How should Tide QBS Jalen, Tua and/or Mac Be Used in 2017?

BamaMoon · Apr 13, 2017

Wanted to start this conversation separately from the Spring Practice thread because it deals with our qbs and how they should be used next year.

I'm giving last year's starter, JH, the benefit of the doubt that he will be our starter in 2017. CNS has indicated this is the case: http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2017/03/if_there_were_questions_about.html)

Also, we've heard good reports from spring practice (especially the last scrimmage) about JH's improved passing skills.

The real question concerns Tua and Mac. I think it would be safe to assume that one and maybe both could redshirt. However, there is probably the practical need for one of them to perform mop-up duty in blowouts. There is also the real concern of JH being more likely to be injured in being DT.

If you haven't noticed, Tua is being hyped like so many other true freshman, but it sounds like his passing skills are way ahead of schedule. I'm sure you've heard what Trent Dilfer said about him: (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/a...eshman-qb-tua-tagovailoa-ultimate-compliment/).

So...what do you do with Tua next season? Redshirt him and let Mac be the mop-up guy, assuming he's #3 on the depth chart OR go ahead and play Tua and get him some real game experience for the future, but (assuming JH plays well and stays healthy) waste a year?

I know it's in the coaches hands, but what are you thoughts on this?

Bamabuzzard · Apr 13, 2017

As an armchair coach I would like to see our backup quarterback get inserted into the game earlier in obvious blowouts. If Tua is as good as rumors are indicating, I would LOVE for him to RS to put a year between he and Jalen.

RTR91 · Apr 13, 2017

With the QB transfers, Alabama has two options - get a grad-transfer that knows he's solely coming here to be a backup OR play Tua or Mac. Montana Murphy isn't going to cut it, so we need someone ready in case Jalen gets injured.

My preference would be Mac. He's a right-handed thrower like Jalen, so the offense doesn't have many changes like it would if Tua plays. Also, Mac comes from a more pro-spread offense like Alabama runs. If thrown into the fire with little experience, he would at least have some experience with being under center and the general offensive style. Tua, OTOH, isn't familiar with either of those outside of what is happening right now and the fall.

RollTide_HTTR · Apr 13, 2017

If it were me Mac would be the mop up duty guy in blowouts but Tua becomes the QB if Hurts were to go down. That way the only reason you pull Tua's RS would be if Jalen gets hurt. Obviously, this is me assuming Tua is better than Mac which would seem to be the case but who really knows at this point. My bet is that Tua doesn't RS though.

B1GTide · Apr 13, 2017

Someone has to get snaps as a back-up when you are Alabama and have a shot at the title every year. You can't plug in a TF QB who has not taken a snap in a game in a playoff race and expect good results. What OSU did in 2015 was only possible because the QBs involved had been in our system for years. They were not true freshman.

So, either Mac or Tua will get snaps - probably both. I don't think that either will redshirt.

rgw · Apr 13, 2017

I'd play Montana Murphy as the mop-up duty quarterback but give most of the 2nd string snaps to Tua Tagovailoa. The problem is that Murphy is only a redshirt freshman. He's likely not so familiar with the system that he can afford to have reduced snaps and be ready to step in as a temporary emergency QB.

The QB depth chart is truly odd and I can't think of a time where we've had such incredible youth across the board. We haven't had a true freshman starter in my lifetime until last year though and in today's climate that usually leads to a depth chart diaspora. Everything I've heard about Tua makes me think that he ought to be the second best QB on campus by this Fall. Will this staff give him the rank and title due his talent or protect his eligibility because of his talents?

gtgilbert · Apr 13, 2017

B1GTide said:
Someone has to get snaps as a back-up when you are Alabama and have a shot at the title every year. You can't plug in a TF QB who has not taken a snap in a game in a playoff race and expect good results. What OSU did in 2015 was only possible because the QBs involved had been in our system for years. They were not true freshman.

So, either Mac or Tua will get snaps - probably both. I don't think that either will redshirt.

agree with all this. who ever earns the #2 spot I would hope would get some reps in mop up. If possible would like to see the #3 redshirt just so there is a year of eligibility between them all and each would still have some chance at becoming the starter when their turn comes.

RollTide_HTTR · Apr 13, 2017

B1GTide said:
Someone has to get snaps as a back-up when you are Alabama and have a shot at the title every year. You can't plug in a TF QB who has not taken a snap in a game in a playoff race and expect good results. What OSU did in 2015 was only possible because the QBs involved had been in our system for years. They were not true freshman.

So, either Mac or Tua will get snaps - probably both. I don't think that either will redshirt.

I've thought about it a lot and have been thinking this same thing.

JustNeedMe81 · Apr 13, 2017

I think We'll see Mac/Tua competing for back up role this fall. If Mac Jones gains 20lbs.. he'll play.. if he doesn't.. he will redshirt. I hope we get graduate transfer soon, but I doubt we would.

RTR91 · Apr 13, 2017

JustNeedMe81 said:
I think We'll see Mac/Tua competing for back up role this fall. If Mac Jones gains 20lbs.. he'll play.. if he doesn't.. he will redshirt.

So you believe the competition is purely based on Mac gaining 20 pounds?

Bamabuzzard · Apr 13, 2017

rgw said:
I'd play Montana Murphy as the mop-up duty quarterback but give most of the 2nd string snaps to Tua Tagovailoa. The problem is that Murphy is only a redshirt freshman. He's likely not so familiar with the system that he can afford to have reduced snaps and be ready to step in as a temporary emergency QB.

The QB depth chart is truly odd and I can't think of a time where we've had such incredible youth across the board. We haven't had a true freshman starter in my lifetime until last year though and in today's climate that usually leads to a depth chart diaspora. Everything I've heard about Tua makes me think that he ought to be the second best QB on campus by this Fall. Will this staff give him the rank and title due his talent or protect his eligibility because of his talents?

My .02 is unless he is just better than Jalen and should be the out right starter. Then for the betterment of the team and his personal chances at making it in the NFL. I'd redshirt him. It's my belief that the more mature a kid is both mentally and physically, the better chance he has at making it as a QB in the NFL. The success rate for qb's entering the NFL is not that great to begin with. So any advantage a kid can get entering the NFL is priceless. I'd rather be a 22 year old rookie entering the draft with five years of college ball under my belt than three and done if it means my chances of succeeding are greater. Granted, I know players' family financial situation many times play a role in the decision. But if that is not the case. I almost would always recommend a kid wanting to play QB in the NFL to play out his full eligibility at the college level in order to increase his chances of success at the next level.

CrimsonProf · Apr 13, 2017

I think Tua should redshirt in large part because of the left hand concerns. Mac is a highly competent quarterback in his own right, and I think it would be good to have him ready.

I think it has been a shortcoming of our staff to fail to have a backup ready - imagine how that 2010 Iron Bowl might have ended had AJ had more meaningful playing time.

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RollTide_HTTR · Apr 13, 2017

Bamabuzzard said:
My .02 is unless he is just better than Jalen and should be the out right starter. Then for the betterment of the team and his personal chances at making it in the NFL. I'd redshirt him. It's my belief that the more mature a kid is both mentally and physically, the better chance he has at making it as a QB in the NFL. The success rate for qb's entering the NFL is not that great to begin with. So any advantage a kid can get entering the NFL is priceless. I'd rather be a 22 year old rookie entering the draft with five years of college ball under my belt than three and done if it means my chances of succeeding are greater. Granted, I know players' family financial situation many times play a role in the decision. But if that is not the case. I almost would always recommend a kid wanting to play QB in the NFL to play out his full eligibility at the college level in order to increase his chances of success at the next level.

I think many would agree with this. I read something recently about drafting a QB and how Bill Parcell's wanted every QB he drafted to be a graduate, senior and have at least 3 years of starting experience. And if you look at most of the really successful QBs in the NFL they tend to fit that mold or come close to it. I can't think of a QB that has ever become a great NFL QB after only 1 year starting in college.

Bamabuzzard · Apr 13, 2017

RollTide_HTTR said:
I think many would agree with this. I read something recently about drafting a QB and how Bill Parcell's wanted every QB he drafted to be a graduate, senior and have at least 3 years of starting experience. And if you look at most of the really successful QBs in the NFL they tend to fit that mold or come close to it. I can't think of a QB that has ever become a great NFL QB after only 1 year starting in college.

It's so tough to make it as a starting QB in the NFL it's unreal. The gap between the speed and complexity of the game from college to pro, especially with that position, is tremendous. Incoming players need all the advantages they can get. Red shirting also allows at least one additional year of eligibility from running concurrent with the current starter. If Tue RS and Hurts plays out his full eligibility, he'd have two years to be the starter. But in today's sports world, kids and their parents don't have that kind of patience.

B1GTide · Apr 13, 2017

As far as having 3 high quality QBs brought in during a 2 year period, with one the established starter - that will only be further complicated when you bring in another QB in January.

I do not think that it helps anyone to redshirt either Mac or Tua when you have this kind of log jam at QB. Play them, find out who can do the job on the field and take it from there. I mean, who knew that Barnett was going to wilt before the USC game? Would anyone have guessed that?

Redshirting them both is not going to happen. Redshirt the right player and you help the team by saving a year of eligibility for a future starting QB. Redshirt the wrong player and you may not learn what you need to know about that player until it is too late.

Also, let's say that you RS Tua this year. Mac plays well in the backup role and Jalen continues to do his thing. What happens the next year with Tua? The incoming TF QB will clearly RS, but will Tua see the field? And assuming Jalen is not a 1st rounder, you have this problem again the year after that. You create a continued log jam at the position as long as Jalen stays, and you have no idea how good the other QBs are because they never saw the field.

IMO, when you have this much talent, you don't bank it for the future. You let them play. At least then, if someone leaves, everyone involved will know what has been lost and (more importantly) what remains.

KrAzY3 · Apr 13, 2017

I hope both Tua and Jones redshirt and that a graduate transfer is brought in. I don't know what the scholarship numbers look like, or what promises were made to secure Tua and Jones, so that might actually be off the table.

There's a few reason I hope they redshirt. One is it creates a two-year gap in eligibility with Hurts. This matters a lot, because there can only be one starter at a time. Imagine if Tua is the real deal, if he is that good and Alabama only gets one year as a starter out of him? The second is that it is hard to imagine a true freshman getting enough playing time as a backup to be ready for a big game if needs be. Remember when AJ had to be thrust into the Auburn game and how over his head he looked? That was a redshirt freshman AJ! One of Alabama's best all time QBs and he was clearly in over his head. While a graduate transfer might be limited in terms of skill, there's a lot of reason to prefer a Alec Morris/Cooper Bateman type in this situations anyway. Now, if Hurts suffered a season ending injury or something, then I think the redshirts should be re-evaluated. The third reason is that as long as both redshirt (I can't imagine both playing, that would be wasteful and silly, no way both true freshmen get meaningful minutes), they are kind of on even footing when it comes to competing for the starting job. Taking the redshirt off one would create a gap that doesn't need to be there in my opinion.

There's also a lot that could potentially go on with Hurts. It is not out of the realm of possibility that Hurts leaves early, if he improves the NFL is going to start taking notice. So, this could turn into a chance for Tua to start as a redshirt sophomore. Which, by the way is exactly when AJ started. On the other hand, let's assume Hurts somehow regresses. Well, I still don't see a far less experienced and less physically mature true freshman taking his job. But, might a redshirt freshman Tua push Hurts if he hasn't progressed? Yes, that's possible. I just don't see the downside to Tua (or Jones) redshirting.

To put this in another context, there was talk that AJ was actually GMac's backup for the 2009 championship game. GMac had broken ribs, so this wasn't a small consideration. The problem is, had AJ played that game Alabama would have had him for one less year. That's a heck of a price to pay, but I'd get it for the championship game. But to pay that price just for mop up duty? No thanks...

RTR91 · Apr 13, 2017

Something to keep in mind when discussing a graduate transfer option - SEC Bylaw 14.1.15 (Two-Year Eligibility) which requires a student-athlete to have at least two years of eligibility remaining to be eligible to receive financial aid, practice and compete.

After the Mo Smith debacle last year, Alabama could easily contest the bylaw, but the rule could very well prevent a graduate transfer from getting to Tuscaloosa.

Bamabuzzard · Apr 13, 2017

KrAzY3 said:
I hope both Tua and Jones redshirt and that a graduate transfer is brought in. I don't know what the scholarship numbers look like, or what promises were made to secure Tua and Jones, so that might actually be off the table.

There's a few reason I hope they redshirt. One is it creates a two-year gap in eligibility with Hurts. This matters a lot, because there can only be one starter at a time. Imagine if Tua is the real deal, if he is that good and Alabama only gets one year as a starter out of him? The second is that it is hard to imagine a true freshman getting enough playing time as a backup to be ready for a big game if needs be. Remember when AJ had to be thrust into the Auburn game and how over his head he looked? That was a redshirt freshman AJ! One of Alabama's best all time QBs and he was clearly in over his head. While a graduate transfer might be limited in terms of skill, there's a lot of reason to prefer a Alec Morris/Cooper Bateman type in this situations anyway. Now, if Hurts suffered a season ending injury or something, then I think the redshirts should be re-evaluated. The third reason is that as long as both redshirt (I can't imagine both playing, that would be wasteful and silly, no way both true freshmen get meaningful minutes), they are kind of on even footing when it comes to competing for the starting job. Taking the redshirt off one would create a gap that doesn't need to be there in my opinion.....

.

Just saw an article on social media the other night where Trent Dilfer said Tua is the most talented/polished freshman quarterback he's ever seen. Granted, it may not mean a lot coming from Dilfer if one's respect level of him is determined by his level of play in the NFL. But the guy has been around A LOT of freshman qb's over the last ten years or so and for him to make public comments of this nature is pretty telling in my book.

CrimsonProf · Apr 13, 2017

Very unrealistic to think that both Tua and Jones will be redshirted unless a competent backup transfers in - and there has yet to be a whisper of that.

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Tiderollin32 · Apr 13, 2017

If I were selecting a backup I would select the best option whether it be Tua or Mac. Saban doesn't play for the future here at Alabama, we are a reload and refuel and keep winning now program. I understand putting a year of separation would make since for the future with either Tua or Mac but we are in win now mode and we can't stop a potential transfer if Jalen decided to stay another year putting Tua or Mac in a spot where he would only get to play one year.

How should Tide QBS Jalen, Tua and/or Mac Be Used in 2017?

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