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  1. #92

    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    Im a big Jalen fan.

    But I have this feeling that Tua is potentially a first pick type guy.
    And nobody steps in against our monsters on defense and shreds them from day one.

    I just think there has to be a better way than to sit a guy with this potential.

    If playing Tua a quarter and a half a game risks defeat, then sit him. But only if it plays out that way. Otherwise, play them both.

    It's just unfortunate that only a year separates these two.

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  3. #93

    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxTider View Post
    Im a big Jalen fan.

    But I have this feeling that Tua is potentially a first pick type guy.
    And nobody steps in against our monsters on defense and shreds them from day one.

    I just think there has to be a better way than to sit a guy with this potential.

    If playing Tua a quarter and a half a game risks defeat, then sit him. But only if it plays out that way. Otherwise, play them both.

    It's just unfortunate that only a year separates these two.
    And Blake Barnett gave people that same feeling.

    As did Phillip Sims.

    As did David Cornwell.

    QB is not a position where a coach can just say "we're going to let this one guy play this amount of time per game because he's so good." That's just asking for trouble.

    We all know Saban hates clutter. If he did what you think should happen, he would be driving a moving truck worth of clutter.
    "I don't know what class is but I can tell when one has it, you can tell from a mile away"
    -- Coach Bryant

    "We always talk about playing 60 minutes but this is a 60-10 game: the 60 minutes of the game and the 10 minutes in the locker room after the game that you remember for the rest of your life."
    -- Nick Saban day after beating Clemson

  4. #94
    BamaNation Hall of Fame BamaMoon's Avatar
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    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Intl.Aperture View Post
    I've seen a few people say they wouldn't be surprised if Tua is the starter by the end of the season. I disagree with that strongly.
    Yes, come to think of it, I do recall that being said a time or two. But, here's the thing nobody knows or can predict the future. How much does Jalen grow in the passing department and/or how much does Tua play??? And if he plays how good might he be after a lot of game experience?

    I think the likelihood of Tua overtaking him, even if he actually plays, is not real high, but I guess it's not impossible.

  5. #95
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    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolan View Post
    If you considered my reply harsh, or bashing like GrayTide jokingly said, then you must REALLY not like a lot of the others posts on Tidefans.

    Also, I like identifying logical fallacies as much as the next guy, but a strawman? It's a conversation about football.

    I'll clarify - I think Tua is AWESOME, Jalen is AWESOME, wish like heck we could RS Tua to create class separation and expect Jalen to have a HUGE year.
    Nolan, it may well have been unintended but you did misrepresent what he said. And yes, strawman, why not? Logic applies to regular conversation too.

    However I do not think your post was harsh. I lumped together my reply to two posts, yours and Krazy's. I think the rhetorical and dismissive tone of his post is harsh. Sorry if you felt I was misreprenting what you wrote

    Actually I recall you sticking up for me in another thread and I appreciate that.

  6. #96

    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Intl.Aperture View Post
    All I can say is that I'm amazed at how much Jalen improved from January 10th till now. He looked much more polished as a passer in just 4 months - now he has another 5 till the season starts and then he has the ability to continue developing during the season. If he was able make the jump he did in this short period of time I can't wait to see him in September.

    Listen, I'll eat my shoe if Tua usurps Jalen this season due to anything other than injury. He threw it nice against the 2nd team defense - AND they were playing vanilla. The moment he was in against the 1st team with blitzes he held the ball too long, he threw late over the middle and his mechanics fell apart. Be real. The kid is an amazing talent who WILL turn into a stellar college QB but he's not beating out Jalen Hurts for the job this season.

    He knows the game but you can't teach game speed. He's not acclimated to it yet and Jalen is. And it would take a LOT of reps to get him to a place where having linebackers who are twice as tall as the ones he faced in high-school, and likely as fast as many of his former receivers, are barreling downfield at him. That takes acclimation.
    Quote Originally Posted by TiderJ View Post
    This is the point people need to look at. Huge difference in 1's vs. 1's than 2's vs 2's. Saban even said it after the game. Tua is going to be an amazing QB but you can't really compare his performance to Jalen's in this game since it was basically apples vs oranges.
    Tua playing against the 2s is important to note for sure. But I think the issue with Tua when he went against the 1s was more him adjusting. Even if you are ready to move up a notch it sometimes takes a little bit to get comfortable with what you are seeing. I agree that Jalen isn't going to lose his job though. I just don't think I would take too much out Tua's struggles on those 2 drives just like I wouldn't proclaim him our new starter because of his play against the 2s.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTR91 View Post
    And Blake Barnett gave people that same feeling.

    As did Phillip Sims.

    As did David Cornwell.

    QB is not a position where a coach can just say "we're going to let this one guy play this amount of time per game because he's so good." That's just asking for trouble.

    We all know Saban hates clutter. If he did what you think should happen, he would be driving a moving truck worth of clutter.
    I think its fair to say at this point there is more validity to the comments about Tua than any of those guys. I don't remember watching A Day while those guys were here and being wowed. I also don't remember hearing reports from practice that any of those guys were really wowing people. I could be wrong and I'm too lazy to go back and make sure. I just think it seems clear that Tua is on a different level than most true freshman.

  7. #97
    BamaNation Hall of Fame BamaMoon's Avatar
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    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    Quote Originally Posted by RollTide_HTTR View Post
    Tua playing against the 2s is important to note for sure. But I think the issue with Tua when he went against the 1s was more him adjusting. Even if you are ready to move up a notch it sometimes takes a little bit to get comfortable with what you are seeing. I agree that Jalen isn't going to lose his job though. I just don't think I would take too much out Tua's struggles on those 2 drives just like I wouldn't proclaim him our new starter because of his play against the 2s.

    I think its fair to say at this point there is more validity to the comments about Tua than any of those guys. I don't remember watching A Day while those guys were here and being wowed. I also don't remember hearing reports from practice that any of those guys were really wowing people. I could be wrong and I'm too lazy to go back and make sure. I just think it seems clear that Tua is on a different level than most true freshman.
    That's my memory as well...What I remember hearing about Blake Barnett is that he was throwing mulitiple INTs in practice and scrimmages. I never heard glowing reports about any of the others from practices and I don't remember the last time we saw a freshman qb do anything close to what Tua did. He even had better numbers than Jalen Saturday.

    And yes, I know who went against first team and second team, but your point is well made that those other guys didn't light up anybody at anytime. Even the ESPN guys were drooling over Tua.

  8. #98

    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    Quote Originally Posted by RollTide_HTTR View Post
    I think its fair to say at this point there is more validity to the comments about Tua than any of those guys. I don't remember watching A Day while those guys were here and being wowed. I also don't remember hearing reports from practice that any of those guys were really wowing people. I could be wrong and I'm too lazy to go back and make sure. I just think it seems clear that Tua is on a different level than most true freshman.
    Quote Originally Posted by BamaMoon View Post
    That's my memory as well...What I remember hearing about Blake Barnett is that he was throwing mulitiple INTs in practice and scrimmages. I never heard glowing reports about any of the others from practices and I don't remember the last time we saw a freshman qb do anything close to what Tua did. He even had better numbers than Jalen Saturday.

    And yes, I know who went against first team and second team, but your point is well made that those other guys didn't light up anybody at anytime. Even the ESPN guys were drooling over Tua.
    My comment wasn't based on people's feelings after a spring game or camp. Just stating people had those same feelings at some point when those players signed.

    As B1G said Sunday or yesterday, we don't know how great any of AJ's backups could have been, but are we upset about it?
    "I don't know what class is but I can tell when one has it, you can tell from a mile away"
    -- Coach Bryant

    "We always talk about playing 60 minutes but this is a 60-10 game: the 60 minutes of the game and the 10 minutes in the locker room after the game that you remember for the rest of your life."
    -- Nick Saban day after beating Clemson

  9. #99
    BamaNation Hall of Fame TiderJ's Avatar
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    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    I think we will all agree we are in a very good place at the QB position.

  10. #100

    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    One thing I'd like to address is the notion of Tua playing some sort of special plays that take advantage of some abilities that only he possesses. I remember during AJ's tenure, some of us bringing up the idea of Blake Sims running wildcat. In theory it sounded good right? AJ can't really run, Blake could run and throw, so surely in some situations he'd have been better right? Well, that's overlooking the reality of benching one of the best college quarterbacks of the BCS era for a rough around the edges quarterback. It sounds good in theory, but in retrospect I now completely appreciate why that didn't happen.

    In this case though, I'm not sure Tua really has anything he can do that Hurts can't. Can he do some things better? Absolutely, but this isn't a case where he can run but Hurts can't, or he can throw the deep ball but Hurts can't. It's hard to justify the musical chairs aspect of swapping Tua in so he can do what exactly? I just don't see that as being advantageous or realistic. Having said that, if he is going to burn the redshirt, if that's a done deal, I would prefer he come into the game earlier and hopefully get to run a more wide open offense. That might keep him more engaged, help him learn, and keep Hurts out of harms way more often. But there's a big difference between Tua coming in late in the third quarter with a comfortable lead, or if Hurts gets his bell rung, and throwing him into a close game to run a series of plays because he might be able to do something a little better. May be he can run a few trick players here or there, but you take the guy with all the experience and the first team reps out only when it makes a heck of a lot of sense.
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  11. #101

    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    Quote Originally Posted by RTR91 View Post
    And Blake Barnett gave people that same feeling.

    As did Phillip Sims.

    As did David Cornwell.

    QB is not a position where a coach can just say "we're going to let this one guy play this amount of time per game because he's so good." That's just asking for trouble.

    We all know Saban hates clutter. If he did what you think should happen, he would be driving a moving truck worth of clutter.
    Your assuming those three names belong in the same breath as Tua. Not in my book.

    Either there is a competition or Tua transfers.
    So the real choice is play him or say goodbye.

    Saban has to provide this guy some playing time. And I honestly think he knows that.

  12. #102

    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxTider View Post
    Your assuming those three names belong in the same breath as Tua. Not in my book.

    Either there is a competition or Tua transfers.
    So the real choice is play him or say goodbye.

    Saban has to provide this guy some playing time. And I honestly think he knows that.
    And you're assuming Tua is going to bolt if he doesn't get to play as a true freshman.
    "I don't know what class is but I can tell when one has it, you can tell from a mile away"
    -- Coach Bryant

    "We always talk about playing 60 minutes but this is a 60-10 game: the 60 minutes of the game and the 10 minutes in the locker room after the game that you remember for the rest of your life."
    -- Nick Saban day after beating Clemson

  13. #103
    BamaNation Hall of Fame TiderJ's Avatar
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    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxTider View Post
    Your assuming those three names belong in the same breath as Tua. Not in my book.

    Either there is a competition or Tua transfers.
    So the real choice is play him or say goodbye.

    Saban has to provide this guy some playing time. And I honestly think he knows that.
    Thank goodness all of our highly rated 4* and 5* players don't feel this way. We would have 24 players on our roster. So glad Reuben, Dalvin, Rashaan, Da'Shawn and Robert Foster did not feel this way.

  14. #104
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Should Tua be redshirted?

    Quote Originally Posted by RTR91 View Post
    And you're assuming Tua is going to bolt if he doesn't get to play as a true freshman.
    That, I think, is the root of his concern. Not so much that Tua has to play because Jalen is a liability, but that Tua has to play right away or he will leave. This even though Tua's entire family is committed to the Tide.

    This isn't another BB family. Tua seems well grounded, and his family is saying all of the right things. I don't see him going anywhere due to playing time in this coming season.

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