Should Tua be redshirted?

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,932
15,934
282
Boone, NC
The one thing to remember about FSU is we're talking about a team that was 10-3 last year, brings back plenty of talent, and is a playoff contender. As has been mentioned, they basically have the same level of talent as Alabama has, so while I hope Alabama kicks their butts, it doesn't necessarily means anyone has to screw up for it to be a close game. Along those lines, in college, in the NFL, even if you have a great quarterback, if he faces a great defense something has to give. I'd love to see Hurts light up FSU, but if he doesn't put up good stats that doesn't necessarily mean he did poorly. That's an important thing to remember, did every quarterback that struggled against Alabama play poorly? Of course not, Alabama had a lot to do with that, and that's what I think gets missed sometimes when evaluating a guy. You have to look at the level of the competition, and then evaluate.
True...but we'll have played two elite teams/defenses in a row and the opportunity to compare will be unavoidable since JH will have had 8 months in between games.
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,766
6,532
187
Random thought I had. Under Saban we have had the best player in CFB at every position at least once with the exception of QB. We have actually had a player drafted 1st or 2nd at every position with the exception of QB and OLB (see below). I think this has caused us to be a little spoiled. We expect the BEST at every position. And frankly I think it might sting some fans a little that despite all our success we haven't had a Watson or Cam type of player.

WR - Cooper
RB - Richardson
C - Kelly
OG - Warmack
OT - Smith

DL - Dareus
ILB - McClain
CB - Milliner
S - Barron
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,932
15,934
282
Boone, NC
Random thought I had. Under Saban we have had the best player in CFB at every position at least once with the exception of QB. We have actually had a player drafted 1st or 2nd at every position with the exception of QB and OLB (see below). I think this has caused us to be a little spoiled. We expect the BEST at every position. And frankly I think it might sting some fans a little that despite all our success we haven't had a Watson or Cam type of player.

WR - Cooper
RB - Richardson
C - Kelly
OG - Warmack
OT - Smith

DL - Dareus
ILB - McClain
CB - Milliner
S - Barron
I guess I forgot about the #1 or #2 field goal kicker! :wink:
 

uofaJO1987

1st Team
Oct 25, 2011
340
2
37
Highland Home, AL
My prediction for the QB situation is that Tua will not redshirt and will see significant snaps during the season. Jalen will remain the starter, and next season it will be an open competition and whoever loses will transfer. Jones will end up staying as the backup.
 

JaxTider

Suspended
Jan 10, 2017
194
0
0
Quite honestly, the way some of you think, if the equivalent of the Tom Brady of today were currently a frosh at Bama, he simply couldn't see field for the next three years.

Straight talk about Jalen ...

He's a dynamic, talented player who's poise and ability to run put him in the starting spot over a very mediocre field of candidates last year.

That's it. It's as simple as that.

But any objective observer could see that, had we switched QBs with Clemson last year, we would have won that game by a minimum of 35 points. Minimum.

Point being, there is a vast improvement in the QB position possible over what we saw last year.

And that is why, in my book, there is no justification for believing that Hurts has "won" the position in any real sense.

He has to improve on his passing, big league.
We have to be able to be balanced and capable of a downfield threat against top completion this year, or else, we have to conclude that he may not be the answer.

He was a frosh. He did very well for a frosh. But he has not wrapped up that position for the remainder of his career at Bama.

I know. Coach Saban knows it. And Tua knows it.
 
Last edited:

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
Quite honestly, the way some of you think, if the equivalent of the Tom Brady of today were currently a frosh at Bama, he simply couldn't see field for the next three years.

Straight talk about Jalen ...

He's a dynamic, talented player who's poise and ability to run put him in the starting spot over a very mediocre field of candidates last year.

That's it. It's as simple as that.

But any objective observer could see that, had we switched QBs with Clemson last year, we would have won that game by a minimum of 35 points. Minimum.

Point being, there is a vast improvement in the QB position possible over what we saw last year.

And that is why, in my book, there is no justification for believing that Hurts has "won" the position in any real sense.

He has to improve on his passing, big league.
We have to be able to be balanced and capable of a downfield threat against top completion this year, or else, we have to conclude that he may not be the answer.

He was a frosh. He did very well for a frosh. But he has not wrapped up that position for the remainder of his career at Bama.

I know. Coach Saban knows it. And Tua knows it.
I'm stunned Alabama would have won with a guy with 30+ games experience compared to a guy playing his fifteenth game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JaxTider

Suspended
Jan 10, 2017
194
0
0
I'm stunned Alabama would have won with a guy with 30+ games experience compared to a guy playing his fifteenth game.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wooaaa. Hold on. I'm not downing Hurts. I'm simply pointing out the vast room for improvement between what Hurts was last year and what ideally a QB can be.

In my opinion, it illustrates why this talk of redshirting Tua is silly talk.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
Wooaaa. Hold on. I'm not downing Hurts. I'm simply pointing out the vast room for improvement between what Hurts was last year and what ideally a QB can be.

In my opinion, it illustrates why this talk of redshirting Tua is silly talk.
And the improvement comes with more experience. That's my point.

If you're going to make a statement about switching the QBs changing the outcome, you have to acknowledge one was in his third year of college football while the other was a true freshman.

Heck, Watson didn't even start as a freshman. He played at certain times, but he didn't start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
187
Wooaaa. Hold on. I'm not downing Hurts. I'm simply pointing out the vast room for improvement between what Hurts was last year and what ideally a QB can be.
First, Watson wasn't just any QB. He was an awesome QB. Tua may never sniff his jock as a QB. We have seen nothing to make us think that Tua will ever approach Watson as a college QB. Those possessions that Tua had in the 2nd half of the spring game - nothing like he would have faced against Alabama's defense in the championship game last year. We may never see a college defense that good again.

I think that you want Hurts to be something that he is not - a great NFL style QB. But you have missed the comments in this thread that show just how much better dual threat QBs are in this sport when it comes to winning championships. Hurts is an amazing dual threat QB. Tua is not. Tua is a pocket passer with some escapability. He may have a better arm, and he may be a better NFL prospect, but he may never be as good a college QB as Hurts is right now.

Be happy that you have Jalen. If you lose Tua for Jalen, you may actually be better off because that means that Jalen is really doing well.
 
Last edited:

JaxTider

Suspended
Jan 10, 2017
194
0
0
And the improvement comes with more experience. That's my point.

If you're going to make a statement about switching the QBs changing the outcome, you have to acknowledge one was in his third year of college football while the other was a true freshman.

Heck, Watson didn't even start as a freshman. He played at certain times, but he didn't start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hypothetical...

Imagine Tua red shirts, or let's say he sits for a year and transfers. And then he goes on to start somewhere else ... goes through some growing pains, but is ultimately the first player taken in the draft and a Hall of Famer. Meanwhile, Hurts improves, has a good career, is drafted in the 3rd round, and has a nice hand full of years as an NFL backup.

Now the question is, was it wiser to stick with experience, or should potential have been weighed more heavily?

Mohammed Ali wasn't ready to fight Floyd Patterson at 17. But if your a trainer and decide to work with Joe Schom heavyweight over Ali, ignoring his physical gifts and potential in favor of Joe's experience, you've really screwed up.

And it's a self fufilling prophecy. The guy that gets the playing time will always have the advantage.
He gets all of the meaningful game experience. He gets most of the practice reps and coaching.

And why? Because he is more ready right now? He's better for what ... three games ? Four games ?
And what about the 40 more games spanning the next three years.

It's not all about experience. Some of it is about release and accuracy and arm strength and yes ... potential.

Sometimes it's a trade off, and playing the guy who is the most ready now, and neglecting the guy with all the potential in the world... or asking him to give up most of his college career and "wait is turn" can turn out to be a monumental error.
 

JaxTider

Suspended
Jan 10, 2017
194
0
0
First, Watson wasn't just any QB. He was an awesome QB. Tua may never sniff his jock as a QB. We have seen nothing to make us think that Tua will ever approach Watson as a college QB. Those possessions that Tua had in the 2nd half of the spring game - nothing like he would have faced against Alabama's defense in the championship game last year. We may never see a college defense that good again.

I think that you want Hurts to be something that he is not - a great NFL style QB. But you have missed the comments in this thread that show just how much better dual threat QBs are in this sport when it comes to winning championships. Hurts is an amazing dual threat QB. Tua is not. Tua is a pocket passer with some escapability. He may have a better arm, and he may be a better NFL prospect, but he may never be as good a college QB as Hurts is right now.

Be happy that you have Jalen. If you lose Tua for Jalen, you may actually be better off because that means that Jalen is really doing well.
I love the idea of a duel threat. But when it mattered Hurts wast really a duel threat. He was a running QB who couldn't really pass.

Understand ... I like Hurts. I think he did a good job.
But I dont believe in the concept of someone owning a position until it is clearly and unequivocally taken from them.

I believe in constant competition until there is absolutely no room for agument.

And I think the most germane comparison at this point would be Hurts in last years A Day game versus Tua in this years A Day game.

Is there any comparison at all?

And if not, imagine Tua 8 or 9 games into his career vs Hurts against LSU or Auburn or Washington or Clemson.
 
Last edited:

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
Hypothetical...

Imagine Tua red shirts, or let's say he sits for a year and transfers. And then he goes on to start somewhere else ... goes through some growing pains, but is ultimately the first player taken in the draft and a Hall of Famer. Meanwhile, Hurts improves, has a good career, is drafted in the 3rd round, and has a nice hand full of years as an NFL backup.

Now the question is, was it wiser to stick with experience, or should potential have been weighed more heavily?

Mohammed Ali wasn't ready to fight Floyd Patterson at 17. But if your a trainer and decide to work with Joe Schom heavyweight over Ali, ignoring his physical gifts and potential in favor of Joe's experience, you've really screwed up.

And it's a self fufilling prophecy. The guy that gets the playing time will always have the advantage.
He gets all of the meaningful game experience. He gets most of the practice reps and coaching.

And why? Because he is more ready right now? He's better for what ... three games ? Four games ?
And what about the 40 more games spanning the next three years.

It's not all about experience. Some of it is about release and accuracy and arm strength and yes ... potential.

Sometimes it's a trade off, and playing the guy who is the most ready now, and neglecting the guy with all the potential in the world... or asking him to give up most of his college career and "wait is turn" can turn out to be a monumental error.
Welp. We might as well play Mac Jones while we're at it! He might be better than both. Only one way to find out.

Listen, I'm in favor of not red shirting Tua. But you're over the top with his idea he has to play in a game to show if he deserves the starting job over Jalen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JaxTider

Suspended
Jan 10, 2017
194
0
0
Welp. We might as well play Mac Jones while we're at it! He might be better than both. Only one way to find out.

Listen, I'm in favor of not red shirting Tua. But you're over the top with his idea he has to play in a game to show if he deserves the starting job over Jalen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Keep the guy involved. Give him some meaningful playing time. Withhold judgement. That's all I'm saying.

Don't get sucked into the argument that the QB spot has to be 100% settled and one guy has to have a vote of confidence before we can have any efficiency as an offense. That's overblown.

If they were both freshmen and we had only the A Day game to go on, what would we have right now?

We would have a QB competition.

So what is the relevance of last year?

Hurts may very well clearly end up being the best option. But I need to see more before I am convinced.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
Keep the guy involved. Give him some meaningful playing time. Withhold judgement. That's all I'm saying.

Don't get sucked into the argument that the QB spot has to be 100% settled and one guy has to have a vote of confidence before we can have any efficiency as an offense. That's overblown.

If they were both freshmen and we had only the A Day game to go on, what would we have right now?

We would have a QB competition.

So what is the relevance of last year?

Hurts may very well clearly end up being the best option. But I need to see more before I am convinced.
Unfortunately for us, we don't have to be convinced. Three people do - Nick Saban, Brian Daboll and Mike Locksley.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JaxTider

Suspended
Jan 10, 2017
194
0
0
Unfortunately for us, we don't have to be convinced. Three people do - Nick Saban, Brian Daboll and Mike Locksley.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well let's hope they read this thread before they make a big mistake. :)
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
44
kraizy.art
Quite honestly, the way some of you think, if the equivalent of the Tom Brady of today were currently a frosh at Bama, he simply couldn't see field for the next three years.
Tom Brady didn't really see the field for the first three years...

I was thinking about the overhype earlier, I mean we've seen Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers brought up, but they didn't even get that level of hype! Seriously though, in his first three years on campus Tom Brady threw only 20 passes!

But any objective observer could see that, had we switched QBs with Clemson last year, we would have won that game by a minimum of 35 points. Minimum.
While most of us would admit a wider margin, that's still quite a stretch. You just can't know that. Furthermore, are we including losing his playcaller? Because that part happened to and some people seem to be pretending it didn't. The bottom line though is you were comparing a veteran to a true freshman, and not just any veteran, you're comparing an early draft pick, Heisman candidate to a true freshman. I think everyone knew going into the season that Watson was going to be a better quarterback than Alabama had. Just like almost every program in the country. How about this though, if you swapped out that version of Watson for freshman Watson, Alabama wins and probably by a wide margin.

And that is why, in my book, there is no justification for believing that Hurts has "won" the position in any real sense.
I'm sorry but your "book" is missing some pages. He won the position, in a legitimate battle. One that included someone who had a start the year before, and Barnett, who is a legit NFL prospect. Saban has backed that up repeatedly. He won again on A-Day if you want to consider that a competition. He won the darn job and to insinuate otherwise is, and I hate to have to keep using this word, disrespectful.

I think most of us here can agree Hurts can and should improve on last season. We all can agree on that. Just like we all agree Tua can and should improve over how he looked at A-Day against the first team defense. What irritates me, is when Hurts gets judged unfairly and not given due credit. I give Tua credit, I've said it before, in terms of just being a pure passer, he is probably better! He is a legit NFL candidate, I'm not doubting or bashing the guy! I like him, I hope he sticks around! But, Hurts is on the cusp of being an elite college quarterback. That's just the truth. Was the end of the season rough? Yes it was, but he was playing elite defenses that other good quarterbacks struggled against to (like JT Barrett), he also had to juggle offensive coordinators, which was a worse situation than I think some seem to realize.

So, I give Tua credit. But, don't forget, Cam Newton backed up Tim Tebow. That's just how that works sometimes, it isn't all about who is going to get drafted higher. Perhaps a lot of this is looking at it backwards. Hurts won the job, the job is his. He'd have to do something to lose it now, which is of course possible.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
187
I believe in constant competition until there is absolutely no room for agument.

And I think the most germane comparison at this point would be Hurts in last years A Day game versus Tua in this years A Day game.

Is there any comparison at all?.
As to your first point, we all agree. Tua will push Jalen, and vice versa, this season. So you will have competition in the season that matters most - this one.

As to your second point, last year's A-Day game had the defense playing all out from the first snap, kinda like you saw in the second half this year. Do you really believe that Tua would have done as well against that last year? I doubt that he would have done any better than Hurts.

Remember, we were all amazed by Hurts in the A-Day game last year. We knew that he would have run wild in that game if not for the touch rule on the QB. And that against your defense - a defense that didn't want to give up a single point in the game.
 

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.