Should Tua be redshirted?

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
The only three certainties in life are death, taxes, and Tide fans getting self-induced anxiety over who gonna play quarterback back.

Ok I'll say it: Tua gonna transfer to Texas with Saban after the season. May as well get all the meltdown material out here right now. (Last paragraph in blue font).
 

Padreruf

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2001
8,688
12,229
287
73
Charleston, South Carolina
The only three certainties in life are death, taxes, and Tide fans getting self-induced anxiety over who gonna play quarterback back.

Ok I'll say it: Tua gonna transfer to Texas with Saban after the season. May as well get all the meltdown material out here right now. (Last paragraph in blue font).
Wow...you've gone and done it now! This thread will reach at least 100 pages if the mods don't shut it down before then. LOL!!!
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
44
kraizy.art
It's a fairly pointless argument anyway. If Hurts has improved enough to be consistent on the intermediate and long passes, reading defenses, holding on to the ball, and checking down to secondary receivers, he'll be fine. If he hasn't improved enough in those areas, then Tua will probably get a chance to prove what he can do. St. Nick doesn't make many mistakes. I'm sure he has this one covered too.
I think we can debate how much improvement is needed, but we'd both agree that some improvement is expected. If for some reason, he doesn't improve? There's no question that at some point Tua could pressure him for the starting job.

Saban has been adamant all spring that there is no qb controversy. I've never heard him be so insistent about it. I'm sure he's trying to instill in Hurts confidence.
One reason I do not like the idea of a quarterback battle, is I think it could potentially do harm to both involved. I spent some time looking up various stats and what not, and generally speaking quarterbacks improve over time. The instances in which this pattern seems most easily broken was when there ended up being some prolonged/mid-season quarterback battle. Now, sometimes you'd have almost a chicken and the egg question, did they struggle because they got benched or get benched because they struggled? But, the interesting thing is this sometimes seemed to hurt the development of the other quarterback in the battle as well. That's an interesting thing to consider, but I think there's some logic to it.

If a quarterback is the backup, and he knows that's his role, he can kind of settle into it. He can focus on what he needs to do, and develop. The starter likewise can settle into that role. The back and forth, and uncertainty that can bring sometimes seems to be able to throw both quarterbacks off, and cause both to lose some focus and confidence. Obviously, that could impact different players differently, but I think quarterbacks can benefit from certainty more than some other positions.

Let's hope he plays the entire 4th QTR of the season opener, too. :wink:
I'd love that, but man... I'm more expecting people to be complaining about Hurts. He'll be on his third OC for his third game, and all against elite defenses (really making for four straight elite defenses he'll have faced). It's got to be one of the toughest string of games any college quarterback has faced, I'll take an ugly win but I'll be ecstatic if we see Tua in a blowout.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,947
15,955
282
Boone, NC
I think there is a certain degree of "coach speak" here.

There's no way, after saying before spring practice that JH was the starter, that he'd say something different after JH had a successful spring practice and game.

But this much I know about team sports at the competitive level, coaches don't turn a blind eye to what's happening. But aside from JH's total collapse in the spring, there's no way CNS would reverse what he'd said a few weeks ago.

Edit: And I don't mean to suggests that I doubt CNS that JH is really the #1 and will enter the fall camp firmly entrenched. I think he was probably trying to temper expectations about Tua.
 
Last edited:

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,774
6,540
187
I think we can debate how much improvement is needed, but we'd both agree that some improvement is expected. If for some reason, he doesn't improve? There's no question that at some point Tua could pressure him for the starting job.


One reason I do not like the idea of a quarterback battle, is I think it could potentially do harm to both involved. I spent some time looking up various stats and what not, and generally speaking quarterbacks improve over time. The instances in which this pattern seems most easily broken was when there ended up being some prolonged/mid-season quarterback battle. Now, sometimes you'd have almost a chicken and the egg question, did they struggle because they got benched or get benched because they struggled? But, the interesting thing is this sometimes seemed to hurt the development of the other quarterback in the battle as well. That's an interesting thing to consider, but I think there's some logic to it.

If a quarterback is the backup, and he knows that's his role, he can kind of settle into it. He can focus on what he needs to do, and develop. The starter likewise can settle into that role. The back and forth, and uncertainty that can bring sometimes seems to be able to throw both quarterbacks off, and cause both to lose some focus and confidence. Obviously, that could impact different players differently, but I think quarterbacks can benefit from certainty more than some other positions.


I'd love that, but man... I'm more expecting people to be complaining about Hurts. He'll be on his third OC for his third game, and all against elite defenses (really making for four straight elite defenses he'll have faced). It's got to be one of the toughest string of games any college quarterback has faced, I'll take an ugly win but I'll be ecstatic if we see Tua in a blowout.
Yea, this was my concern last year as well. I felt like if they were going to go ahead with Jalen they needed to just name him the starter and give him all the reps. He was a TF and the more reps he got the better. Having round 2 of that would be a mistake.
 

Intl.Aperture

All-American
Aug 12, 2015
3,681
23
57
Chesapeake, Virginia
I'd love that, but man... I'm more expecting people to be complaining about Hurts. He'll be on his third OC for his third game, and all against elite defenses (really making for four straight elite defenses he'll have faced). It's got to be one of the toughest string of games any college quarterback has faced, I'll take an ugly win but I'll be ecstatic if we see Tua in a blowout.
Count on it. If Jalen struggles at all against FSU expect some people to be calling for him to get benched and for Tua to go in.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,947
15,955
282
Boone, NC
Yea, this was my concern last year as well. I felt like if they were going to go ahead with Jalen they needed to just name him the starter and give him all the reps. He was a TF and the more reps he got the better. Having round 2 of that would be a mistake.
I can't see that being a problem next fall camp. I'd expect JH will get 70-80% of the first team snaps.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,552
39,659
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
I think we can debate how much improvement is needed, but we'd both agree that some improvement is expected. If for some reason, he doesn't improve? There's no question that at some point Tua could pressure him for the starting job.


One reason I do not like the idea of a quarterback battle, is I think it could potentially do harm to both involved. I spent some time looking up various stats and what not, and generally speaking quarterbacks improve over time. The instances in which this pattern seems most easily broken was when there ended up being some prolonged/mid-season quarterback battle. Now, sometimes you'd have almost a chicken and the egg question, did they struggle because they got benched or get benched because they struggled? But, the interesting thing is this sometimes seemed to hurt the development of the other quarterback in the battle as well. That's an interesting thing to consider, but I think there's some logic to it.

If a quarterback is the backup, and he knows that's his role, he can kind of settle into it. He can focus on what he needs to do, and develop. The starter likewise can settle into that role. The back and forth, and uncertainty that can bring sometimes seems to be able to throw both quarterbacks off, and cause both to lose some focus and confidence. Obviously, that could impact different players differently, but I think quarterbacks can benefit from certainty more than some other positions.


I'd love that, but man... I'm more expecting people to be complaining about Hurts. He'll be on his third OC for his third game, and all against elite defenses (really making for four straight elite defenses he'll have faced). It's got to be one of the toughest string of games any college quarterback has faced, I'll take an ugly win but I'll be ecstatic if we see Tua in a blowout.
I think there's a lot of truth in this. The last thing on earth you want is a QB inserted in the game who feels like he has to press to prove himself. CNS ran a two QB system once when he was at LSU, but he indicated at the time that it wasn't his first choice. I guess it's just the age-old LSU QB problem and proves the old adage that, if you have two QBs, then you don't have a QB...
 

ALA2262

All-American
Aug 4, 2007
4,977
393
102
Cumming, GA
Now, there's a chance that Tua will be #2, but Mac Jones take snaps... Or if the new redshirt rules apply, Tua/Jones can play up to 4 games and then get redshirt.
Huh!? There is no such rule. You must be referring to the hardship waiver. Commonly, and incorrectly, called the medical redshirt rule.

12.8.3 Criteria for Determining Season of Competition.
12.8.3.1 Minimum Amount of Competition. Any competition, regardless of time, during a season in an intercollegiate sport shall be counted as a season of competition in that sport

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D117.pdf
 
Last edited:

Intl.Aperture

All-American
Aug 12, 2015
3,681
23
57
Chesapeake, Virginia
I fully expect that. Did people do the same with Coker? Sims?
I wasn't around here yet for Sims and don't have any Bama friends where I live so you tell me! I don't remember there being too many calls to bench Coker but I wasn't in the game threads. He was clearly the best option. Were people calling for Cornwell and Barnett? After the fiasco with Bateman it seemed pretty apparent that Coker was our best option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,947
15,955
282
Boone, NC
Count on it. If Jalen struggles at all against FSU expect some people to be calling for him to get benched and for Tua to go in.
JH won't have to play a perfect game for us to beat FSU.

But, if we lose to FSU because of poor qb play that would be a bad trend and I suspect you might be right.
 

Intl.Aperture

All-American
Aug 12, 2015
3,681
23
57
Chesapeake, Virginia
JH won't have to play a perfect game for us to beat FSU.

But, if we lose to FSU because of poor qb play that would be a bad trend and I suspect you might be right.
I dunno man. Even if we win on the strength of our RB's or even defense - if Jalen has anything less than a stellar game - I think there will be people who say it's time to make a change. I expect us to struggle with FSU because of the caliber of team they are. To some, anything less than a good ole fashion butt whipping will be an indicator that Jalen can't get it done through the season. I hope I'm wrong but the amount of speculation that's gone on after just 1 A-Day game in which both QB's performed well makes me afraid I'm not.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
44
kraizy.art
I fully expect that. Did people do the same with Coker? Sims?
They did it with Sims, some gameday threads turned on him. I have to admit I had my doubts in the Auburn game, and that ended up being proof of why you don't yank your guy. I have no idea how Sims would have been looked at had he been a returning starter. Coker, he had struggles but there didn't seem to be too many other options at the time.

There some irony in comparing how Coker and Hurts are viewed though. Coker was a fifth year senior who finished strong with 4 TDs/0 INTs in the playoffs, with a focused Kiffin and an offense that was working on all cylinders. We all know what happened with Hurts. The thing though is that Hurts accounted for 36 TDs and 9 INTs. Coker accounted for 23 TDs and 8 INTs. I'm certainly one of the ones that thinks a lot of the perception is skewed primarily because Clemson marched down the field and scored one more time.
 
Last edited:

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
I fully expect that. Did people do the same with Coker? Sims?

Hmmmmm.......

I think Coker is the best we have, but he's gone after this year, so any seasoning he gets wont be useful next year, plus he's just not that good.
46.7 completion percentage tonight, 2 interceptions and a few more that should have been picked off and can't throw an accurate deep pass.

I almost want give Barnett a shot, he looks so skinny though, needs a year to fill out some.
At this point I put Barnett in and see what happens for a few games. We gave up FIVE turnovers tonight and still had a chance to win, BB can hardly do worse. The upside is the payoff.

This defense is special, and the offense is good enough to win lot of games, but if I'm honest, I play for the future.
Barnett. He dominated at The Opening against elite talent, so he can compete at a high level.

I would rather watch him miss reads, miss deep throws, hit defenders between the numbers, with the knowledge that he will be here multiple years vs. A one and done.
I'm ready to just roll with Barnett. He could get ready for the next two years and heck may even get us to 10-2 instead of 8-4 or 9-3 with Coker/Bateman.
Not picking on anyone here as I'm hardly a genius myself on this. But yes - this is par for the course around here.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,947
15,955
282
Boone, NC
I dunno man. Even if we win on the strength of our RB's or even defense - if Jalen has anything less than a stellar game - I think there will be people who say it's time to make a change. I expect us to struggle with FSU because of the caliber of team they are. To some, anything less than a good ole fashion butt whipping will be an indicator that Jalen can't get it done through the season. I hope I'm wrong but the amount of speculation that's gone on after just 1 A-Day game in which both QB's performed well makes me afraid I'm not.
I think it'll likely be a tight game....one we could lose...but not catastrophic to the season's goals. If we were to lose because we just got beat is one thing...but if Jalen were to struggle to complete passes to move the offense/score points and convert 3rd downs it'll be a bad omen he hasn't taken the next step we expect him to take.

I'm not predicting that, at all. Personally I think he'll be much improved, but if the worst occurs against FSU I know how the average fan will react. They'll want to see Tua getting pushed into the mix. The more important question, "Will Daboll and CNS???"
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,774
6,540
187
To be honest, I don't want to lose to FSU partially because of the records that it would ruin. Saban is undefeated in openers and against former assistants and losing to FSU would ruin those.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
44
kraizy.art
The one thing to remember about FSU is we're talking about a team that was 10-3 last year, brings back plenty of talent, and is a playoff contender. As has been mentioned, they basically have the same level of talent as Alabama has, so while I hope Alabama kicks their butts, it doesn't necessarily means anyone has to screw up for it to be a close game. Along those lines, in college, in the NFL, even if you have a great quarterback, if he faces a great defense something has to give. I'd love to see Hurts light up FSU, but if he doesn't put up good stats that doesn't necessarily mean he did poorly. That's an important thing to remember, did every quarterback that struggled against Alabama play poorly? Of course not, Alabama had a lot to do with that, and that's what I think gets missed sometimes when evaluating a guy. You have to look at the level of the competition, and then evaluate.
 

bodiddle

All-SEC
May 14, 2006
1,338
0
0
The one thing to remember about FSU is we're talking about a team that was 10-3 last year, brings back plenty of talent, and is a playoff contender. As has been mentioned, they basically have the same level of talent as Alabama has, so while I hope Alabama kicks their butts, it doesn't necessarily means anyone has to screw up for it to be a close game. Along those lines, in college, in the NFL, even if you have a great quarterback, if he faces a great defense something has to give. I'd love to see Hurts light up FSU, but if he doesn't put up good stats that doesn't necessarily mean he did poorly. That's an important thing to remember, did every quarterback that struggled against Alabama play poorly? Of course not, Alabama had a lot to do with that, and that's what I think gets missed sometimes when evaluating a guy. You have to look at the level of the competition, and then evaluate.
That is one of the most insightful posts I have ever read.
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,810
6,245
187
Greenbow, Alabama
There a lot of posters in this thread who are ready to blame Hurts if we lose to FSU. FSU has pretty much equal talent as we do and their QB is the equal of Hurts. Somewhere over the years the concept that teams win and teams lose happens, and it is always a team effort, not any individual. Next thing you know posters will be blaming the officials if we lose.
 

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.