Should Tua be redshirted?

GrayTide

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And this is the bottom line.

Nick Saban turns 66 years old this Halloween. There are only THREE FBS coaches in 2016 older than Saban: Bill Snyder, Frank Solich, and Rocky Long. NONE of them coach at a higher stress environment than Saban and he MUST win now. If he's going to win number six, it MUST be now. It's about HIM winning now because even though none of us wants to think of it, the clock is ticking. (Just because he looks young doesn't mean he's 50).

Saban isn't going to play Tua right now just to keep him around for future years when Saban cannot even assume he will be here. IF he plays Tua, it will be because Tua is the BEST option for Alabama (and Saban) to win RIGHT now.

Coach Bryant won his last national championship on January 1, 1980. He was the same age then as Saban will be at the end of the 2017 season, 66.

There's not a Tide fan alive who thought that when Alabama was sitting perched at number two in the polls on October 11, 1982 - right after blasting Penn State, 42-21 - that we would lose four of the next six games, lose our first game at home since 1963, and lose the Iron Bowl for the first time in a decade.

My point is that Saban is going to do whatever is necessary for Alabama to win in 2017 - not worry about 2020, when he will be 70 years old.

With all due respect - does anyone REALLY think it would be that difficult for ALABAMA to get a quarterback?

Joe Pa won his last title at 60. Bobby Bowden won his last one at 69.
Excellent post, Bill. Unfortunately some people on here only see what they want to see and fail to see the big picture. In a perfect world we could RS Tua and get the separation we would like; I just don't see that happening. I believe that both Jalen and Tua are special talents and either could put us in the hunt for another NC. We should know more after this season, it is what it is. Thanks Bill.
 

BamaMoon

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And this is the bottom line.

Nick Saban turns 66 years old this Halloween. There are only THREE FBS coaches in 2016 older than Saban: Bill Snyder, Frank Solich, and Rocky Long. NONE of them coach at a higher stress environment than Saban and he MUST win now. If he's going to win number six, it MUST be now. It's about HIM winning now because even though none of us wants to think of it, the clock is ticking. (Just because he looks young doesn't mean he's 50).

Saban isn't going to play Tua right now just to keep him around for future years when Saban cannot even assume he will be here. IF he plays Tua, it will be because Tua is the BEST option for Alabama (and Saban) to win RIGHT now.

Coach Bryant won his last national championship on January 1, 1980. He was the same age then as Saban will be at the end of the 2017 season, 66.

There's not a Tide fan alive who thought that when Alabama was sitting perched at number two in the polls on October 11, 1982 - right after blasting Penn State, 42-21 - that we would lose four of the next six games, lose our first game at home since 1963, and lose the Iron Bowl for the first time in a decade.

My point is that Saban is going to do whatever is necessary for Alabama to win in 2017 - not worry about 2020, when he will be 70 years old.

With all due respect - does anyone REALLY think it would be that difficult for ALABAMA to get a quarterback?

Joe Pa won his last title at 60. Bobby Bowden won his last one at 69.
That's a great post! A little depressing, in some ways too. :wink:

While I think you are correct that CNS plays to "win now" I also don't get the impression he's slowing down either. "If I'm a betting man" I think CNS will continue to coach into his 70's.
 

JaxTider

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That's a great post! A little depressing, in some ways too. :wink:

While I think you are correct that CNS plays to "win now" I also don't get the impression he's slowing down either. "If I'm a betting man" I think CNS will continue to coach into his 70's.
While time waits for no man and anything can happen, Saban is a much younger 65 than Coach Bryant was. No disrespect to our beloved Coach Bryant, but he loved his Chesterfields and booze and had congestive heart failure as early as 1976.

By all appearances Coach Saban would have to coach beyond 80 to be as physically decrepit as Coach Bryant was those last few years.

In fact, given his physical challenges, it is a testimony to his shear strength and will that Coach Bryant coached as long as he did.
 

B1GTide

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While time waits for no man and anything can happen, Saban is a much younger 65 than Coach Bryant was. No disrespect to our beloved Coach Bryant, but he loved his Chesterfields and booze and had congestive heart failure as early as 1976.

By all appearances Coach Saban would have to coach beyond 80 to be as physically decrepit as Coach Bryant was those last few years.

In fact, given his physical challenges, it is a testimony to his shear strength and will that Coach Bryant coached as long as he did.
This is true, but at some point it becomes about more than "when will Saban die", right? Because this is a sport with no mercy for the weak. Every perceived weakness can and will be exploited. Other teams are already using Saban's age in recruiting, and that will only get worse over time. At some point it won't matter that he is still phyically and mentally capable of doing the job. At some point the things that have happened to every other aging coach will happen to Saban - his ability to win championships will be undermined by perception - and perception becomes reality.

Now, I am not saying that Saban could not continue to win a whole lot of games, but when does the "national championship" window close for Saban? Because it will. And Saban knows it as well as we do.
 

KrAzY3

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In terms of Saban's age, I was looking at it like, well as long as Spurrier is still coaching... Well, I think he was about 70 when he retires. Now, one key difference is that Spurrier wasn't in the position Saban was, it didn't seem like he retired purely because he was unable to keep going. It's easy to imagine Saban going 5 more years, and being effective in doing so.

However... it's pretty darn unlikely Saban can keep doing what he is doing until he's 80. We saw Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden coach until around that age, and there was no mistaking their age. They didn't have much tread left on their tires. It might be worth mentioning though, that in 2008, on the eve of turning 80, Bowden's team still had 9 wins and won their division. The thing is though, that you have to go back to 2003 for their last conference title.

You never know what point Saban would decide to retire at. He knows he's on a historically significant run, he knows every team he has, has a shot at a championship. That's going to be hard to walk away from. If I were to guess though, I'd expect him to retire somewhere between 70-75. He'll know before we do that it is time to go, most likely.
 

Moro Creek

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IMO, Coach Saban's feelings toward the way football is going and the stupidity of the NCAA will drive him to retire before his physical health. I believe he will retire sooner rather than later.
 

Crimson1967

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Paterno was a figurehead the last couple years, in my opinion. Saban said he never even saw him when we played them right before the scandal broke.

I think Bowden had a firmer grip on things, but he still had Jimbo shoving him out the door.


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rgw

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To be fair, they kept Jimbo for several seasons at OC only because Bowden gave him an expiration date on his tenure as head coach. But even so, the reason Bowden got pushed out was because the boosters and AD all knew about that deal and Bowden wasn't delivering a good product anymore. If FSU was still competing for ACC and national titles, Jimbo Fisher woulda just had hurt feelings and probably need to dust off the resume.
 

TIDE-HSV

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To be fair, they kept Jimbo for several seasons at OC only because Bowden gave him an expiration date on his tenure as head coach. But even so, the reason Bowden got pushed out was because the boosters and AD all knew about that deal and Bowden wasn't delivering a good product anymore. If FSU was still competing for ACC and national titles, Jimbo Fisher woulda just had hurt feelings and probably need to dust off the resume.
Bowden's age was being used in recruiting to hammer FSU over the head. It's already being used against Saban. Saban looks younger than he is and his energy is undeniable, but there will come a day when it'll start to matter. I'm still working into my late 70s and I've been having "he's semi-retired" used against me for 15 years or so now...
 

rgw

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Yep, and that is especially important at the top level of college football because the differentiator between champion and also-ran is talent. Alabama and FSU have different expectations than Kansas State. If you just want a well coached product that can win some games, you can let the coach go until he's really unable. If you want to win titles, you're probably going to push a great coach out the door early due to negative recruitment causing a talent deficit.
 

selmaborntidefan

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A couple of points here because I wasn't (necessarily) referring to Saban DYING so much as the fact that he is far more likely to worry about winning 2017 games than 2020 games.

Several coaches - Paterno, Bowden, Spurrier - have been mentioned but there's a key difference: NONE of those coaches was under anywhere near the pressure to win that Saban is, and they didn't coach in the SEC, either. Ok, Spurrier did BUT...he was at S Carolina. If he had been at Florida for the period of, say, 2002-2007, he'd have retired long ago. There's no pressure at SC comparably.

And while Saban wears his age better than so many others (he doesn't look like Tom Coughlin, for example), it's only a question of time. Bill Snyder can write his ticket at KSU. He built what they have and will be there until he chooses to not be there anymore.

Do we all agree that starting Cooper Batman for the Ole Miss game in 2015 was a mistake? No, it wasn't all his fault, but the perception of indecision could not possibly have helped the team chemistry and unity, either. Tua is a talent, but let's see what happens.

On a similar note: while nobody wishes it, there's no guarantee Jalen does NOT get hurt. We have a MOBILE quarterback and teams like to take shots at those to cripple them for the game. Things happen in football. One could easily argue that the injuries of Eddie Jackson and Bo Scarborough are the difference between us being 2-0 against Clemson the last two years as opposed to 1-1. (We could throw SD Harrison in there, too).
 

CrimsonProf

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A couple of points here because I wasn't (necessarily) referring to Saban DYING so much as the fact that he is far more likely to worry about winning 2017 games than 2020 games.

Several coaches - Paterno, Bowden, Spurrier - have been mentioned but there's a key difference: NONE of those coaches was under anywhere near the pressure to win that Saban is, and they didn't coach in the SEC, either. Ok, Spurrier did BUT...he was at S Carolina. If he had been at Florida for the period of, say, 2002-2007, he'd have retired long ago. There's no pressure at SC comparably.

And while Saban wears his age better than so many others (he doesn't look like Tom Coughlin, for example), it's only a question of time. Bill Snyder can write his ticket at KSU. He built what they have and will be there until he chooses to not be there anymore.

Do we all agree that starting Cooper Batman for the Ole Miss game in 2015 was a mistake? No, it wasn't all his fault, but the perception of indecision could not possibly have helped the team chemistry and unity, either. Tua is a talent, but let's see what happens.

On a similar note: while nobody wishes it, there's no guarantee Jalen does NOT get hurt. We have a MOBILE quarterback and teams like to take shots at those to cripple them for the game. Things happen in football. One could easily argue that the injuries of Eddie Jackson and Bo Scarborough are the difference between us being 2-0 against Clemson the last two years as opposed to 1-1. (We could throw SD Harrison in there, too).
No, it wasn't a mistake.

The decision there was either Coker was sick, Bateman was the root of a different strategy on offense, or - my own theory - Coker needed a kick in the pants to get his act together.

Bateman blinked and Jake answered the bell and won the team over. If this doesn't happen, we don't win a national championship.
 

rgw

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I'm not a believer in the moral victory but I do believe that you can learn a lot from a close loss. 2015 Ole Miss was one of those games for us. We found a quarterback and figured out what not to do on offense.
 

TIDE-HSV

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No, it wasn't a mistake.

The decision there was either Coker was sick, Bateman was the root of a different strategy on offense, or - my own theory - Coker needed a kick in the pants to get his act together.

Bateman blinked and Jake answered the bell and won the team over. If this doesn't happen, we don't win a national championship.
Coker was not well...
 

BamaMoon

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I'm not a believer in the moral victory but I do believe that you can learn a lot from a close loss. 2015 Ole Miss was one of those games for us. We found a quarterback and figured out what not to do on offense.
Tim Tebow made a speech after on Ole Miss loss that kinda turned their season around too :wink:
 

B1GTide

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I'm not a believer in the moral victory but I do believe that you can learn a lot from a close loss. 2015 Ole Miss was one of those games for us. We found a quarterback and figured out what not to do on offense.
Most championship teams have a loss on their resume in this era of college football. Sometimes the loss is a fluke, but more often it is indicative of issues that need to be addressed. Amazing things can happen when the right guys face that sort of challenge - lose a game and every game thereafter become a playoff game - no safety net.
 

Con

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Most championship teams have a loss on their resume in this era of college football. Sometimes the loss is a fluke, but more often it is indicative of issues that need to be addressed. Amazing things can happen when the right guys face that sort of challenge - lose a game and every game thereafter become a playoff game - no safety net.
I believe Coach Saban has even spoke about how that loss refocused the team.


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selmaborntidefan

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I'm not a believer in the moral victory but I do believe that you can learn a lot from a close loss. 2015 Ole Miss was one of those games for us. We found a quarterback and figured out what not to do on offense.
My reply is going to come across the wrong way, but what we learned on offense we already knew - namely, don't turn the ball over.

That being said - I DO agree with your point. The thing is that we don't KNOW about these moral victories until much later.

The funny thing is that after that game there were only two times all season I was "scared" we would lose - the last little bit of the Tennessee game and right before Griffith made the onsides kick against Clemson.

I've always regretted that I went to bed at halftime of the Ole Miss game, but cut me some slack....I was in Tampa and the game kicked off about nine pm there (and I had just flown in that morning to see my sister). I didn't bail on the team because I didn't believe, I went to bed due to sheer exhaustion. (I began having troubles at work over the next six weeks until my two weeks vacation because I was that tired overall. But enough narcissism on my part.


I've heard multiple things - Coker was sick (uh, then why did he play later that same game?), Kiffin talked Saban into it because they thought Bateman's skill set would work better against Ole Miss D....indeed, all of the things CrimsonProf listed plus a few more.

The END result was good but it sure wasn't fun getting there. It was insane pressure on the fans, too, with no margin of error. I thought we were good, but those games were utter pressure until the fourth quarter of LSU.

Looking back on it, though? It was one helluva ride in 2015.

FTR - don't redshirt Tua and he's free to leave if necessary. (Seriously - how many transfers can any of you name other than Troy Aikman and 2-3 others at most - who left a place and went elsewhere and did great?)
 

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