Anyone have experience with Legalzoom estate planning?

NationalTitles18 · Mar 16, 2017

I am wondering if anyone has experience with legalzoom for estate planning. A two person bundle includes last wills, financial and healthcare powers of attorney, living wills, and unlimited number of 30 minute legal consults for 1 year. I am planning on buying the package this weekend for my mom and dad. My sister will be the executor and attorney in fact (or whatever the correct terms are). My sister is trustworthy and I have every reason to believe she will act in my parent's best interest. Time and money are a factor. I am paying for the documents and before I do I wanted to make sure it is money well spent and truly is a bargain. Please share your thoughts and experiences on this service.

TIDE-HSV · Mar 16, 2017

NationalTitles16 said:
I am wondering if anyone has experience with legalzoom for estate planning. A two person bundle includes last wills, financial and healthcare powers of attorney, living wills, and unlimited number of 30 minute legal consults for 1 year. I am planning on buying the package this weekend for my mom and dad. My sister will be the executor and attorney in fact (or whatever the correct terms are). My sister is trustworthy and I have every reason to believe she will act in my parent's best interest. Time and money are a factor. I am paying for the documents and before I do I wanted to make sure it is money well spent and truly is a bargain. Please share your thoughts and experiences on this service.

Speaking as someone who's done estate planning for over 50 years, I find the quality of their documents inferior. I know your location, but we should be able to find someone in the area with expertise rather than "Size 42, just right for you (and everybody)"...

NationalTitles18 · Mar 16, 2017

TIDE-HSV said:
Speaking as someone who's done estate planning for over 50 years, I find the quality of their documents inferior. I know your location, but we should be able to find someone in the area with expertise rather than "Size 42, just right for you (and everybody)"...

My location is immaterial. Everyone involved with this lives just south of B'ham. The only thing that concerns me is if I can be a backup in case something happens to my sister. Not sure if this particular service has that capability. I am concerned about the cost and my dad's poor mobility. It would have to be a one shot visit to get it done for him. A 2 person bundle is $249. If there are legitimate holes in these documents I would be willing to spend a bit more.

NationalTitles18 · Mar 17, 2017

And in case it makes a difference: It should be a relatively simple plan. For better or worse, there won't be much to actually leave. The most important part to me is the POA's so my sister can step in and get the finances under control. We have a sibling who is trouble, but has no resources to hire a lawyer or file suit.

TIDE-HSV · Mar 17, 2017

The docs I've looked at of theirs are full of holes. I'll PM you...

Crimson1967 · Mar 17, 2017

Earle...I realize you would have a slight bias, but are there times it is better to do it yourself or use a service like this (for anything, not just an estate plan) rather than hire a lawyer?

TIDE-HSV · Mar 17, 2017

Crimson1967 said:
Earle...I realize you would have a slight bias, but are there times it is better to do it yourself or use a service like this (for anything, not just an estate plan) rather than hire a lawyer?

When it comes to wills, it's usually a lesson in horror. It's just not as simple as it looks. However, if a will does nothing more than appoint a personal representative, forgive bond and inventory and contain a power of sale of real estate, it's done 95% of the job. Unfortunately, getting the wrong lawyer can result in just as much hot water. I'm wrestling with one draftsman disaster right now. The decedent was worth several million. She left a will which barely gave her two surviving grandsons anything. (I represent the grandson who was appointed administrator with will annexed because both named PRs were deceased.) There was a residuary clause naming 11 people and it said that each had to survive the decedent. IOW, it was not to pass down to descendants. However, none of the traditional language which would have indicated a class was intended, such as "as a class" or language indicating the survivors were to receive anything which would have gone to other members named who predeceased the decedent. Well, the decedent, despite Alzheimer's, survived to 101. The last person to predecease the decedent died only last October. What if she had survived the decedent's death? Would she get it all or only one eleventh (still worth almost a half million). Since the law is settled that, in the case of total failure of a residuary clause, all property falls to intestacy (to the next of kin), I'm OK. However, until I could ascertain all had passed, it appeared I might have to ask the circuit court for a will construction. So, the wrong lawyer can do damage also, but the odds are better than with self-done. The few docs I've read from Zoom just looked like they hadn't been thought through. Reading, you instantly thought "But what if..."

seebell · Mar 17, 2017

NationalTitles16 said:
And in case it makes a difference: It should be a relatively simple plan. For better or worse, there won't be much to actually leave. The most important part to me is the POA's so my sister can step in and get the finances under control. We have a sibling who is trouble, but has no resources to hire a lawyer or file suit.

I don't see a problem with LegalZoom if the situation is a simple one. I just paid $300 to a lawyer for a will for myself.
One caveat re the POA. My MIL recently became demented and unable to manage her affairs. My wife had the POA. MIL has substantial cash assets in the bank. Children were not listed on the accounts. The bank, because the POA was not in effect until health/incompetence, refused to honor the POA without proof of incompetence. We even had a letter of incompetence from the nursing home doctor but the bank wouldn't accept it. Finally had to hire a lawyer and have a court hearing and have my wife appointed the legal guardian. Cost us $3000.

My parents, before they passed away, added me to all their accounts and we just kept on going with no problem. Probate cost thru a lawyer was $500 which I considered well spent.

BamaSC · Mar 18, 2017

My wife and I used a local attorney for our will/POA/living will. It wasn't much more than LegalZoom and we were able to sit down and describe exactly what we wanted. He made sure to direct us to reflect this in the beneficiaries in our life insurance, banking, and investment accounts as those can possibly supersede the will. Apparently it's important for everything to say the same things else things could get ugly. I'm sure Earle could speak to that.

That said, I used LegalZooom to set up my LLC and that went really well.

NationalTitles18 · Mar 18, 2017

Thanks to everyone for their input so far. I also looked at Quicken/NOLO estate planning software (and similar) or even off the shelf papers at Staples just to get something in place. I am in a holding pattern for now and have given my sister the mission of recording all assets beginning with the somewhat meager real estate, car, insurance policies, and then branching out to cover everything else. The means and holdings are rather meager but there are some complexities involved. We have to gather facts so we will be ready to act whichever path we decide. We don't want to screw this up. I only wish this had been done a long time ago. It has me thinking about how best to plan my own estate so I'd like to begin working on that pretty soon after we get this settled.

Anyone have thoughts on a living trust? Looks like that keeps things out of probate, but the holdings have to be titled in the name of the trust which might mean there can't be a mortgage or other lien in place to do that. Just something I'd like to learn about. Few want to deal with these matters until it's too late or last minute. I have a pretty good term life policy that might be best handled that way but I really have no idea. I know "rich people" do this kind of thing all the time. I guess before I didn't have as much to worry over as there wasn't much at all, period. I know that insurance gives me peace of mind and imagine good estate planning would make me feel even better.

2003TIDE · Nov 14, 2017

Just curious what did you decide on for this? Wife an I are looking for something similar. We are having a kid early next and setting up wills, power of attorney, etc are on our to do list.

92tide · Nov 14, 2017

2003TIDE said:
Just curious what did you decide on for this? Wife an I are looking for something similar. We are having a kid early next and setting up wills, power of attorney, etc are on our to do list.

we just re-set up our will through an attorney here in georgia (we did our first rounds a few years back via legal zoom). it costs a little bit, but as we looked around we started to hear that these types of will generation programs can leave a lot of little things uncovered that could make things complicated for the survivors.

4Q Basket Case · Nov 14, 2017

If you're getting into contingent executors, living trusts and stuff other than, "Everything to my wife," you need a good estate attorney.

Trust me, there are few things as expensive as cheap legal documents that purport to solve complex issues.

I'm not an attorney. Mrs. Basket Case is, but she does ERISA work, not estates. You would not believe how badly non-experts can foul up, and the wide-ranging impact they can have for decades / generations into the future.

Think of it this way: would you choose a surgeon based on price? Of course not ...mainly because of the gravity of messing up. Don't choose estate docs that way either.

TIDE-HSV · Nov 14, 2017

seebell said:
I don't see a problem with LegalZoom if the situation is a simple one. I just paid $300 to a lawyer for a will for myself.
One caveat re the POA. My MIL recently became demented and unable to manage her affairs. My wife had the POA. MIL has substantial cash assets in the bank. Children were not listed on the accounts. The bank, because the POA was not in effect until health/incompetence, refused to honor the POA without proof of incompetence. We even had a letter of incompetence from the nursing home doctor but the bank wouldn't accept it. Finally had to hire a lawyer and have a court hearing and have my wife appointed the legal guardian. Cost us $3000.

My parents, before they passed away, added me to all their accounts and we just kept on going with no problem. Probate cost thru a lawyer was $500 which I considered well spent.

I missed this the first time through. This is called a "springing" POA. These can function well, in cases where the principal, for whatever reason, doesn't feel he/she can trust the agent enough for it to be unconditional. However, the only way they can function properly is if the mechanism (3 docs, etc.) is spelled out so that there doesn't have to be a court proceeding to determine incompetence. Without that mechanism, it's worthless, requiring the same court proceeding as if it didn't exist. It's sad, but most such POAs are drafted without the draftsman even being aware of the downstream consequences. The cookie-cutter online documents from LegalZoom and the like usually contain many such holes...

NationalTitles18 · Nov 15, 2017

2003TIDE said:
Just curious what did you decide on for this? Wife an I are looking for something similar. We are having a kid early next and setting up wills, power of attorney, etc are on our to do list.

In the end it didn't matter much, as when my dad passed my mom was still here to make decisions. There really isn't much concern about assets and we will see about my mom's will as that is next on the agenda (or placing her assets in a trust). My brother is the problem child (literally), so my only concern is making things hard enough for him to give up as he has no money for a lawyer and her assets won't be worth a lawyer's time.

I'd take Earle's advice, as this is his area of expertise. If you have significant assets ( a house, savings, and the like) then invest wisely in legal services too.

bama_wayne1 · Nov 15, 2017

Be kind to your children and take care of this for yourselves before your children need it. I have been given the responsibility of making my Mom's health decisions without having any power over finance. It is expensive and time consuming to deal with a conservatorship and guardianship when the most liquid asset is a 401K or IRA. There are very necessary laws that protect those assets but Nursing facilities are very expensive while you wait. My Mom suffers from Alzheimer's.

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Anyone have experience with Legalzoom estate planning?

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