Yahoo: Tim Williams admits failing multiple drug tests at UA

rgw

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I just really don't care about marijuana. It is only illegal because of the convenience for terrorizing the lower class and ethnic minorities.
 

Tideflyer

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I think it all goes back to how a person is raised. There`s something missing.
How you are raised has nothing to do with if you smoke pot. You make decisions that you know are going to affect your life either positively or negatively and if things go south, you have only yourself to blame. TW knew when he smoked weed that if he got caught, it would affect how much money he made in the NFL. During his time at the capstone I don't remember TW having a problem with penalties or forgetting the snap count.
You`re absolutely right, and that wasn`t my point. My comment alludes to a far more global outlook on life, respect for authority, responsibility, etc. The pot in and of itself is of little consequence except that it`s illegal, IMHO.
 

CrimsonEyeshade

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I just really don't care about marijuana. It is only illegal because of the convenience for terrorizing the lower class and ethnic minorities.
The bigger issue has nothing to do with marijuana. It's why a kid was allowed to stay on the team despite repeatedly breaking team rules. Would a player of lesser ability been given as many chances? That's not the way it works in the real world, and only one person determines how it plays out in the locker room.
 

MattinBama

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The bigger issue has nothing to do with marijuana. It's why a kid was allowed to stay on the team despite repeatedly breaking team rules. Would a player of lesser ability been given as many chances? That's not the way it works in the real world, and only one person determines how it plays out in the locker room.
The problem with this line of thought is that none us yet knows what punishments he did or did not have and also don't know what all punishments other players are getting for similar things.
 

Alasippi

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Aug 31, 2007
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So you think Bryant was wrong and should have kicked Namath off the team. That's what I'm getting from this post.
No I think Bryant was absolutely right. He suspended Namath from the team and kicked him out of the athletic dorm because he broke a team rule for drinking in public.
Every assistant coach tried to talk him out of it but one, and that was Gene Stallings.
But I think he was absolutely correct in doing so.
He eventually let him back on the team but didn't allow him to play in the Sugar Bowl.
He got his point across and Namath said it was the best thing that coach could have done.
 

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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The bigger issue has nothing to do with marijuana. It's why a kid was allowed to stay on the team despite repeatedly breaking team rules. Would a player of lesser ability been given as many chances? That's not the way it works in the real world, and only one person determines how it plays out in the locker room.
From UA's student athlete handbook:

 

CrimsonForce

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Dec 20, 2012
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The bigger issue has nothing to do with marijuana. It's why a kid was allowed to stay on the team despite repeatedly breaking team rules. Would a player of lesser ability been given as many chances? That's not the way it works in the real world, and only one person determines how it plays out in the locker room.
Actually, that's exactly how it works in the real world from my experiences. Greater talent = greater level of tolerance. Seen it happen everywhere I've worked. I'm not saying it's right but my experience is that it happens in the "regular" work environments also..
 

B1GTide

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No I think Bryant was absolutely right. He suspended Namath from the team and kicked him out of the athletic dorm because he broke a team rule for drinking in public.
Every assistant coach tried to talk him out of it but one, and that was Gene Stallings.
But I think he was absolutely correct in doing so.
He eventually let him back on the team but didn't allow him to play in the Sugar Bowl.
He got his point across and Namath said it was the best thing that coach could have done.
Imagine how much alcohol would have impacted his life had he not been punished. ;-)
 

tidegrandpa

All-American
No I think Bryant was absolutely right. He suspended Namath from the team and kicked him out of the athletic dorm because he broke a team rule for drinking in public.
Every assistant coach tried to talk him out of it but one, and that was Gene Stallings.
But I think he was absolutely correct in doing so.
He eventually let him back on the team but didn't allow him to play in the Sugar Bowl.
He got his point across and Namath said it was the best thing that coach could have done.
Even though the story is that it (Joe's drinking) happened the week after,some blame the 10-8 loss to Auburn that year on a 'hungover' Joe Willie.

Here's a good commentary on the subject....

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/joe_namath_and_the_old-fashioned_view_of_punishment.html
 

uafan4life

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I just really don't care about marijuana. It is only illegal because of the convenience for terrorizing the lower class and ethnic minorities.
Actually, it's illegal primarily because of its perceived threat to the tobacco industry by its bigwigs back in the day. There was genuine concern that marijuana - which was unregulated at the time; being grown, studied, and used for its medicinal benefits; and just beginning to become mainstream as a recreational drug - would put the tobacco industry out of business. As a result, they spent millions of dollars greasing the palms of politicians and spreading misinformation about the drug in order to promote fear in the general population to support the upcoming legislation from the aforementioned, greasy-palmed politicians.

Once the proceeding began, medical professionals showed up to refute the misinformation and attempt to prevent the banning of the drug - whose medicinal benefits seemed invaluable to the medical community - only to be ignored by the politicians who had already made up their minds behind closed doors.

It's obvious that when you have to resort to spreading such atrociously inaccurate lies about the dangers of a substance, you don't have any real dangers to talk about.
 

LA4Bama

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I just really don't care about marijuana. It is only illegal because of the convenience for terrorizing the lower class and ethnic minorities.
Actually, it's illegal primarily because of its perceived threat to the tobacco industry by its bigwigs back in the day. There was genuine concern that marijuana - which was unregulated at the time; being grown, studied, and used for its medicinal benefits; and just beginning to become mainstream as a recreational drug - would put the tobacco industry out of business. As a result, they spent millions of dollars greasing the palms of politicians and spreading misinformation about the drug in order to promote fear in the general population to support the upcoming legislation from the aforementioned, greasy-palmed politicians.

Once the proceeding began, medical professionals showed up to refute the misinformation and attempt to prevent the banning of the drug - whose medicinal benefits seemed invaluable to the medical community - only to be ignored by the politicians who had already made up their minds behind closed doors.

It's obvious that when you have to resort to spreading such atrociously inaccurate lies about the dangers of a substance, you don't have any real dangers to talk about.
Well, this is a fallacy. Just because something dishonest happened (who knows how many years ago) is no premise at all for today, either way. The fact is while I'm receptive to the arguments for decriminalizing MJ, nobody should think it is obviously harmless. I have seen plenty of people, especially students in college, flame out from overuse. I think recreational use is probably pretty harmless, but plenty of young folks, past and present, seem to follow the wake and bake, smoke weed every day, and double before class protocol. Constant and perpetual drug use among young people is pretty common here in CA and it is a real problem. The MJ available in stores (remember we have weed stores in CA) and on the street is incredibly potent now. I also have some friends who benefit from use -- it truly helps them on some level. But that does not mean it has no negative consequences. It remains a trade off, even for a responsible user.

I have no problem with how the school dealt with Tim's situation. Glad it wasn't ignored; glad it wasn't turned into a media event to make an example of him. Is it that hard to believe that common sense prevailed and something appropriate really was done? Upon what evidence can someone claim TW received special treatment because he's talented? Goodness, what a leap. Maybe try the friendlier interpretation, that they gave him proper counseling because they care about him as a member of the community. All the moralizing and subtly sadistic calls for public shaming are pretty unattractive. At worst what TW did was a minor misdemeanor.... At worst!
 

uafan4life

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...I have seen plenty of people, especially students in college, flame out from overuse. I think recreational use is probably pretty harmless, but plenty of young folks, past and present, seem to follow the wake and bake, smoke weed every day, and double before class protocol. Constant and perpetual drug use among young people is pretty common here in CA and it is a real problem...
And this, as a counter-argument to my statement, is a fallacy itself.

The problem you mentioned isn't caused by the object itself - the marijuana - but rather by the behavior which merely utilizes that object. Remove marijuana and replace it with any other number of things, e.g., other drugs such as alcohol, sex, etc., and the problem still exists and is the same. In your scenario, marijuana didn't cause the problem and, in fact, isn't the problem; it's merely a symptom of the problem.

Which was exactly my point: while marijuana is often used by people with problems, marijuana - in and of itself - rarely if ever causes problems.
 

B1GTide

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Which was exactly my point: while marijuana is often used by people with problems, marijuana - in and of itself - rarely if ever causes problems.
Unless it is over-used. I have seen 2 instances in my personal life of friends who were perfectly healthy, physically and mentally, but who simply smoked too much weed and ended up hospitalized for schizophrenia. Both recovered within a few days when marijuana was no longer available. Both have been perfectly healthy since - both gave up mj after this happened to them.

Not a huge sample size, but I wouldn't ignore those kinds of occurrences.
 

CrimsonEyeshade

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Actually, that's exactly how it works in the real world from my experiences. Greater talent = greater level of tolerance. Seen it happen everywhere I've worked. I'm not saying it's right but my experience is that it happens in the "regular" work environments also..
That was my point, too. Sorry it wasn't clear.
 

LA4Bama

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And this, as a counter-argument to my statement, is a fallacy itself.

The problem you mentioned isn't caused by the object itself - the marijuana - but rather by the behavior which merely utilizes that object. Remove marijuana and replace it with any other number of things, e.g., other drugs such as alcohol, sex, etc., and the problem still exists and is the same. In your scenario, marijuana didn't cause the problem and, in fact, isn't the problem; it's merely a symptom of the problem.

Which was exactly my point: while marijuana is often used by people with problems, marijuana - in and of itself - rarely if ever causes problems.

I love it when people try to use logic but suck at it. It's great for a laugh. A fallacy is a bad inference -- yours involved some version of the genetic fallacy -- "The genetic fallacy (also known as the fallacy of origins or fallacy of virtue) is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on someone's or something's history, origin, or source rather than its current meaning or context." Please which fallacy did I use?

Your claim, that there are no dangers of MJ to talk about hardly needs to be "disproven", but if you like, it can be disproven by your own admission, namely, that it can be abused. That which can be abused surely has some dangers worthy of being talked about.

You are correct only this far, that neither alcohol nor MJ cause a person to consume them. After that, what you are saying is hard to take seriously. This reminds me of the guns don't kill people, people kill people argument except applied badly. It is definitely true that people choose to pull the trigger, and in that sense it is people who kill people. But not even the most ardent gun's rights activist would be so silly as to say the bullet wasn't the cause of death. Of course alcohol causes its effects, and so does MJ. That's why we use them... they work.

Saying MJ doesn't cause any problems is foolish. Of course I think many forms of substance abuse have deeper or prior causes like emotional problems. Then again, sometimes irresponsible young people just make bad choices. And sometimes responsible people choose a course of action which is good in itself but has negative side effects. All of these situations have dangers worthy of being talked about. It's not a one size fits all position. One thing is clear, however, that the use of MJ has plenty of possible pros and cons, all of which are a direct result of the properties of the substance itself, and not merely a property of the choice to use it. It is sheer wishful thinking on your part to imagine a substance that strong with only positive effects. It is not I but the vast experience of humanity that refutes you.

Anyway, this argument about the argument is off topic. I'm satisfied with how Coach and the school handled the situation, I really hope it works out for Tim, that he is effectively free to make good choices, and I think either extreme is pretty much just that... extreme.
 

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