Should Tua be redshirted?

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,616
4,541
187
44
kraizy.art
Since you like statistics, I'm going to link for you a chart, at the bottom of this post.
Here's the problem with showing up late and wanting to have a conversation. We've already gone over that chart, multiple times. You're not showing anything new. I hate to rehash what's already been said, but I broke down the chart once. You see the green? That's above average, and regardless of how far he's throwing it, those passes are still above average passes. The grey? That's average, that's run of the mill. The red shows areas one would hope he'd improve on.

The trick is once you break the passes down, what you come up with is that across the line of scrimmage Hurts was actually an fairly average passer according to that chart. If he throws 56 passes to one spot and they're well ahead of the average to that spot, then that isn't diminished by the fact that he was below average on 24 passes somewhere else on the field. So, is it fair to look at that chart and say he was an average passer? Yes. Is it fair to look at that chart and say he was a below average passer to some areas (like just about any quarterback would be)? Yes. It's not fair though to overlook the strengths he had as a passer, and that chart wouldn't have any green at all if he didn't have strengths.

But, there are a couple of things that the chart doesn't address. One is strength of schedule, he played the toughest schedule in the country. The problem is average, which is what the chart is going off of, is of course also going to be centered around average competition. The chart does nothing at all to account for the fact that he faced above average competition. Finally, there is the little fact that he was a true freshman. If they made up that chart but basing the stats off of true freshman, I can assure you there would be a lot more green.

So, my personal conclusion is that he was somewhere between an average and a good downfield passer. It's hard to tell for sure because he faced such adverse circumstances. Clearly though, he can and should improve (as most freshman do). But, none of that takes away from what he's done! That's my sticking point. Was he a great dual threat QB? That's an easy argument to make. They gave him SEC Offensive Player of the Year, and how could an average downfield passer win that? Well, by being one of the best rusher in the league as well. I guess that helps. Even if you concede he's an average passer, you are left with him being a spectacular rusher, and it's not hard to make the argument that still results in a great quarterback...
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,582
47,142
187
Just curious, but are you an Alabama fan or Ohio State fan? I honestly couldn't tell you who are the candidates for the QB position at OSU and don't even care.
Both, but OSU over Alabama when we play one another. But, more importantly, I am a fan of the game, not just these two teams.
 

Crimson White

1st Team
Jun 17, 2014
475
1
37
I'd trust his knowledge on the subject before I'd trust yours...
You'd trust his knowledge or prefer his opinion? There is a difference. If it's about knowledge, wouldn't you need to know the background of each of us, whether we'd played the game, or played the position, or coached the game or position?

If, anyway, the poster is tired of the topic, it's easy enough just not to click on it. I kind of like UGA ok, but not enough to call myself a fan of their program. If, though, I'm on one of their boards, and a topic bores me, I just won't click it, and since I'm really not even much of a UGA fan, I probably will not be compelled to even go there.
 

tidefanbeezer

All-American
Sep 25, 2006
3,292
204
87
46
Atlanta, GA
You'd trust his knowledge or prefer his opinion? There is a difference. If it's about knowledge, wouldn't you need to know the background of each of us, whether we'd played the game, or played the position, or coached the game or position?

If, anyway, the poster is tired of the topic, it's easy enough just not to click on it. I kind of like UGA ok, but not enough to call myself a fan of their program. If, though, I'm on one of their boards, and a topic bores me, I just won't click it, and since I'm really not even much of a UGA fan, I probably will not be compelled to even go there.
I think what Krazy is getting at is that B1G has shown, through thousands of thoughtful and well reasoned posts, that he is knowledgeable of the game and earned a lot of respect. So his opinions and thoughts will carry a bit more weight than a poster who has less than 100 interactions on the board. Simply, we don't know enough about you yet to say for sure that you'll be a quality poster here.

In other words, B1G is Jalen Hurts to your Tua. You may one day be a Hall of Fame poster. But for now, we know what we've got with B1G and it's pretty dang good.
 
Last edited:

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,582
47,142
187
If, anyway, the poster is tired of the topic, it's easy enough just not to click on it.
For clarity, I have enjoyed the discussion around the original thread topic - should Tua be redshirted. I have not enjoyed reading posts knocking Jalen Hurts. I get it - I have been honest about where I think that Jalen needs to improve. I am also excited about Tua. But we don't have to knock Jalen to appreciate Tua.
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,825
6,304
187
Greenbow, Alabama
You'd trust his knowledge or prefer his opinion? There is a difference. If it's about knowledge, wouldn't you need to know the background of each of us, whether we'd played the game, or played the position, or coached the game or position?

If, anyway, the poster is tired of the topic, it's easy enough just not to click on it. I kind of like UGA ok, but not enough to call myself a fan of their program. If, though, I'm on one of their boards, and a topic bores me, I just won't click it, and since I'm really not even much of a UGA fan, I probably will not be compelled to even go there.
With all due respect, there is no need to be critical of long time, respected posters whether you agree or not.
 

TiderJack

Hall of Fame
Jul 9, 2010
12,267
6,345
187
Inverness, AL
Man, is it going to be like this all the way through 2019
FIFY.

For the people who are over the top about Tua's performace against the 2's at A-Day, did you see Jalen' stats and improvement against our 1's? It's like you are comparing Tua's A-day performance against Jalen's Clemson performance. Jalen has come a long way from what I saw at A-Day and I would think most of you would agree.
 

tusks_n_raider

Hall of Fame
May 13, 2009
12,210
12,522
187
Mobile, AL
FIFY.

For the people who are over the top about Tua's performace against the 2's at A-Day, did you see Jalen' stats and improvement against our 1's? It's like you are comparing Tua's A-day performance against Jalen's Clemson performance. Jalen has come a long way from what I saw at A-Day and I would think most of you would agree.
His deep ball passing is light years improved from not just A-Day but last season and the Clemson game.

The ONLY thing that still worries me is 3rd downs/pressure and his instincts to give up on WR's and take off running/not pull the trigger. Someone mentioned it elsewhere but last year there were a LOT of plays where Ridley roasted a guy(s) on a double move route and by time he was wide open Jalen was already head down running.

But.... if he can fix his deep ball that much in 3 months then there is no reason to think he can't fix the intermediate 3rd down passes in the next 4. He already has all the intangibles and his legs are a huge weapon. When he puts it all together he's going to be unstoppable.

As for Tua, at first I really wanted him to RS to create some separation from Jalen. But after reading other people's posts and thinking about it I agree that we need to play for now and not the future. If Tua is #2 which I think we all agree he is....then he needs to be ready and get some quality snaps and playing time. Jalen runs a lot and even though he is Tebow strong his is not immune to injury. We have to have Tua ready just in case. That means meaningful snaps earlier in games and not just in garbage time. If we are going to burn the RS it can't just be for hand-offs and short safe passes in the 4th qtr trying to run out the clock.

Hopefully we can create a role for him. Like others have said maybe ala Leak/Tebow.
 

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
20,852
1,351
232
Tuscaloosa
I just can't shake that we didn't give any of the walk-ons snaps last weekend. I think that is the sign that neither true freshman QB's redshirt is safe. We don't even have an "old-timer" as a walk-on either. Montana Murphy came in last year and probably didn't see much in practice beyond scout team.

I'd prefer Tua get a redshirt because I think Jalen Hurts is more likely to be a 4-year starter than an early entry to the draft.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,582
47,142
187
I just can't shake that we didn't give any of the walk-ons snaps last weekend. I think that is the sign that neither true freshman QB's redshirt is safe. We don't even have an "old-timer" as a walk-on either. Montana Murphy came in last year and probably didn't see much in practice beyond scout team.

I'd prefer Tua get a redshirt because I think Jalen Hurts is more likely to be a 4-year starter than an early entry to the draft.
I agree that Hurts is likely a 4 year guy, but Jones did not look ready to me. A smart play might be to RS Jones this year and Tua next year (if Jones is ready). Then let the chips fall where they may if Jalen stays for his senior year.
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,825
6,304
187
Greenbow, Alabama
I agree that Hurts is likely a 4 year guy, but Jones did not look ready to me. A smart play might be to RS Jones this year and Tua next year (if Jones is ready). Then let the chips fall where they may if Jalen stays for his senior year.
I agree with B1G. IMO Hurts is here for his full 4 years. If Tua is not redshirted and plays essentially in mop up duty this fall can he be redshirted in 2018? Jones needs some seasoning and should be RS this year.
 
Last edited:

Crimson White

1st Team
Jun 17, 2014
475
1
37
It isn't reasonable to think Tua is going to sit on the bench for 3 years. I said the same thing last year about Barnett, and evidently Tua is better. He'll either get a chance to prove himself, or he'll not likely be here the next year, and as I said about Barnett, I wouldn't blame him. I do think Barnett would have gotten a chance, though, had he stayed. He cut out too soon imo.

edit: For the record, I think he'll get his chance. That's about all a guy can ask for.
 
Last edited:

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,825
6,304
187
Greenbow, Alabama
FWIW, I agree. At this time no one, including Tua, has any idea how all this will play out. IMO he does not ride the pine for the next three years, who could blame him if he were to transfer. I made the comment several years ago on here that any recruit should take a hard look at where he is going and not get swayed by a coach or get caught up in the hype. He needs to understand the competition at his position and make a wise decision if he intends on playing beyond college. As we all know, 18 year olds don't always make the right decisions.
 

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop - NEW Stuff!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.