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G-VilleTider said:

Hmm, your off button must be different from mine. When my TV is off, it doesn't try to convince my that my beliefs are "fairy tales".

Jon, my point is just that atheists often hold onto their belief that there is no God or gods just as fervently as believers in different faiths hold onto theirs. And since there are no facts or evidence (beyond anecdotal) to support any of those beliefs, I think it is reasonable to think of atheism the same way as I do for all the others. As simply one's own personal beliefs as to how the world works.

You are obviously a very intelligent person. Can you see how I view people arguing unprovable beliefs as absolute fact, whether those be that there is no God, that aliens seeded the planet, that we all have animal spirits, or that Jesus rose from the grave, as just different flavors of religion/belief system/faith or whatever else you want to call it.

I would think that about the only people who are truly without a religion/belief system/faith, are the agnostic.

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technically I am an agnostic atheist, meaning I don't know for certain but that I have seen no evidence to convince me that there are gods or even a single god. I am open to evidence, and have stated such in this very thread. Still waiting but my expectation is that none is forthcoming as I've also mentioned in this thread that your clan has had 2000 years and has offered exactly nothing in the way of evidence. That isn't a religion. Religions require faith and faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved.

G-VilleTider said:

I admire your faith. I truly do; for I share your belief in God. But there is no proof either way ... my guess is by design since our religion (and the religion of atheism) is one of faith not proof.

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I used the word evidence not proof. In this case, I referred to the incomprehensibly complex and working creation as evidence of an infinite Creator, with all the attributes and more, named in previous posts. This is in accordance with the Scripture itself, "...that which is known about God is evident within them, for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood by that which has been made, so that they are without excuse..." I.e., the creation demonstrates, not only the existence of God, but reveals a great deal about who He is.

Many misunderstand what Biblical faith is. It is not some nebulous desire for something one wants, wishing that that desire be fulfilled, but "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." That is, it is based on one or both of two things: objective, observable fact and/or confidence in the veracity of God, Who has proven Himself worthy of trust.

We can't see the wind or electricity, etc., but we see the evidence of their power and use it. Legal convictions based on circumstantial evidence are conclusions drawn from that evidence, there is no eyewitness. All matter is made from things we can't see, "...by faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that what is seen is made of things which are not visible..." We continue to find more things that previously were not visible as technology advances. (The complexity and order that God has designed and implemented is further revealed as technology advances.)

I gave the simple example of marriage as it was originally conceived, being an evidence of a transcendent and benevolent Creator. One can draw whatever conclusions they wish, but the Lord has provided plenty of evidence of His existence and divine nature.

One of the primary purposes of creation is that man might receive the forgiveness of his sin. "...God is not willing that any should perish but that all might come to the knowledge of the truth..." He said this in reference to salvation.