Friday Five: Tortured Fan Bases

81usaf92

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Good coaching has eluded the Huskers for many years. Nebraska has the fourth ranked recruiting class in the B1G year after year. In West Division look at these recruiting averages: Nebraska 27, Wisconsin 36, Northwestern 51, Iowa 53, Illinois 57, Minnesota 58 and Purdue 69. Yes, that is correct. Nebraska should win the west every year but instead they let Wisconsin and Iowa keep whipping them. That was why I was shocked at the Mike Riley hire. Nebraska has settled into mediocrity and seems to like it there.
No good coach in their right mind would ever go to Nebraska. Nebraska has recruiting problems ten times worse than Tennessee, but with more unrealistic expectations from an obnoxious fan base.

Their in state quality is horrible. 80% of the state population is within a 45 minute radius. For them to be great they need to invade Missouri in recruiting. Ever since Pinkle and Houston Nutt started getting the recruits Stoops didn't, Nebraska went down hill.

Living in Nebraska for 6 years I can tell you that their fan base is one of the most obnoxious I have ever seen. They are way more connected to their team than any other I've ever seen as well. That is a huge problem. Pelini was a hot head, but if you would've seen the crap he had to put up with due to how easily a non alumnus could get in his office and say what he thinks then I think some of y'all would change some of what you think about him.

It also doesn't help that the fan base is among the dumbed as well. They really believed they would win their side of the BIG 10 conference every year. Take into account that they were on the Michigan and MSU side when they first joined. Then they make a fake rivalry amongst their fan base with Wisconsin because Wisconsin was their first big 10 game (and first loss). Ask a Badger fan if Nebraska is a rival and they will say No and give you an odd look.
 
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GrayTide

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Good coaching has eluded the Huskers for many years. Nebraska has the fourth ranked recruiting class in the B1G year after year. In West Division look at these recruiting averages: Nebraska 27, Wisconsin 36, Northwestern 51, Iowa 53, Illinois 57, Minnesota 58 and Purdue 69. Yes, that is correct. Nebraska should win the west every year but instead they let Wisconsin and Iowa keep whipping them. That was why I was shocked at the Mike Riley hire. Nebraska has settled into mediocrity and seems to like it there.
Frank Solich played at Nebraska and never coached anywhere else before he was fired after going 59-16 as HC of the Huskers.
 

B1GTide

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And when he left Nebraska he went to Ohio from the MAC and made them winners. He's a very good coach.
He is far from terrible, but I wouldn't go so far as to call him very good. I get that Ohio isn't a great program, even in the MAC, but a very good head coach wins his conference every once in a while. Solich has been the HC for the Bobcats since 2005 and has yet to win the MAC.

He was fired at Nebraska because he won with Osbourne's players and lost when those player moved on. He simply didn't recruit and develop players well enough to make Nebraska fans happy.
 

Redwood Forrest

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As 81usaf92 pointed out Solich was not good enough for Nebraska. I had forgotten about Solich. Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe Nebraska keeps running good coaches off because they are not great coaches?
 

81usaf92

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As 81usaf92 pointed out Solich was not good enough for Nebraska. I had forgotten about Solich. Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe Nebraska keeps running good coaches off because they are not great coaches?
Pelini and Solich weren't bad, but their fan base is like Verucca Salt on Willy Wonka in that they want everything now. Husker fans are a different breed of fans that you would have to see to believe
 

BamaJama17

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They were never in the same program status as the Big Red, but I do think they have a similar problem. A Tide lawyer grad I spoke with four years ago (I was hunting tickets for the Michigan game here in DFW) said the same thing. Basically, Tennessee has a very similar problem to Nebraska - they are bordered by more states than anyone else. Their state is a little less than 7 million people and about 1.3 million of those are in the Memphis area.

The RISE of Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Clemson, South Carolina, Auburn, and ESPECIALLY Alabama all at the same time limits their pickings. The better Georgia is, the harder it is for Tennessee.

I don't think Tennessee will ever be a big deal again, either. They might build a one-year wonder and win the SEC and maybe with a little luck the national title. But they're never going to be able to sustain their late 90s winning total, either. Go back and look - Tennessee's huge rise in the early days of Phil Fulmer happened concurrent with:

a) Alabama being on probation
b) Georgia fumbling through the Ray Goff-Jim Donnan regime
c) Ole Miss being on probation (1995-98)

Look at the Vols records:
1995 - 11-1
1996 - 10-2
1997 - 11-2
1998 - 13-0

Think about this for a moment to give you an idea - Tennessee was 45-5 in that four-year span. The 2009-12 Crimson Tide that won three national titles was 49-5. By record, Tennessee was almost as good as Alabama's crystal dynasty. Even being mentioned in the same breath with that group is astounding. Of course, the problem was that they couldn't beat Florida twice when it counted and they couldn't beat Nebraska.

And without Peyton Manning - does any of this actually happen? And if Ole Miss is NOT on probation, does anyone think Peyton doesn't go to Ole Miss, like Daddy and brother Eli did?

Most dynasties or 'teams that overachieve' can be viewed the same way. Tommy Tuberville's entire Auburn career can be summarized as benefiting from:

a) Alabama serving an even more severe probation
b) Miss State collapsing and winding up on probation

Auburn lost to MSU in 97-98-99-00. They lost to Alabama in 98-99 and should have lost in 97.

Without the sanctions - which to be clear were NOT Tuberville's fault - does anyone think he hangs around after taking a few Iron Bowl losses?

But back to the Vols.

I think that as long as Alabama AND Georgia (if they can get it going) do well, it is going to be VERY difficult for the Vols to rise up again. And for each team that does well at the same time, it's going to be even harder.

Their problem is similar to Nebraska's although they don't have as high to go back to their glory days - at least those anyone can actually remember.
Another fan base we haven't talked much about would be Notre Dame. They haven't won a NC since 1988. They played for one in 2012 and got annihilated. Since 2000 they have had 4 10-win seasons. 0-3 in BCS Bowls. I know they are considered a "Blue Blood" program but I don't see how they will ever return to what they use to be. The right coach yes but the nationwide recruiting (like Nebraska) isn't helping them out anymore like it use to.
 

B1GTide

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Another fan base we haven't talked much about would be Notre Dame. They haven't won a NC since 1988. They played for one in 2012 and got annihilated. Since 2000 they have had 4 10-win seasons. 0-3 in BCS Bowls. I know they are considered a "Blue Blood" program but I don't see how they will ever return to what they use to be. The right coach yes but the nationwide recruiting (like Nebraska) isn't helping them out anymore like it use to.
Yep - They will need a Saban/Meyer type coach to win a championship. They have had great coaches in their past. Could happen.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Another fan base we haven't talked much about would be Notre Dame. They haven't won a NC since 1988. They played for one in 2012 and got annihilated. Since 2000 they have had 4 10-win seasons. 0-3 in BCS Bowls. I know they are considered a "Blue Blood" program but I don't see how they will ever return to what they use to be. The right coach yes but the nationwide recruiting (like Nebraska) isn't helping them out anymore like it use to.
What really astounded me during the 2012 break between the SEC and BCSNCG was how many YOUNG people had no idea how great Notre Dame's history was. ALL their fans unless they came from ND stock literally had NO CLUE that once upon a time Notre Dame was as revered as the Celtics or NY Yankees.

Then I remembered something - in 2012, you had to be about 32 years old to have a significant memory of when they were national champions. They fell off the map after 1993. And while I no doubt have the greatest memory on Tidefans, I was ten when we won the 1979 championship and I BARELY recall anything about it.
 

BamaJama17

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What really astounded me during the 2012 break between the SEC and BCSNCG was how many YOUNG people had no idea how great Notre Dame's history was. ALL their fans unless they came from ND stock literally had NO CLUE that once upon a time Notre Dame was as revered as the Celtics or NY Yankees.

Then I remembered something - in 2012, you had to be about 32 years old to have a significant memory of when they were national champions. They fell off the map after 1993. And while I no doubt have the greatest memory on Tidefans, I was ten when we won the 1979 championship and I BARELY recall anything about it.
By the end of the decade (I don't see ND making the CFB Playoff anytime soon) every ND fan 30 and under will have not been alive when ND last won an NC. At this point there is an entire generation of ND fans who have known nothing but mediocrity.
 

TideEngineer08

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No good coach in their right mind would ever go to Nebraska. Nebraska has recruiting problems ten times worse than Tennessee, but with more unrealistic expectations from an obnoxious fan base.

Their in state quality is horrible. 80% of the state population is within a 45 minute radius. For them to be great they need to invade Missouri in recruiting. Ever since Pinkle and Houston Nutt started getting the recruits Stoops didn't, Nebraska went down hill.

Living in Nebraska for 6 years I can tell you that their fan base is one of the most obnoxious I have ever seen. They are way more connected to their team than any other I've ever seen as well. That is a huge problem. Pelini was a hot head, but if you would've seen the crap he had to put up with due to how easily a non alumnus could get in his office and say what he thinks then I think some of y'all would change some of what you think about him.

It also doesn't help that the fan base is among the dumbed as well. They really believed they would win their side of the BIG 10 conference every year. Take into account that they were on the Michigan and MSU side when they first joined. Then they make a fake rivalry amongst their fan base with Wisconsin because Wisconsin was their first big 10 game (and first loss). Ask a Badger fan if Nebraska is a rival and they will say No and give you an odd look.
It's true that Nebraska has a huge recruiting problem with almost no instate talent to speak of. Still, I think it hurt them badly by leaving the Big 12 for the Big Ten (as far as recruiting goes). Now, you've completely abandoned the state of Texas. Where does Nebraska recruit now? There isn't much talent in Iowa/Wisconsin/Minnesota either. I imagine the state of Illinois has some, but nothing like Texas, and you've already got the instate schools to compete with there, to say nothing of the already intrenched powers of Ohio State and Michigan.

The Big 12 needed to have done a better job setting up its divisions as well as it's cross-division schedules. It's true that in 1996, Nebraska was smack dab in the middle of its heyday under Tom Osborne. They were the 800 lb gorilla in the room, not Texas and certainly not Oklahoma, whom they were routinely destroying by 60 points. Still, putting the Sooners in the opposite division and not protecting the cross-division rivalry between OU and NU was a huge mistake. The Big 12 needed to protect Texas vs. Oklahoma, and it did, but it also needed to protect Oklahoma vs. Nebraska. It didn't and a host of other things did not go the Huskers way and they finally abandoned the league. Now, they're making more money in the Big Ten, but their chances of ever returning to a status even close to their 1996 levels are small indeed.

By the end of the decade (I don't see ND making the CFB Playoff anytime soon) every ND fan 30 and under will have not been alive when ND last won an NC. At this point there is an entire generation of ND fans who have known nothing but mediocrity.
And this is why Notre Dame remaining quasi-independent in football is a mistake, as far as winning anything goes. They would have pretty decent chances of winning the ACC every now and again, but as it is for them now, it's National Championship or bust. I don't see them getting close to that any time soon.
 

BamaJama17

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It's true that Nebraska has a huge recruiting problem with almost no instate talent to speak of. Still, I think it hurt them badly by leaving the Big 12 for the Big Ten (as far as recruiting goes). Now, you've completely abandoned the state of Texas. Where does Nebraska recruit now? There isn't much talent in Iowa/Wisconsin/Minnesota either. I imagine the state of Illinois has some, but nothing like Texas, and you've already got the instate schools to compete with there, to say nothing of the already intrenched powers of Ohio State and Michigan.

The Big 12 needed to have done a better job setting up its divisions as well as it's cross-division schedules. It's true that in 1996, Nebraska was smack dab in the middle of its heyday under Tom Osborne. They were the 800 lb gorilla in the room, not Texas and certainly not Oklahoma, whom they were routinely destroying by 60 points. Still, putting the Sooners in the opposite division and not protecting the cross-division rivalry between OU and NU was a huge mistake. The Big 12 needed to protect Texas vs. Oklahoma, and it did, but it also needed to protect Oklahoma vs. Nebraska. It didn't and a host of other things did not go the Huskers way and they finally abandoned the league. Now, they're making more money in the Big Ten, but their chances of ever returning to a status even close to their 1996 levels are small indeed.



And this is why Notre Dame remaining quasi-independent in football is a mistake, as far as winning anything goes. They would have pretty decent chances of winning the ACC every now and again, but as it is for them now, it's National Championship or bust. I don't see them getting close to that any time soon.
Well who would have ever thought 20 years ago Nebraska would ever leave the Big-12 for the Big-10??? I think the loss to Texas in the 2009 Big-12 CCG was the last straw for them. Throughout the 20th century Notre Dame could benefit from being independent. Even so with the BCS bowls to an extent. Not so much with the Playoff anymore.
 

81usaf92

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Well who would have ever thought 20 years ago Nebraska would ever leave the Big-12 for the Big-10??? I think the loss to Texas in the 2009 Big-12 CCG was the last straw for them. Throughout the 20th century Notre Dame could benefit from being independent. Even so with the BCS bowls to an extent. Not so much with the Playoff anymore.
Well who 24 years ago would've thought Nebraska would be IN the Big 12 with Texas. That's their problem altogether. I think had they jumped Arkansas or USCe in 1992 as a member of the SEC then they would be in a better situation. But they got dupped by Oklahoma into actually believing Texas could be reasonable.
 

BamaJama17

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Well who 24 years ago would've thought Nebraska would be IN the Big 12 with Texas. That's their problem altogether. I think had they jumped Arkansas or USCe in 1992 as a member of the SEC then they would be in a better situation. But they got dupped by Oklahoma into actually believing Texas could be reasonable.
I could never ever see Nebraska as an SEC school. I was only 2 in 1991 but I've never read or heard anyone talk about them considering a move to the SEC. I really wish they could have kept their annual rivalry with Oklahoma. They are scheduled to play again in '21 & '22 and then again in '29 & '30. I really just wish Alabama could play them again.
 

TideEngineer08

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I could never ever see Nebraska as an SEC school. I was only 2 in 1991 but I've never read or heard anyone talk about them considering a move to the SEC. I really wish they could have kept their annual rivalry with Oklahoma. They are scheduled to play again in '21 & '22 and then again in '29 & '30. I really just wish Alabama could play them again.
I'm not sure Nebraska in the SEC would work either. They are so far away.

If you study the history of the Big 12 formation, it's clear that it was heavily manipulated by Texas. They purposely left the lower rung of the SWC hanging out to dry, and halfway conspired with Arkansas for them to join the SEC by themselves in 1991 in order to take any heat off of Texas for the dissolution of the SWC. With Arkansas gone, Texas could then start complaining that the SWC was no longer viable and that they had to move on, which ultimately happened in 1996.

The Big 12 was formed because of tv rights. Neither the SWC nor the Big 8 commanded enough market share on their own. I do think a 16 team super conference was discussed, which would have combined both conferences in full, but Texas wanted nothing to do with the smaller private schools in their own state anymore (Rice, SMU, TCU, and Houston). (I realize Houston isn't small nor private but they were a relatively recent addition to the SWC, that Texas didn't really care for). So, the Big 12 was somewhat of a shotgun wedding that really didn't have much chance for long term survival. But I do think some things could have been done to help keep the band together in spite of the weight Bevo liked to throw around.

They should have kept the Nebraska/Oklahoma yearly game intact. Frankly, Oklahoma needed to remain in the same division with Nebraska somehow, even if the geography didn't work. Because that game needed to remain on Thanksgiving weekend/Black Friday. You could have split the divisions something like this: North: Colorado, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State South: Baylor, Iowa State, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech. No, the geography doesn't work that well, but rivalries could have been properly maintained by having the protected cross division game. OU/Texas becomes a cross division game that's played annually just like Alabama/Tennessee. Missour/Kansas would have been protected this way. Who cares about Iowa State? They would have been happy to have been included.

I think the Big 12 really screwed up by not doing this. Think about Thanksgiving Day each year. You would have had Texas vs. Texas A&M that evening and then Nebraska vs. Oklahoma the next day. Often that would have been like a semi-final as the winners would likely have won the division too.

I'm sorry for being long-winded. This kind of thing fascinates me for some reason.
 

BamaJama17

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No good coach in their right mind would ever go to Nebraska. Nebraska has recruiting problems ten times worse than Tennessee, but with more unrealistic expectations from an obnoxious fan base.

Their in state quality is horrible. 80% of the state population is within a 45 minute radius. For them to be great they need to invade Missouri in recruiting. Ever since Pinkle and Houston Nutt started getting the recruits Stoops didn't, Nebraska went down hill.

Living in Nebraska for 6 years I can tell you that their fan base is one of the most obnoxious I have ever seen. They are way more connected to their team than any other I've ever seen as well. That is a huge problem. Pelini was a hot head, but if you would've seen the crap he had to put up with due to how easily a non alumnus could get in his office and say what he thinks then I think some of y'all would change some of what you think about him.

It also doesn't help that the fan base is among the dumbed as well. They really believed they would win their side of the BIG 10 conference every year. Take into account that they were on the Michigan and MSU side when they first joined. Then they make a fake rivalry amongst their fan base with Wisconsin because Wisconsin was their first big 10 game (and first loss). Ask a Badger fan if Nebraska is a rival and they will say No and give you an odd look.
I would say their rivalry with Iowa and Minnesota is legit. They have some history with Nebraska before Nebraska entered the Big Ten.
 

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