners and a bunch of highly recruited linemen. Let's pound away !
Something to be said for being ahead of the changes. TEs had disappeared from football (for the most part) with the advent of the spread. They came roaring back a few years ago.

Here's the thing. Basketball used to be a game of positions that were more or less dictated by your height. 5'9"-6'3" you were a 1 or 2. 6'4"-6'8" you were a 3. 6'7"-6'10" you were a 4. 6'9+ you were a 5. Now there are five guys on the court, all of similar size at nearly every position, and it's skill that determines your position. The 5'9"-6'2" guys are nearly gone from the Pro Game.

Football is following that path. Receivers are bigger than tight ends from 20 years ago. Safeties are the size of LBs in the 90s. LBs are bigger than DEs from that era, etc. it's getting to be a big man's game.

My point is...is that power football as we knew it, is likely gone. Too much speed on the elite teams. And the OL size/speed combo hasn't caught up with the demand yet. Most of those guys have been recruited for defense.
 

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