Question: Did Bama B-Ball Over or Under Achieve?

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

CrimsonProf said:

If you think this team under achieved on a macro-level, then your expectations were simply not grounded in reality. If you feel we lost some specifics games that we should have won, that's one thing - but the end result just isn't a surprise to me.

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This pretty much sums it up. Were we disappointed that we didn't make the tournament? Of course.
But did this team disappoint us by not making the tournament? No. Because they weren't a tournament level team but made a pretty good run at it because of effort and coaching.

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

Tides_of_Change said:

Referring to a specific portion of the season would naturally imply "non-macro".

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Then he probably wasn't referring to you.


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Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

seebell said:

We exceeded our preseason predicted conference standing. Overachieved in that respect. Personally, I think we slightly underachieved.

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Even though I kinda sorta agree with this, since you said it...................I just can't bring myself to admitting that.
:biggrin2:

(Don't worry: it's a joke, and he knows it. He better, or I will call him a.................oh, ah, wait this isn't NS. Never mind.)

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

I get the point about free throws but there's a fallacy there - no guarantee things would have played out for a victory.


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Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

The biggest blunder on the season IMO are the 2 Auburn losses. AU is a bad team, should have been able to easily win those games, at least split but, to get swept by the 11th ranked team in the SEC was just very disappointing. Outside of that I thought it was a decent year with a lot of potential on the horizon. I know it seems like that has been said for years now but, I think it is really true. I really, really love CAJ, love is passion, love his energy, love his commitment to the program. I think he is a special coach and I don't think it will be too much longer before he really gets things rolling.

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

RollTide1017 said:

The biggest blunder on the season IMO are the 2 Auburn losses. AU is a bad team, should have been able to easily win those games, at least split but, to get swept by the 11th ranked team in the SEC was just very disappointing. Outside of that I thought it was a decent year with a lot of potential on the horizon. I know it seems like that has been said for years now but, I think it is really true. I really, really love CAJ, love is passion, love his energy, love his commitment to the program. I think he is a special coach and I don't think it will be too much longer before he really gets things rolling.

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He is certainly a gust of fresh air compared to the rest of the SEC's basketball coach recyclables (and I would include Conzo Martin in the recyclables that Avery with his energy, passion and promotional elan leapt over just by taking the 'Bama job).

On the other hand, the two losses to All-Bran did enable "Pearly White Lies" to declare he's got a program on the rise - and absolutely certain to get there if he can only keep his uber-talented staff from taking D1 head coaching jobs in the off-season...

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

I was disappointed by how the season ended (losing to Tennessee in a game we should have won), losing to the barn twice, and then the dud of an effort in the NIT game. But overall, we improved from a year ago, and there is much to be hopeful about for next season.

Looking back over the year, it's difficult to pick out the several games that we ought to have won, which ultimately would have made the difference in making the NCAAs. However, it's also true that you can find several wins that could have easily been Ls.

I like the overall direction of the program. I would just love to see us live in that space occupied by the likes of Kentucky and Duke. But if that's not realistic, I do think the next level behind is, and I think we're capable of a Final Four run as a program. Which means we're capable of winning a basketball NC.

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

True that the 2 barn losses hurt but they were a matchup nightmare for us. As bad a TEAM as they have, they have some really good young, high energy, athletic guys who we just couldnt keep up with. We will even that out a little with sexton, giddens and petty

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

Next year is going to be exciting. Hard to process feelings when you go out in the first game in the tournament. Stinging loss! I do agree - they started the tournament too quickly.

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

CajunCrimson said:

I think we have underachieved for nearly 10-12 years now. Watching Richmond, and now Princeton, ND, Wichita State, etc.... there are tons of kids we could recruit and get, that are NOT "superior athletes" but maybe can shoot, play D, pass effectively, and are smart basketball players.

I thought after 2 years of CAJ -- our offense would resemble something "official" -- but most of the time it still resembles what we had before. Stand around, stare.....

I don't know what the answer is. But, I have a feeling this "crackerjack" recruiting class coming in -- won't be as "instant success" as we want. But, it could just be that I"m so far past the point of optimism -- I've got nothing left to "hope" with.

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Yes, I would agree you're past the point of optimism.


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Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

You can argue they overachieved because of the limited talent they have on the roster. And they definitely were limited at certain positions in talent. But one way you overcome that is by supreme effort. The kind of effort they gave during the SEC tournament. Especially against Kentucky, they just looked different. They played with more energy and more forcefulness. So everyone gets excited and says they're improving and they're going to make some noise in the NIT. But then they come out against Richmond standing around and lacking focus and energy. And that happened several times throughout the year. That's what makes you want to say they underachieved. And the fact that they just don't learn to do certain fundamental things. The color guy mentioned it during the Richmond game when he asked where are the closeouts on the three point shots. Bama would come out with their hands down shuffling their feet. You have to have hands up and run to the ball and get them off of the three point line. And so Bama was a very poor perimeter defensive team against teams that could shoot the 3 decently. And that has nothing really to do with talent. And players that shot free throws poorly most of the year shot them well in games like South Carolina in the SEC tournament. So it was possible for them to shoot them well. The lack of focus, energy, flow, and fundamentals in certain areas makes me say they slightly underachieved when you consider the talent on the SEC teams they played.

We're fortunate we played Missouri, MSU, and LSU twice in the SEC schedule. The other double opponent was Auburn. We played the four worst teams twice. Imagine if we would have played Kentucky, Florida, South Carolina, and Arkansas twice (we did play SC twice but one was in the SEC tournament). That helps explain the SEC record a little bit. We went 12-9 in SEC games and 7 of those wins were against the three worst teams in the league. We went 0-2 against the fourth worst team in the league. Two of the wins came against an upper echelon team that was a good matchup for us, anemic on offense and defensively tough. The other wins in conference were against Ole Miss at home on senior night, at home against Vandy before they got hot and while they were playing poorly, and a good road win by 20 points against Georgia. There was nothing impressive about the non-conference results. When you break it down, there's not a lot to say they overachieved.

Did anyone see the Inside Alabama Basketball feature they ran on the SEC Network? It showed a lot of the inner workings of the team around the Georgia game that was at home. I love Coach Johnson's personality and energy and I was expecting to see him really connecting with the players and see them really responding to him. But the part I saw it didn't really look that way. Maybe it's just the personality of this team but there almost seemed to be a disconnect between Coach Avery and the team. Maybe that's why some of these things did not seem to improve.

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

I'd say over achieved, we were picked to finish near the bottom at the beginning of the year and we finished what? 4th? That's exceeding expectations where I come from.

We have to finish in the top 5 in the SEC and make the tourney next year. Have to.

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

I will say this, the SEC sucks. Kentucky is great. Florida and Arkansas are decent to pretty good. But other than that it's a mediocre lot. I say that to say this, we finished 5th this season but there is plenty of reason to believe that we are a few good pieces of the puzzle away from challenging for conference crowns. We weren't really that good this year, yet we made the conference tourney semis and finished 5th overall regular season.

Of course I have no idea how anyone else's recruiting is going except the default assumption that Kentucky will reload as always.

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

Anyone who watched us on a regular basis knew we could not take any team for granted this year. Overall we were more talented than last year, but we had to rely on freshmen as the leaders and you just can't expect miracles out of freshman. The fact is Auburn was a bad match up for us. They have a good big man which we were sorely lacking this year and can shoot the 3really well at times. The 2 things that they do well were our weaknesses, 3 point defense and defending a good big. We also struggled to defend quick guards. See the last Georgia game and the Richmond game. We finished about where I expected for a young team. Young teams tend to be inconsistent which we showed time after time.

I don't expect we'll be in the final 4 next year as some seem to think. Regardless of how good these kids are, they are not likely to be the "Fab Five" any time soon. I takes time to develop chemistry as it did this year. (Just as a side note-I heard we'll be playing a tour in Canada this summer so that should help us.) I think we'll make the tourney and make a mini run maybe to the sweet 16 round assuming the kids are as good as advertised.

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

CajunCrimson said:

I think we have underachieved for nearly 10-12 years now. Watching Richmond, and now Princeton, ND, Wichita State, etc.... there are tons of kids we could recruit and get, that are NOT "superior athletes" but maybe can shoot, play D, pass effectively, and are smart basketball players.

I thought after 2 years of CAJ -- our offense would resemble something "official" -- but most of the time it still resembles what we had before. Stand around, stare.....

I don't know what the answer is. But, I have a feeling this "crackerjack" recruiting class coming in -- won't be as "instant success" as we want. But, it could just be that I"m so far past the point of optimism -- I've got nothing left to "hope" with.

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Cajun--two of these "cracker jack" recruits had a final two of Kentucky or Bama. The other three are MR. Basketball in the state of Alabama and two four star big guys who can absolutely play. I believe Sexton and Wylie will both start immediately at the shooting guards position. Sexton could actually be our starting point guard with Dazon either being our sixth man or moving to the 2 position. Regardless, Ingram, Sexton, Wylie, Key, and a big guy to be named later will be my projected starting five next year and I think we'll play a super fast pace of basketball that will surprise people.
The depth coming off the bench will be starters from this years team. Add it up and we're going to be way better.
Avery knows what it takes, and what that is......is BASKETBALL PLAYERS! The class coming in has incredible athletes who are also great basketball players. Not incredible athletes who hope to learn the game of basketball. And there's your difference between Avery and everybody else in the last 10-12 years.

Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

Alasippi said:

Cajun--two of these "cracker jack" recruits had a final two of Kentucky or Bama. The other three are MR. Basketball in the state of Alabama and two four star big guys who can absolutely play. I believe Sexton and Wylie will both start immediately at the shooting guards position. Sexton could actually be our starting point guard with Dazon either being our sixth man or moving to the 2 position. Regardless, Ingram, Sexton, Wylie, Key, and a big guy to be named later will be my projected starting five next year and I think we'll play a super fast pace of basketball that will surprise people.
The depth coming off the bench will be starters from this years team. Add it up and we're going to be way better.
Avery knows what it takes, and what that is......is BASKETBALL PLAYERS! The class coming in has incredible athletes who are also great basketball players. Not incredible athletes who hope to learn the game of basketball. And there's your difference between Avery and everybody else in the last 10-12 years.

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Petty, not Wylie (he's at Auburn)

The big man will be Daniel Giddens. Avery has said he would like to have Giddens and Hall on the court together, so DH may still start.


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Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

Alasippi said:

You can either shoot a basketball or you can't. The mechanics are developed by elementary school teacher/coaches, middle school coaches, and to some degree, high school coaches who try as hard as they can to help the player. But if you get to the collegiate level and can't shoot free throws, practice all you want. By that time, if the mechanics aren't there no coach can help you.

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Interesting, this is not what my coach preached to us. I guess I need to lighten up a bit. I guess I will just feel sorry for our players the next time I watch them go 5 for 17 from the FT line.

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Re: Did Bama B-Ball Overor Under Achieve?

there are NBA players making millions of dollars a year to play the game that just arent good FT shooters. it's not like CAJ isnt trying. Some just cant make em. Just like FG kickers in football. Sometimes you either got it or you dont. Also, just for added discussion from above, i'd rather not see Hall and Giddens on the court together. Hall is way too limited on offense and he'd probably get ate alive by opposing 4's. He'd be great with the 2nd unit IMO.. and i agree with Sip on Ingram. I'd love to see him at the 2 and let Sexton run the point.