2017 NFL Draft Thread (April 27-29)

rgw · May 1, 2017

"Poor people guilt" is definitely real and it crops up in all sorts of weird ways. I think some professor could make a few papers from research on the obesity rate amongst those who break out of poverty. My thought being that if you come from a food insecure household that it is really easy to overeat because you almost feel ashamed to leave "good food" on the table. I've seen it anecdotally, I think it would hold up to some degree of statistical significance.

My issue is that I don't think the NFL can do much more without overstepping the employer's accepted relationship with employees. They put them all through a multi-day conference where they in-process the players to the league. They talk about the company people keep and personal finances. What more can they do without commandeering their employee's personal life?

I remember my military days. No matter how many mandatory training slide decks the military declares must be done quarterly, twice-yearly, yearly, etc that they will never eliminate the behaviors they're trying to target. Some soldiers still get DUIs. Some soldiers still sexually harass other soldiers and civilians. Some soldiers still make bad financial decisions. Some soldiers, unfortunately, will still take their life.

The difference with the military is that they are committed to iteration on the teaching points to improve the message and reinforcement on some schedule. The NFL does have the ability to iterate on their message but I'm not sure they have the power to reinforce the message. My reckon is that the rooks get all these death by powerpoints because they have no voice in the player's union while the union has pretty much fenced off veterans from the same treatment on some scheduled briefing event.

CrimsonProf · May 1, 2017

I have to think there is ample evidence that young pro athletes need regular counseling and you could write it into contract language.

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Cruiser · May 1, 2017

TideEngineer08 said:
Do you think Cowherd ever goes home and looks in the mirror and feels even an ounce of shame for being such a horse's behind?

No; I don't. Remember the "tornado bait" comment?

81usaf92 · May 1, 2017

RollTide_HTTR said:
Sorry, catching up on this a little. Chad Kelly has all the physical tools to be an NFL QB. But he is never going to be an NFL starter. Sure he could be the exception to the rule but people with his off the field issues very rarely work out at the QB position in the NFL.

What point are you trying to argue?

This one:

RollTide_HTTR said:
Chad Kelly has all the physical tools to be an NFL QB. But he is never going to be an NFL starter

or this one

RollTide_HTTR said:
. Sure he could be the exception to the rule but people with his off the field issues very rarely work out at the QB position in the NFL.

If you say he isn't going to be a long term starter then I think there is a good possibility of that coming true if he doesn't change, but if you are saying never then I think that's a harder thing to predict because there are like 25 teams that look at physical talent over character. Johnny is staring you right in the eye on the latter.

bamacon · May 1, 2017

rgw said:
Yep, yep. We had NO draft picks in the 2008 Draft (following the 2007 season). Turns out guys tend to get fired at this level of football when the talent pool has run dry. UGA's situation is a bit different because they had some tailbacks that would've gotten drafted this year but they decided to come back.

That was my main point earlier. Richt had fallen greatly from his earlier classes. Kirby was left a mess. Very apt comparison rgw.

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RollTide_HTTR · May 2, 2017

81usaf92 said:
What point are you trying to argue?

This one:

or this one

If you say he isn't going to be a long term starter then I think there is a good possibility of that coming true if he doesn't change, but if you are saying never then I think that's a harder thing to predict because there are like 25 teams that look at physical talent over character. Johnny is staring you right in the eye on the latter.

Ok, he may get a chance to start but he will never be a long term starter. Just like Johnny Football. That's what I mean by never be a starter. I don't really consider Geno Smith or John Beck NFL Starters just because they were given the opportunity to start. I consider starter more of a skill level than a status if that makes sense. So, sure John Beck started a few games at QB but he is not an NFL Starting QB when it comes to his skill level.

Nolan · May 2, 2017

rgw said:
"Poor people guilt" is definitely real and it crops up in all sorts of weird ways. I think some professor could make a few papers from research on the obesity rate amongst those who break out of poverty. My thought being that if you come from a food insecure household that it is really easy to overeat because you almost feel ashamed to leave "good food" on the table. I've seen it anecdotally, I think it would hold up to some degree of statistical significance.

My issue is that I don't think the NFL can do much more without overstepping the employer's accepted relationship with employees. They put them all through a multi-day conference where they in-process the players to the league. They talk about the company people keep and personal finances. What more can they do without commandeering their employee's personal life?

I remember my military days. No matter how many mandatory training slide decks the military declares must be done quarterly, twice-yearly, yearly, etc that they will never eliminate the behaviors they're trying to target. Some soldiers still get DUIs. Some soldiers still sexually harass other soldiers and civilians. Some soldiers still make bad financial decisions. Some soldiers, unfortunately, will still take their life.

The difference with the military is that they are committed to iteration on the teaching points to improve the message and reinforcement on some schedule. The NFL does have the ability to iterate on their message but I'm not sure they have the power to reinforce the message. My reckon is that the rooks get all these death by powerpoints because they have no voice in the player's union while the union has pretty much fenced off veterans from the same treatment on some scheduled briefing event.

I've never heard you mention this. When/where/how did you serve?

RollTide_HTTR · May 2, 2017

rgw said:
"Poor people guilt" is definitely real and it crops up in all sorts of weird ways. I think some professor could make a few papers from research on the obesity rate amongst those who break out of poverty. My thought being that if you come from a food insecure household that it is really easy to overeat because you almost feel ashamed to leave "good food" on the table. I've seen it anecdotally, I think it would hold up to some degree of statistical significance.

My issue is that I don't think the NFL can do much more without overstepping the employer's accepted relationship with employees. They put them all through a multi-day conference where they in-process the players to the league. They talk about the company people keep and personal finances. What more can they do without commandeering their employee's personal life?

I remember my military days. No matter how many mandatory training slide decks the military declares must be done quarterly, twice-yearly, yearly, etc that they will never eliminate the behaviors they're trying to target. Some soldiers still get DUIs. Some soldiers still sexually harass other soldiers and civilians. Some soldiers still make bad financial decisions. Some soldiers, unfortunately, will still take their life.

The difference with the military is that they are committed to iteration on the teaching points to improve the message and reinforcement on some schedule. The NFL does have the ability to iterate on their message but I'm not sure they have the power to reinforce the message. My reckon is that the rooks get all these death by powerpoints because they have no voice in the player's union while the union has pretty much fenced off veterans from the same treatment on some scheduled briefing event.

I get your point but they have weight requirements in their contracts and NFL teams are incredibly invasive already. The NFL has a very weird and unique relationship with its employees.

B1GTide said:
The teams hold "financial boot camps" and invite the rookies and their families to attend. It is usually a weekend function and you get wives and extended families in some of these things. They also have a whole bunch of resources for players to use, and a staff to contact, for free financial advice at any time. Some are internal NFL employees, but most are financial professionals in an outsourced program. I mean, I wish I had access to some of this stuff in my youth.

This is more than I thought they did. I still don't know that it is the right approach though and would need to research more about what they do and what would be effective.

B1GTide · May 2, 2017

RollTide_HTTR said:
This is more than I thought they did. I still don't know that it is the right approach though and would need to research more about what they do and what would be effective.

This is a huge concern for the league so you can bet that they are researching the issue and making changes all the time. They lose too many great players to this mess. So, aside from the long term concerns that the players have, the league has an interest in getting this right.

rgw · May 2, 2017

Nolan said:
I've never heard you mention this. When/where/how did you serve?

Weekend warrior with some full-time status over a 6-year contract.

CrimsonProf · May 2, 2017

I'm not entirely convinced the NFL is concerned that much. Take Eddie Lacy for example - he's had some injuries over his career but the knock on him is weight gain. That wasn't an issue at Alabama, so it leads me to wonder how much of these problems are on the club as much as the player and agent. If Nick Saban can keep these guys in line - with 80+ on scholarship - plus recruiting, etc. - why can't the NFL? Perhaps they should copy his model a little more closely.

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RollTide_HTTR · May 2, 2017

CrimsonProf said:
I'm not entirely convinced the NFL is concerned that much. Take Eddie Lacy for example - he's had some injuries over his career but the knock on him is weight gain. That wasn't an issue at Alabama, so it leads me to wonder how much of these problems are on the club as much as the player and agent. If Nick Saban can keep these guys in line - with 80+ on scholarship - plus recruiting, etc. - why can't the NFL? Perhaps they should copy his model a little more closely.

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This happens a lot. Saban and Bama have a lot more control over players than you do in the NFL. It's kind of like going from your parents house to college.

B1GTide · May 2, 2017

RollTide_HTTR said:
This happens a lot. Saban and Bama have a lot more control over players than you do in the NFL. It's kind of like going from your parents house to college.

Exactly - Saban holds their careers in his hands at Alabama. Once they get to the NFL, the union removes the ability of the league to do more than try. The union will never allow the NFL to put that much power over the everyday lives of the players into the hands of the teams. The players are doing this to themselves.

gtgilbert · May 2, 2017

B1GTide said:
Exactly - Saban holds their careers in his hands at Alabama. Once they get to the NFL, the union removes the ability of the league to do more than try. The union will never allow the NFL to put that much power over the everyday lives of the players into the hands of the teams. The players are doing this to themselves.

Yep - we can put them on a nutrition plan to hit their target weights and then give them mandatory conditioning if they're out breaking the nutrition rules. Plus since we have more players, if a guy doesn't make his weight there is a good chance there's someone right behind him working harder to make their weights and get their reps. the NFL doesn't have as deep a bench and therefore not quite as much competition at times.

RTR91 · May 3, 2017

Teams wary of Reuben Foster's shoulder but 49ers comfortable

A major reason former Alabama linebacker Reuben Foster slipped to No. 31 in the first round of last week's draft is a shoulder condition that worried teams and could jeopardize his rookie season, per league sources.

Despite surgery on his right rotator cuff, Foster's right shoulder was worrisome enough that some teams did not consider drafting him.

"The surgery didn't take," said one well-placed source with knowledge of the injury.

Last week, USA Today Sports reported that Foster slipped in the draft because at least one team was concerned he would need additional shoulder surgery.

Bamabuzzard · May 3, 2017

CrimsonProf said:
I'm not entirely convinced the NFL is concerned that much. Take Eddie Lacy for example - he's had some injuries over his career but the knock on him is weight gain. That wasn't an issue at Alabama, so it leads me to wonder how much of these problems are on the club as much as the player and agent. If Nick Saban can keep these guys in line - with 80+ on scholarship - plus recruiting, etc. - why can't the NFL? Perhaps they should copy his model a little more closely.

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No matter the sport. Once a player reaches the professional level of most any sport, more personal responsibility is shifted to the player. These organizations do not have the time nor the interest in continuing the baby sitting ways these players have gotten used to through out their sports lives. They are professionals and the organizations treat them as such.

RollTide_HTTR · May 3, 2017

RTR91 said:
Teams wary of Reuben Foster's shoulder but 49ers comfortable

So, I don't know how much everyone knows about the NFL and specifically the Redskins but they recently fired (it was ugly) their GM. That GM used to have a scouting business where teams would hire him because he is really well respected as a personnel guy. Well, after they fired him they still kept using his draft board and it leaked that maybe 1 to 2 other teams had hired him as well. I am pretty convinced one of those teams is the 49ers. They are the two teams that seemed to be perfectly comfortable drafting all of the Bama players. Further I wonder if the former Redskins GM used some of the information he had received while with the Redskins to help out the 49ers and other teams. The Redskins have quite a few connections inside the Alabama program but maybe most importantly their team doctor is James Andrews. Anyway, I know this sound conspiratorial but I'm pretty convinced this is how it went down since both teams seemed so comfortable with the Alabama players with injuries.

JustNeedMe81 · May 3, 2017

Raiders Considered Cam Robinson

I find this interesting...

B1GTide · May 3, 2017

RollTide_HTTR said:
So, I don't know how much everyone knows about the NFL and specifically the Redskins but they recently fired (it was ugly) their GM. That GM used to have a scouting business where teams would hire him because he is really well respected as a personnel guy. Well, after they fired him they still kept using his draft board and it leaked that maybe 1 to 2 other teams had hired him as well. I am pretty convinced one of those teams is the 49ers. They are the two teams that seemed to be perfectly comfortable drafting all of the Bama players. Further I wonder if the former Redskins GM used some of the information he had received while with the Redskins to help out the 49ers and other teams. The Redskins have quite a few connections inside the Alabama program but maybe most importantly their team doctor is James Andrews. Anyway, I know this sound conspiratorial but I'm pretty convinced this is how it went down since both teams seemed so comfortable with the Alabama players with injuries.

I didn't think that Andrews did the work on Foster's shoulder.

RollTide_HTTR · May 3, 2017

B1GTide said:
I didn't think that Andrews did the work on Foster's shoulder.

I don't think he did but I would assume he has some info on it or at least one of the Redskins connections would. Apparently one of the front office guys has a good relationship with some Alabama guys.

2017 NFL Draft Thread (April 27-29)

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