How should Tide QBS Jalen, Tua and/or Mac Be Used in 2017?

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,500
46,843
187
I think we have to allow JH (and it sounds like the CNS agrees) to prove he's gotten better. Early indications this is true. It would be shocking if he regresses.
I don't see him regressing, but we have 2 reports about Hurts: His accuracy is better, but he is still tentative in his decision making. One is positive, the other not so much. He has work to do, just like everyone else on the roster.
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,810
6,245
187
Greenbow, Alabama
Assuming no injuries, both stay through this season and next spring whether they play or not in 2017. However, if one is clearly ahead of the other for the 2nd spot going into summer camp in 2018, hence next in line to start, there is almost no chance that the person coming in 3rd will stick around. And remember that you will keep recruiting QBs.

All that said, if Jalen wins the job this year, I really hope that you find a way to keep Tua on the team. They both seem like special guys who can be leaders on and off the field. Guys like that win championships.
Thanks B1G, this is exactly how I see it could play out. We as fans love them when they sign with us and then turn on them when they transfer. These are kids who want a chance to play, so I never have anything bad to say when they have given their best and seek an opportunity to play at another program.
 

Tradition4ever

1st Team
Oct 16, 2004
463
4
42
47
Carlsbad, NM
I don't see him regressing, but we have 2 reports about Hurts: His accuracy is better, but he is still tentative in his decision making. One is positive, the other not so much. He has work to do, just like everyone else on the roster.
Hurts may be overly tentative on his own, but as long as CNS is the head coach, I think you'll always see the QBs play with some level of caution you might not see with other programs. The reason I say this is because it is my belief that Saban puts an extremely high premium on the offense protecting the football. I think it is his highest priority he places on the offense, to the degree that it may play a significant factor in a QB's willingness, or unwillingness, to pull the trigger on a lot of throws. Any QB for the Tide is going to need to do a lot of "winning CNS over" before CNS would have a level of trust in the QB that would warrant that QB being free to pull the trigger on whatever he sees. I think Hurts has the work ethic and maturity to win over CNS on that level, but we'll see....
 

Redwood Forrest

Hall of Fame
Sep 19, 2003
11,042
907
237
76
Boaz, AL USA
Actually, that would seem pretty easy because it would tell the defense what the offense is going to do. Plus, it would slow down the rhythm of the offense.
Well, I guess I have assumed wrong for my armchair career. :smile: If the passing QB always plays with the "passing center" then the rhythm shouldn't change, should it? I always thought changing QBs messed up the center and his rhythm. I'll rethink my stratergery.
 

TideMan09

Hall of Fame
Jan 17, 2009
12,187
1,156
187
Anniston, Alabama
In a perfect scenario Jalen will get the vast majority of snaps this year, with a QB battle between Mac & Tua through A-Day, with the winner becoming Jalen's back-up & the other taking a RS this year..I agree 100& that our back-up needs to get as much PT mop up duty once we gain a huge lead, it makes more sense this season allowing the back-up to gain valuable real gametime snaps, that wasn't the case last season cause Jalen was a TF QB & needed those snaps a back-up usually would get for the experience..
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
Well, I guess I have assumed wrong for my armchair career. :smile: If the passing QB always plays with the "passing center" then the rhythm shouldn't change, should it? I always thought changing QBs messed up the center and his rhythm. I'll rethink my stratergery.
You're not just talking about a passing QB and passing center. You're talking about switching out an entire OL plus a QB in the middle of a drive. That will disrupt the rest of the offense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Ole Man Dan

Hall of Fame
Apr 21, 2008
8,982
3,421
187
Gadsden, Al.
I would see if TUA is interested in Redshirting. He could be out future. Mac could fit into the same scheme as Hurts, if he is up to speed on the plays. Any game we are up big in, we should slide in one of our Freshmen, but keep Jalen on standby, incase it proves to be a bust.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
44
kraizy.art
That being said, i would prepare him as the backup and insert him if Jalen is off and we are behind to try and maintain a winning streak.
That's a dangerous game to play and one Saban has refused to play thus far. I don't think you do that unless you've completely lost confidence in your starter. There have only been three incidents in which the starter came out while struggling a bit and they all had mitigating circumstances. A: GMac against Auburn, he came out entirely because he got banged up and AJ came in (didn't go so well). I should add that while Alabama was behind, GMac was having a solid game. B: Jacob Coker replaced Cooper Bateman in the Ole Miss game. This is the probably the most obvious instance of a guy getting yanked for not getting the job done. The thing is the QBs has been swapping places and no starter had been named yet. Also, Coker was injured so playing Bateman might have been a precaution as much as anything. C: Jalen Hurts replacing Barnett in the USC game. Barnett wasn't exactly tearing things up, but once again no starter was named yet. So, this was more an instance of Hurts taking the bull by the horns than anything else.

Saban has allowed QB battles when he hasn't had an incumbent starter. What he's never done though, is really let another QB share time once a starter is determined, and he doesn't yank his starter for struggling (I suppose he might but it would take something spectacular). Yes, Ingram did some wildcat, but he was never a replacement for GMac. On the flip side, Blake Sims never came in and ran wildcat during AJ's tenure, even if it could have been effective. Saban is reluctant to take the ball of of the hand of the guy he trusts. JPW, GMac, AJ, and I'd point out he left Blake Sims in even when he struggled mightily, and Sims rewarded him with a strong comeback against Auburn (like Hurts had a strong comeback against Ole Miss). So, while I understand the rational. I don't think that's how Saban uses his quarterbacks. I think he puts his faith in his #1 guy and we've seen those guys engineer some impressive comebacks. Barnett was a better pure passer than Hurts last season, but what would have happened if Hurts got pulled after falling behind to Ole Miss? Would Barnett really have been able to manage the comeback? So, I understand, I just don't see that as being how Saban will do it.

If Tua or Mac are impressing coaches much like Jalen did last year then why not play one of them as the 2nd best quarterback on the team.

When you say there is an advantage in bringing in a quarterback with more experience I'm curious how he got his experience? I'm not trying to argue because you may have a great point, I'm just trying to figure out how you get a graduate transfer to play backup with experience unless he played in mop up just like we will ask the two freshman to do.
To the first part, the why not is because you're burning a year of eligibility for mop-up duty. That also leads into my other point.

In one post, and I can't expect anyone to read them all, I mentioned like Cooper Bateman or Alec Morris. What did I mean by that? Well first, I understand why those two left. They'd had the Alabama experience. They had the rings, they'd been around great coaching, they wanted to see what they could do and get some playing time. However, and I'm not saying there's anyone like that, but what if there's a guy out there who wants a ring and wants to be around great coaching? There probably is right? Someone who knows he has no future as a pro, but may be as a coach? Or may be he just wants to be a part of something special? Let's say Cooper Bateman had stayed, would anyone have had an issue with him being the backup while Tua and Jones redshirted? He's not that experienced, right? But still, he attempted about 50 passes in live action. He's played in SEC games, he's played in some big games. So yeah, someone like him, someone who isn't going to start elsewhere at QB apparently, is certainly capable of being a backup QB at Alabama (since he was), and is certainly more experienced than Jones and Tua right?

Having said all that I said above. Despite wanting a graduate transfer like a Bateman or a Morris on the bench, if Hurts gets hurt and will miss a meaningful amount of time, then I think all bets are off. I'd agree with taking the redshirt off Tua if he for what ever reason clearly becomes the best option. But only if he's clearly the best option. But, I think it would make a heck of a lot of sense to get an more experienced guy to play mop-up duty if that's at all possible.
 

Redwood Forrest

Hall of Fame
Sep 19, 2003
11,042
907
237
76
Boaz, AL USA
Well, I guess I have assumed wrong for my armchair career. :smile: If the passing QB always plays with the "passing center" then the rhythm shouldn't change, should it? I always thought changing QBs messed up the center and his rhythm. I'll rethink my stratergery.
I never played organized football. Does it show?:) By just watching the game it is always the linemen who get the false start flags so I just assumed it was a lineman QB/Center and lineman rhythm timing thing.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,500
46,843
187
I never played organized football. Does it show?:) By just watching the game it is always the linemen who get the false start flags so I just assumed it was a lineman QB/Center and lineman rhythm timing thing.
False start penalties result from a lack of focus. No matter the count being used, the entire o-line has to go through that count mentally - in their heads - to get off the LOS on time. They also have to focus on not moving once set - they cannot allow movement across the LOS to cause them to flinch. Lose focus and you get penalized. Lose focus in the NFL and you risk your future. If Cam has as many false starts in the NFL as he had at Alabama, he will get benched and then cut. You can hold to protect your QB, but they simply do no tolerate a lack of focus.
 

Tideflyer

Hall of Fame
Dec 14, 2011
7,826
3,905
187
Savannah, GA
As an armchair coach I would like to see our backup quarterback get inserted into the game earlier in obvious blowouts. If Tua is as good as rumors are indicating, I would LOVE for him to RS to put a year between he and Jalen.


Yep, really need to find a way to get some distance between these guys if at all possible, IMHO. Just too much talent bunched up.
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,772
6,537
187
So, none of us really know how good Tua is or how much/little Jalen has/will progress by the time the season starts. But, if Tua really is THAT good then my bet is he is the backup this year and pushes Jalen next year. The probelm with making a educated guess is that until A day none of us will have a great idea where either QB really stands. And even after that we won't have a great idea because as Blake Sims showed us there is a long time between A Day and the first game.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,932
15,935
282
Boone, NC
So, none of us really know how good Tua is or how much/little Jalen has/will progress by the time the season starts. But, if Tua really is THAT good then my bet is he is the backup this year and pushes Jalen next year. The probelm with making a educated guess is that until A day none of us will have a great idea where either QB really stands. And even after that we won't have a great idea because as Blake Sims showed us there is a long time between A Day and the first game.
I think you highlight the philisophical debate. Do you really want your #2 qb to lose a year of eligibility in mop-up duty (if the #1 is clearly entrenched and dependable)?

Until there was a real need for your "next best qb," like in the case of #1 going down with injury OR #1 falling to pieces, wouldn't you want your #3 qb to be the "mop-up" guy and save the #2 guy's year of eligibility?

This, of course, assumes the staff and the #2 guy (and probably the #3 guy) are fully aware of why the process is being followed.
 

gtgilbert

All-American
Aug 12, 2011
3,168
4,042
187
I think you highlight the philisophical debate. Do you really want your #2 qb to lose a year of eligibility in mop-up duty (if the #1 is clearly entrenched and dependable)?

Until there was a real need for your "next best qb," like in the case of #1 going down with injury OR #1 falling to pieces, wouldn't you want your #3 qb to be the "mop-up" guy and save the #2 guy's year of eligibility?

This, of course, assumes the staff and the #2 guy (and probably the #3 guy) are fully aware of why the process is being followed.
I agree it's a philosophical thing. The counter point to your position is how can you be confident that your #2 guy can perform in games so he's ready if #1 goes down unless you get him plenty of game reps, likely in mop-up time. Barnett redshirted a year and look what happened in his first game experience. Could he have been better if he'd received some game reps the year before to get him used to the environment and being on the field in front of 100k people. Perhaps, perhaps not. Like you said, it's philosophical, so there's not a "right" answer, just preferences and opinions, which could certainly vary from situation to situation
 

day-day

Hall of Fame
Jan 2, 2005
9,937
1,659
187
Bartlett, TN (Memphis area)
Jones may be the real deal as well. If either Tagovailoa or Jones redshirt while the other does not there is still no certainty who the next starting QB will be. Quite possible that if neither transfers, both could end up being one-year starters. If one feels that they have a chance of passing the other in the next couple of years, the one that is "behind" may decide not to transfer. Tough to think that someone won't transfer though...

Very unique situation for Bama at the moment.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
44
kraizy.art
he counter point to your position is how can you be confident that your #2 guy can perform in games so he's ready if #1 goes down unless you get him plenty of game reps, likely in mop-up time. Barnett redshirted a year and look what happened in his first game experience.
First, I think you could be overestimating the value of mop-up duty reps. Saban doesn't like using his backup quarterback, and he doesn't like unleashing his offense when he does. Handing off is only going to teach the guy so much, the return on investment doesn't seem worth it. To the part about Barnett, just consider this... Bateman was getting those incredibly valuable backup reps, and Barnett still passed him up. Don't get me wrong, they're better than nothing, but we're basically talking about burning a redshirt so a guy can throw 20 passes in live action. If Barnett had been the guy, we'd all be glad he redshirted. He wasn't though and backup reps don't seem to have been the difference, since Hurts didn't get those the previous year either.

Now, if Saban really played his backups more and unleashed them? It might be a different story, but he just doesn't do that. That's one reason I'd prefer a graduate transfer if it is at all possible. 3 or so seasons around an FBS program is bound to get him more experience than mop up duty as a Saban QB in a few games...

Tough to think that someone won't transfer though...
I remember saying last year that if Hurts was the starter there would be a mass exodus. It's the nature of the beast. I can't imagine both staying either, and it seems to me that if either one burns his redshirt, he'd be the first out of the door. But yeah, just no way I can see Hurts, Tua and Jones all being on the team more than a couple of years tops. I also can't help but think how this was handled was in part to keep them all on board this long. Eason was committed last year (ok, I got confused on that, he never was it was Fromm), but at that time he wasn't just in the class with Hurts, there was Cornwell, Bateman and Barnett. I can't help but think that Saban stayed away from JUCO and graduate transfer guys this long to help land that class.
 
Last edited:

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
First, I think you could be overestimating the value of mop-up duty reps. Saban doesn't like using his backup quarterback, and he doesn't like unleashing his offense when he does. Handing off is only going to teach the guy so much, the return on investment doesn't seem worth it. To the part about Barnett, just consider this... Bateman was getting those incredibly valuable backup reps, and Barnett still passed him up. Don't get me wrong, they're better than nothing, but we're basically talking about burning a redshirt so a guy can throw 20 passes in live action. If Barnett had been the guy, we'd all be glad he redshirted. He wasn't though and backup reps don't seem to have been the difference, since Hurts didn't get those the previous year either.
You left out a key part in the 2015 season, Krazy - Barnett's medical issues. Remember, he was in the hospital for several days. Prior to that, he was in line for playing time.

Now, if Saban really played his backups more and unleashed them? It might be a different story, but he just doesn't do that.
This is one area I wish Saban would change. I've come around to the idea of "tough luck if you can't stop our backups running the offense on you."


I remember saying last year that if Hurts was the starter there would be a mass exodus. It's the nature of the beast. I can't imagine both staying either, and it seems to me that if either one burns his redshirt, he'd be the first out of the door. But yeah, just no way I can see Hurts, Tua and Jones all being on the team more than a couple of years tops. I also can't help but think how this was handled was in part to keep them all on board this long. Eason was committed last year, but at that time he wasn't just in the class with Hurts, there was Cornwell, Bateman and Barnett. I can't help but think that Saban stayed away from JUCO and graduate transfer guys this long to help land that class.
Eason was never committed to Alabama.
 

IMALOYAL1

All-American
Oct 28, 2000
3,927
246
187
Birmingham AL
Hopefully the QB situation works out to the benefit of all.
Coach Saban likes for the team to get behind a QB they trust will win. It seems Jalen has won the team and will continue to be the starter. I can think of several scenarios that could and may play out. One would have each of these three QB's leading us to championships. It's too early to say any one will transfer. I think Coker, had he joined us out of HS would have bided his time much like Blake Sims, probably because he wasn't a 5 star phenom according to some, and a home state guy. We'll continue to recruit QB's and some will become the starter and some may transfer or stay. I hope we are in the best position at QB for several years coming. I like the position we are in.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
44
kraizy.art
Eason was never committed to Alabama.
Somehow and I'm not sure how I kind of merged Fromm and Eason in my mind when it came to Alabama recruiting. Alabama went after Eason and missed out on him entirely, then Fromm flipped from Alabama to Georgia. Not sure how I got all that kind of muddled up in my head, heh.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,932
15,935
282
Boone, NC
I agree it's a philosophical thing. The counter point to your position is how can you be confident that your #2 guy can perform in games so he's ready if #1 goes down unless you get him plenty of game reps, likely in mop-up time. Barnett redshirted a year and look what happened in his first game experience. Could he have been better if he'd received some game reps the year before to get him used to the environment and being on the field in front of 100k people. Perhaps, perhaps not. Like you said, it's philosophical, so there's not a "right" answer, just preferences and opinions, which could certainly vary from situation to situation
I think Krazy answerd this to some extent. Mop-up duty, the way CNS does it, is not preparing anybody for anything. Thus, that type of mop-up play isn't worth burning a red-shirt for.

Now, if CNS decides to let the real #2 get some serious reps, I might feel differently, but even then... JH still has at least 2 full years and maybe 3. I just don't think it would be worth it (once again, unless Hurts seems to be struggling or not progressing and the was a real possibility of Tua competing for the job in 2018).
 

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.