Should Tua be redshirted?

Moro Creek

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A third thing: it is abundantly clear - despite the beneficial to the defense touch tackle rule on quarterbacks - that there are plays Hurts can make when things break down that Tagovailoa will never be able to make. We all want to see Hurts develop as an all-around player but lets not forget that he's got game changing running ability for a quarterback.
Please expand on your knowledge of this.
 

rgw

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Please expand on your knowledge of this.
They were both getting blitzed, Tagovailoa showed no escapability while Hurts was making clear escapes where some DL touched him from behind with a finger tip to blow the play dead. I mean you can just watch'em play and see the different in quick twitch in those scenarios. Tagovailoa moves well for a QB...Hurts moves well for an athlete.
 

KrAzY3

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They were both getting blitzed, Tagovailoa showed no escapability while Hurts was making clear escapes where some DL touched him from behind with a finger tip to blow the play dead. I mean you can just watch'em play and see the different in quick twitch in those scenarios. Tagovailoa moves well for a QB...Hurts moves well for an athlete.
Hurts demonstrated it in the first A-Day game as well. Before then I said there was no way he'd start, after that I had to admit there was a chance.

It's one thing to say who has better athletic abilities, but Hurts has the best instinctual running abilities back there of any of the Saban quarterbacks, and I don't think it's close. That includes good athletes like Sims, Bateman, Tua, and Barnett. To illustrate the difference (not for your sake but just generally speaking), Bateman was supposed to be really fast, fast enough that he's a receiver now (Alabama experimented with that to). He just had no instincts when it came to escaping and when to run. On the other hand, it is second nature for Hurts. Even playing touch, he's hard to get to. We saw Sims struggle mightily on A-Day, in part because he wasn't quite as comfortable. Next to guys like Tua and Barnett, who have good athletic abilities and are capable runners, the difference is obvious.

My concern is that he doesn't end up being overly reliant on his running ability, and he can stay healthy by using is sparingly.
 

BamaMoon

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They were both getting blitzed, Tagovailoa showed no escapability while Hurts was making clear escapes where some DL touched him from behind with a finger tip to blow the play dead. I mean you can just watch'em play and see the different in quick twitch in those scenarios. Tagovailoa moves well for a QB...Hurts moves well for an athlete.
I'm not disagreeing with you totally, but I think Tua is ahead of Hurts in staying in the pocket and keeping his eyes up and looking to pass first and run second.

Now, comparing apples to apples, is Hurts a bigger, better runner than Tua? Probably, but I don't think the spring game proved that Tua couldn't scramble and use his legs if needed. When it's "one hand touch" on the qb, why even think about running?
 

rgw

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The next level for Hurts is utilizing those exceptional instincts for when the pocket is done, escape, then release accurate passes to open receivers when it is available. If Hurts is looking for throwing options, he certainly gave up quickly as a freshman. The hope is that when the opportunity is there that he uses the escape to pass it for explosive plays. That is even more back-breaking than a QB scramble because he's just made the secondary realize that they could always be wrong when he gets to the corner.
 

Moro Creek

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They were both getting blitzed, Tagovailoa showed no escapability while Hurts was making clear escapes where some DL touched him from behind with a finger tip to blow the play dead. I mean you can just watch'em play and see the different in quick twitch in those scenarios. Tagovailoa moves well for a QB...Hurts moves well for an athlete.
Thanks. For such a profound statement, I just though you may have seen something in practice that we didn't know about.
 

RTR91

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Thanks. For such a profound statement, I just though you may have seen something in practice that we didn't know about.
How was that a profound statement? It was pretty obvious during A-Day which one has more escapability.


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GrayTide

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Hurts is a natural, instinctive runner, while as a passer he looks mechanical. I imagine Jalen relied on his running ability more than passing in high school. Tua OTOH looks more natural as a passer but has the running ability to turn a sack into positive yardage. Both are still very young in their QB development process and barring an injury both have unlimited potential.
 

Alasippi

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Hurts is a natural, instinctive runner, while as a passer he looks mechanical. I imagine Jalen relied on his running ability more than passing in high school. Tua OTOH looks more natural as a passer but has the running ability to turn a sack into positive yardage. Both are still very young in their QB development process and barring an injury both have unlimited potential.
His high school team mostly ran the option out of the shotgun so he ran for a lot of yardage but he also displayed really good throwing ability especially on deep balls.
 

81usaf92

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What I find funny is how in favor of a returning starter at qb most here were, but how a good number still are open to Tua starting this year.
 

BamaMoon

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What I find funny is how in favor of a returning starter at qb most here were, but how a good number still are open to Tua starting this year.
Really? I haven't seen anyboy call for Tua to start over Hurts, based on what we know right now.

I think if would take a monumentally bad fall camp from Hurts for that to happen.

Now, Tua actually playing is what many people are in favor of and it sounds like CNS is too.
 

81usaf92

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Really? I haven't seen anyboy call for Tua to start over Hurts, based on what we know right now.

.
There have been plenty since A-Day that said they feel that there is a good chance there is a 'Real" qb battle, and they would like to decide the qb like we have done the last three years. The comment is mostly aimed at the 2015 crowd and somewhat the 2014 in that there were people saying "let the young bucks play over the 5th year because we need experience coming back.". I'm more saying its funny that we are actually talking about Tua's chances with our first returning starter at qb since 2013.
I think if would take a monumentally bad fall camp from Hurts for that to happen.

.
I think it would take 4-5 bad games to start the season. I think barring an injury Hurts is a 99.99% lock to start against the Noles
Now, Tua actually playing is what many people are in favor of and it sounds like CNS is too.
scan back to some posts way earlier in this thread and some threads immediately after the A-day game and youll see what I'm referring to.
 

KrAzY3

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Really? I haven't seen anyboy call for Tua to start over Hurts, based on what we know right now.
As has been noted, after A-Day, there have still been some rather, let's say positive comments about Tua.

However, things actually quieted down after A-Day, when as good as Tua looked, Hurts clearly looked better against the first team defense. Before then, there were in fact several posts along the lines of Tua will overtake Hurts, there is an actual quarterback battle going on, and I'm basically quoting here, "Hurts has to improve to keep his starting job", etc...

So, I think things have calmed down to a more objective perspective. Yes, Tua is good, yes Tua will probably play, no Tua isn't taking Hurts job unless something goes really wrong. But, things did get a little out of hand for a while.
 

rgw

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Thanks. For such a profound statement, I just though you may have seen something in practice that we didn't know about.
I do not have personal access to practices. I know a few people who do get their once in the Spring and Fall camp practice access. With that said, I don't think you need to see practices to see the difference after A-Day.
 

Moro Creek

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How was that a profound statement? It was pretty obvious during A-Day which one has more escapability.

I will be glad to answer your question. A profound statement is one made by an individual who shows deep insight and understanding for the statement they are making. From the posts I read by RGW, he is the most knowledgeable person on this site and his statement (which I showed in bold print) was by definition a profound statement. I may not agree with that statement after just watching the spring game, but I'm an old, senile person who requires more proof.
 

RTR91

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Today at the ESPN Car Wash, Saban said, "Tua is a very, very good player and we're happy to have him in the program. He's someone who needs to play some. I'm not creating a quarterback controversy here. Jalen Hurts is our starting quarterback."

Going to say he's not riding the bench all year.
 

4Q Basket Case

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Heard the interview, and several things were clear:
- Saban wishes he had tolerated the inevitable freshman mistakes and developed Hurts' passing in early games last year. Could have paid dividends in Baton Rouge, Atlanta, and especially Tampa.
- Hurts is the starter
- Tua will play early. My guess (not a Saban statement) is that he sits against FSU, and plays a fair amount against Fresno, and maybe CSU, though CSU won't be a walkover by any means.
- 4QBC interpretation: Tua will run the full offense when in the game. Objective is to not repeat last year's mistake with Jalen. Tua won't, however, start any game in 2017 unless Jalen is hurt (possible), or performance absolutely falls off a cliff (highly unlikely).
 
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JustNeedMe81

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Heard the interview, and several things were clear:
- Saban wishes he had tolerated the inevitable freshman mistakes and developed Hurts' passing in early games last year. Could have paid dividends in Baton Rouge, Atlanta, and especially Tampa.
- Hurts is the starter
- Tua will play early. My guess (not a Saban statement) is that he sits against FSU, and plays a fair amount against Fresno, and maybe CSU, though CSU won't be a walkover by any means.
- 4QBC interpretation: Tua will run the full offense when in the game. Objective is to not repeat last year's mistake with Jalen. Tua won't, however, start any game in 2017 unless Jalen is hurt (possible), or performance absolutely falls off a cliff (highly unlikely).

I want to add few things: I agree with all of things 4Q said, but one thing was left out. I seriously doubt Tua will run full offense early in the year. I think they will try and bring him slowly. I have no reason to believe that he would sit against FSU. Only way that happens if the game is close going into 4th quarter.
 

TiderJack

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I want to add few things: I agree with all of things 4Q said, but one thing was left out. I seriously doubt Tua will run full offense early in the year. I think they will try and bring him slowly. I have no reason to believe that he would sit against FSU. Only way that happens if the game is close going into 4th quarter.
He appeared to be running a lot of the offense in the spring game, maybe not full but certainly not vanilla. I agree that I think he may play a series or two against FSU depending on how the game is playing out.
 

Intl.Aperture

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He appeared to be running a lot of the offense in the spring game, maybe not full but certainly not vanilla. I agree that I think he may play a series or two against FSU depending on how the game is playing out.
But I thought they run a pared down and vanilla offense for the Spring game...
Those early routes and reads were not nearly the level of difficulty we will see being used by and against FSU. So I think what he was running was absolutely vanilla. Not throwing shade at Tua but there's knowing the playbook and there's KNOWING the playbook because you've run it against SEC defenses in the past. I'd say he will know the playbook by Fall, if not already, but I disagree that that A-Day game is an indicator of his grasp of the complete playbook.
 

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