News Article: Why was Dee Milliner a NFL Bust?

RollTide_HTTR

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One last comment on this. We also have to project Bama players to the NFL and that's obviously not true for current NFL players. There are a few guys like Julio, Dareus, & Cooper who were obviously going to succeed in the NFL but a lot of the other Bama guys drafted were harder to know for sure. Just look at what happened to Trent and is happening to Fluker right now. Fluker is arguably the best RT we have had under Saban and he might end up being a below average starter or even a career backup in the NFL.
 

HartselleTider

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I can't disagree more. And I don't think an exhibition game that hasn't been around since the 70s is a good indicator. And even if it was, it's not that impressive that a team full of College All Stars can only sometimes beat a team that is basically playing a preseason game.

It's a great indicator, we just can't be so hard headed in how we view it. Alabama is a college All Star team. Secondly, the players in college football now are significantly bigger, stronger, faster, and more physically mature than they were 40 years ago. Even coming out of high school the gap has closed physically.

You really think Danny Shelton would start over Da'Ron Payne at Alabama? He's been nothing but a disappointment for Cleveland. Even if you compare what he was at Washington, I still don't think he starts over Payne in the SEC. Nassib wouldn't start over Tomlinson or Jonathan Allen. I think it's an absurd assertion to be honest.

I just think they find a spot for Ryan Anderson on Bama's defense last year. Even with Ogbah or Collins. Not to mention Foster.

You can't convince me Britt or Coleman would start over Ridley or ArDarius Stewart last year. Osweiler is terrible. He was terrible coming out of college. The NFL is just stupid enough over and over and over again.

Anyway, we're going in circles now newbie. Take care.
 

JustNeedMe81

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It's a great indicator, we just can't be so hard headed in how we view it. Alabama is a college All Star team. Secondly, the players in college football now are significantly bigger, stronger, faster, and more physically mature than they were 40 years ago. Even coming out of high school the gap has closed physically.

You really think Danny Shelton would start over Da'Ron Payne at Alabama? He's been nothing but a disappointment for Cleveland. Even if you compare what he was at Washington, I still don't think he starts over Payne in the SEC. Nassib wouldn't start over Tomlinson or Jonathan Allen. I think it's an absurd assertion to be honest.

I just think they find a spot for Ryan Anderson on Bama's defense last year. Even with Ogbah or Collins. Not to mention Foster.

You can't convince me Britt or Coleman would start over Ridley or ArDarius Stewart last year. Osweiler is terrible. He was terrible coming out of college. The NFL is just stupid enough over and over and over again.

Anyway, we're going in circles now newbie. Take care.
I think its a silly argument. There have been lot of college players who performed exceptionally at college level and then move on to NFL and found out that they were average. Can Bama defense of 2011, 2015 or 2016 beat a NFL team? yes and No. I would say it's a battle but it would be 50/50 ... now let's get back to topic.

I think for every 50 players Alabama puts in NFL, there will be at least 5 busts.
 

teamplayer

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Injuries, bad teammates, being overdrafted a tad. It all plays a part. Some guys don't work out, it seems like 2/3 of the first round is a bust anyway...I don't get the big deal made of it.
I agree. There is plenty of talent for much less money in rounds two through the end. I think teams would get much better value by not getting awed by "measurables" and combine workouts and basing picks on what guys did when they faced top notch talent on other teams in college. For example, the top pick this year from A&M will get his sacks from time to time, which will keep him in the money, but I'd also bet that he will absolutely disappear most of the time. Then again, I don't get paid the big bucks like these "knowledgeable" scouts and execs, so what do I know?
Edit- I forgot to add that teams could acquire proven players through trades and free agency. At least that way you know what to expect when you pay big bucks. These teams that constantly flush big money down the toilet on first round busts seem arrogantly stupid.
 
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RollTide_HTTR

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It's a great indicator, we just can't be so hard headed in how we view it. Alabama is a college All Star team. Secondly, the players in college football now are significantly bigger, stronger, faster, and more physically mature than they were 40 years ago. Even coming out of high school the gap has closed physically.

You really think Danny Shelton would start over Da'Ron Payne at Alabama? He's been nothing but a disappointment for Cleveland. Even if you compare what he was at Washington, I still don't think he starts over Payne in the SEC. Nassib wouldn't start over Tomlinson or Jonathan Allen. I think it's an absurd assertion to be honest.

I just think they find a spot for Ryan Anderson on Bama's defense last year. Even with Ogbah or Collins. Not to mention Foster.

You can't convince me Britt or Coleman would start over Ridley or ArDarius Stewart last year. Osweiler is terrible. He was terrible coming out of college. The NFL is just stupid enough over and over and over again.

Anyway, we're going in circles now newbie. Take care.
I really hope you are kidding with some of this. Foster is great but there is no way in hell Anderson would start over Collins or Ogbah. Ridley over Coleman and Britt? Fine you can make an argument. Stewart? Absolutely no way at least not at this point. Osweiler is their backup who they traded for simply to get a draft pick and they are considering letting him go and he would still have started over Jalen last year. They have a horrific QB situation and yet all 3 of their QBs would be upper tier college starters. As for the DL guys here are the stats of their last year in college...

Carl Nassib - 46 Tackles, 19.5 TFL, 15.5 sacks.
Danny Shelton - 94 tackles, 17 TFL, 9 sacks.
 

Toddrn

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According to Spotrac.com Dee got a 7.588 million dollar signing bonus in 2013. If he was wise with that money he could be set for life. I would love to be a bust like that. RTR
 

HartselleTider

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I think its a silly argument. There have been lot of college players who performed exceptionally at college level and then move on to NFL and found out that they were average. Can Bama defense of 2011, 2015 or 2016 beat a NFL team? yes and No. I would say it's a battle but it would be 50/50 ... now let's get back to topic.

I think for every 50 players Alabama puts in NFL, there will be at least 5 busts.

Conversely, there have been a lot of players who were average in college and became pro bowlers in the NFL. And I mean a LOT.

If anyone's argument is that there's not enough great talent coming out of college to keep 32 NFL franchises stocked with talent, that's the point I made to begin with. The bottom feeder rosters in the NFL are terrible. Just because they have "NFL" stamped on their head doesn't mean they're any good. They're all trying to replace the entire bottom third of their rosters because the players simply aren't good enough.
 

HartselleTider

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I really hope you are kidding with some of this. Foster is great but there is no way in hell Anderson would start over Collins or Ogbah. Ridley over Coleman and Britt? Fine you can make an argument. Stewart? Absolutely no way at least not at this point. Osweiler is their backup who they traded for simply to get a draft pick and they are considering letting him go and he would still have started over Jalen last year. They have a horrific QB situation and yet all 3 of their QBs would be upper tier college starters. As for the DL guys here are the stats of their last year in college...

Carl Nassib - 46 Tackles, 19.5 TFL, 15.5 sacks.
Danny Shelton - 94 tackles, 17 TFL, 9 sacks.

College stats from other conferences aren't a great indicator. See how that works? Neither of em did anything until their senior year. One year wonders. But, it's the Browns drafting them so what do you expect...

Stop asking am I serious and attempt to make an intelligent argument.

Deiter had 1,000+ yards receiving and 10 TD's elsewhere, so obviously he would start for Alabama over ArDarius Stewart right? Remember what Jeremiah Masoli did to the Pac-12 before he transferred to Ole Miss and played against the SEC every week? Its a different ball game brother.
 

RTR91

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College stats from other conferences aren't a great indicator. See how that works? Neither of em did anything until their senior year. One year wonders. But, it's the Browns drafting them so what do you expect...

Stop asking am I serious and attempt to make an intelligent argument.

Deiter had 1,000+ yards receiving and 10 TD's elsewhere, so obviously he would start for Alabama over ArDarius Stewart right? Remember what Jeremiah Masoli did to the Pac-12 before he transferred to Ole Miss and played against the SEC every week? Its a different ball game brother.
Thanks for the reminder, Mr. Flair.

Your comparison of Deiter-Ardarius is an example of why a guy might not immediately play in the NFL, though. Deiter came to Alabama to develop as a complete player. That's one knock on him. Ardarius was his in his fourth season in the program. There's knock number two on Deiter.

See why a guy might not immediately explode on the scene in the NFL when he has more mature guys in front of him?

You have another bad example when you bring up Masoli. He was a system QB for Oregon. He didn't fit what Houston Nutt does.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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You have another bad example when you bring up Masoli. He was a system QB for Oregon. He didn't fit what Houston Nutt does.
Yup. I would add to this that he had just had a ton of off the field issues as well. It shouldn't be surprising he didn't live up to his earlier play.

College stats from other conferences aren't a great indicator. See how that works? Neither of em did anything until their senior year. One year wonders. But, it's the Browns drafting them so what do you expect...

Stop asking am I serious and attempt to make an intelligent argument.

Deiter had 1,000+ yards receiving and 10 TD's elsewhere, so obviously he would start for Alabama over ArDarius Stewart right? Remember what Jeremiah Masoli did to the Pac-12 before he transferred to Ole Miss and played against the SEC every week? Its a different ball game brother.
Deiter was at Bowling Green. This is why I keep asking if you are serious, your arguments make no sense. You can't possibly believe playing in the MAC is comparable to playing at a Power 5 school. There is also a significant difference between elite and good production. Deiter barely had 1,000 yards and 10 tds, thats solid but not ground breaking.

However, its not about individual players its about the overall idea that Bama could hold its own against a NFL team or that Cleveland only had 2 players that would start at Bama. I will agree I exaggerated when I said every NFL starter would start at Bama. Clearly there are a few players each year at Bama who could replace NFL starters especially if you find the right situation for each individual player. My overall point is that any college team would get destroyed by an NFL team. Remember what LSU did to our offense? That is what would happen against probably every NFL team but with the addition of a great offense (relative to college offenses).

Sorry, I'll move on. Back to the original point. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but it seems to me that CB is one of the hardest positions to scout. Maybe because it's a harder transition to the NFL than some other positions?
 

81usaf92

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I think it's possible. I think it'd be a lot closer than most think. It wouldn't be some 5 TD beatdown at the hands of the Cleveland Browns. I'm convinced of that.

Furthermore, I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison. The practice time is obviously different. Let Alabama players and their coaches practice and prepare the same amount as an NFL team and see what happens.

These guys don't suddenly morph into some supreme being 6 months after they're drafted. Or even 2 years after they're drafted. A lot of em are the same players in the NFL that they were in college. We've seen kids come straight out of the SEC and physically dominate NFL competition immediately. They're simply physically superior to a lot of the average Joe starters in the NFL.

I remember the Chicago All Star game where the college All Stars would play the Superbowl champions. The college All Stars won sometimes. And that was against the best team in the NFL. Not the worst. Furthermore, underclassman weren't allowed to play in the game. That's the difference between having Cam Newton, or Adrian Peterson, or Julio Jones out there competing for the college All Stars and instead having guys like Ricky Stanzi, Bilal Powell, and Greg Salas.
Bama would lose by 3 tds to any NFL team. The comparison is by far one of the most absurd. I don't know why people continue this debate?
 

81usaf92

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It's a great indicator, we just can't be so hard headed in how we view it. Alabama is a college All Star team. Secondly, the players in college football now are significantly bigger, stronger, faster, and more physically mature than they were 40 years ago. Even coming out of high school the gap has closed physically.

You really think Danny Shelton would start over Da'Ron Payne at Alabama? He's been nothing but a disappointment for Cleveland. Even if you compare what he was at Washington, I still don't think he starts over Payne in the SEC. Nassib wouldn't start over Tomlinson or Jonathan Allen. I think it's an absurd assertion to be honest.

I just think they find a spot for Ryan Anderson on Bama's defense last year. Even with Ogbah or Collins. Not to mention Foster.

You can't convince me Britt or Coleman would start over Ridley or ArDarius Stewart last year. Osweiler is terrible. He was terrible coming out of college. The NFL is just stupid enough over and over and over again.

Anyway, we're going in circles now newbie. Take care.
The NFL in the 70's and 60's was looked at as the same as professional softball is now unless you played for the blue bloods. Most NFL teams were made from clubs that wanted to continue playing football after college. Playing at Georgia Tech was more of an achievement than playing for the Lions back then. The NFL has become way deeper in talent with more experience around them.
 

DzynKingRTR

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Sorry, I'll move on. Back to the original point. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but it seems to me that CB is one of the hardest positions to scout. Maybe because it's a harder transition to the NFL than some other positions?
CB and QB seem to have the most busts. I think both suffer from the same fatal flaw; teams draft these positions higher than they should have.
 

4Q Basket Case

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I think it's possible. I think it'd be a lot closer than most think. It wouldn't be some 5 TD beatdown at the hands of the Cleveland Browns. I'm convinced of that.

Furthermore, I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison. The practice time is obviously different. Let Alabama players and their coaches practice and prepare the same amount as an NFL team and see what happens.

These guys don't suddenly morph into some supreme being 6 months after they're drafted. Or even 2 years after they're drafted. A lot of em are the same players in the NFL that they were in college. We've seen kids come straight out of the SEC and physically dominate NFL competition immediately. They're simply physically superior to a lot of the average Joe starters in the NFL.

I remember the Chicago All Star game where the college All Stars would play the Superbowl champions. The college All Stars won sometimes. And that was against the best team in the NFL. Not the worst. Furthermore, underclassman weren't allowed to play in the game. That's the difference between having Cam Newton, or Adrian Peterson, or Julio Jones out there competing for the college All Stars and instead having guys like Ricky Stanzi, Bilal Powell, and Greg Salas.
How many NFL-ready players does Alabama have in any one year? Six to eight, at the most.

How many NFL players does the worst NFL team have? 48.

In a game with equal motivation, the worst NFL team would beat the best college team by 4-5 touchdowns.

Regarding why some Alabama players don't live up to expectations: the gross number is a function of how many were drafted in the first place. The right comparison is those who didn't make it vs. those who had a chance to begin with.

But talking heads, ink-stained wretches, and talk-show callers can't be bothered by arithmetic inconveniences.

As Lucius Accius said, "Let them hate, so long as they fear." And they do fear.
 
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HartselleTider

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Yup. I would add to this that he had just had a ton of off the field issues as well. It shouldn't be surprising he didn't live up to his earlier play.



Deiter was at Bowling Green. This is why I keep asking if you are serious, your arguments make no sense. You can't possibly believe playing in the MAC is comparable to playing at a Power 5 school. There is also a significant difference between elite and good production. Deiter barely had 1,000 yards and 10 tds, thats solid but not ground breaking.

However, its not about individual players its about the overall idea that Bama could hold its own against a NFL team or that Cleveland only had 2 players that would start at Bama. I will agree I exaggerated when I said every NFL starter would start at Bama. Clearly there are a few players each year at Bama who could replace NFL starters especially if you find the right situation for each individual player. My overall point is that any college team would get destroyed by an NFL team. Remember what LSU did to our offense? That is what would happen against probably every NFL team but with the addition of a great offense (relative to college offenses).

Sorry, I'll move on. Back to the original point. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but it seems to me that CB is one of the hardest positions to scout. Maybe because it's a harder transition to the NFL than some other positions?

I'm well aware Deiter played at Bowling Green. It's a lazy assumption to just write off the season he had there in 2015 as just compiling a bunch of stats against MAC competition. I remember watching the game he lit a top 25 ranked Tennessee team up while at Bowling Green running up and down the field to the tune of 7 catches, 133 yards and a TD. He only got to play against three Power 5 teams that year and compiled 18 catches, for 243 yards, and 2 TD's in those 3 games. And that was with MAC talent around him. Just like it's a lazy assumption to just assume the best college talent in the country would get steamrolled by putrid NFL talent. It requires no thought.


It's pretty clear to me not many people are watching much NFL football with any sort of critical eye. There's not 53 or 48 or 37 guys on every single NFL team in the league that are NFL caliber players. Half of them are just hanging on to a job by the skin of their teeth.

I've always kinda liked the Dolphins and I'm here to tell you that team ain't 2 deep at every position with NFL players. I dare any of you to actually go watch what Dallas Thomas and Billy Turner looked like on Miami's offensive line before they finally cut their sorry butts, and tell me or yourself that those were NFL caliber players. It was a complete joke. And they kept starting them. For years. Tell me Marc Colombo, or Cleo Lemon, or Cameron Worrell or Legedu Naanee, or a host of others were NFL caliber players when Miami was starting them a few years ago. Not even close.

All I know is that you boys could give me Alabama and 3 or 4 touchdowns against the Cleveland Browns and take my money hand over fist until I learned my lesson.
 

81usaf92

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I'm well aware Deiter played at Bowling Green. It's a lazy assumption to just write off the season he had there in 2015 as just compiling a bunch of stats against MAC competition. I remember watching the game he lit a top 25 ranked Tennessee team up while at Bowling Green running up and down the field to the tune of 7 catches, 133 yards and a TD. He only got to play against three Power 5 teams that year and compiled 18 catches, for 243 yards, and 2 TD's in those 3 games. And that was with MAC talent around him. Just like it's a lazy assumption to just assume the best college talent in the country would get steamrolled by putrid NFL talent. It requires no thought.


It's pretty clear to me not many people are watching much NFL football with any sort of critical eye. There's not 53 or 48 or 37 guys on every single NFL team in the league that are NFL caliber players. Half of them are just hanging on to a job by the skin of their teeth.

I've always kinda liked the Dolphins and I'm here to tell you that team ain't 2 deep at every position with NFL players. I dare any of you to actually go watch what Dallas Thomas and Billy Turner looked like on Miami's offensive line before they finally cut their sorry butts, and tell me or yourself that those were NFL caliber players. It was a complete joke. And they kept starting them. For years. Tell me Marc Colombo, or Cleo Lemon, or Cameron Worrell or Legedu Naanee, or a host of others were NFL caliber players when Miami was starting them a few years ago. Not even close.

All I know is that you boys could give me Alabama and 3 or 4 touchdowns against the Cleveland Browns and take my money hand over fist until I learned my lesson.
i don't think you understand the NFL. Most guys have played 12-14 years of true competition football. Most college players have played 8 if they started every year, and didn't forgo their senior year. Experience kills inexperience. The Browns may suck by NFL standards, but they would win the national championship every year if you placed them in college, and make Bama look like LSU.

Btw the dolphins were a playoff team.
 

B1GTide

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Was he a bust? Yes. They signed him as a cover corner and he played behind a very good defensive front 7, so his failures were his own. But, as others have said, corner is a tough position to get right out of college - lots of "busts". His size and propensity for injury precluded him from being considered for safety, where he might have been very successful.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I'm well aware Deiter played at Bowling Green. It's a lazy assumption to just write off the season he had there in 2015 as just compiling a bunch of stats against MAC competition. I remember watching the game he lit a top 25 ranked Tennessee team up while at Bowling Green running up and down the field to the tune of 7 catches, 133 yards and a TD. He only got to play against three Power 5 teams that year and compiled 18 catches, for 243 yards, and 2 TD's in those 3 games. And that was with MAC talent around him. Just like it's a lazy assumption to just assume the best college talent in the country would get steamrolled by putrid NFL talent. It requires no thought.


It's pretty clear to me not many people are watching much NFL football with any sort of critical eye. There's not 53 or 48 or 37 guys on every single NFL team in the league that are NFL caliber players. Half of them are just hanging on to a job by the skin of their teeth.

I've always kinda liked the Dolphins and I'm here to tell you that team ain't 2 deep at every position with NFL players. I dare any of you to actually go watch what Dallas Thomas and Billy Turner looked like on Miami's offensive line before they finally cut their sorry butts, and tell me or yourself that those were NFL caliber players. It was a complete joke. And they kept starting them. For years. Tell me Marc Colombo, or Cleo Lemon, or Cameron Worrell or Legedu Naanee, or a host of others were NFL caliber players when Miami was starting them a few years ago. Not even close.

All I know is that you boys could give me Alabama and 3 or 4 touchdowns against the Cleveland Browns and take my money hand over fist until I learned my lesson.
The problem with your argument is immediately obvious: not every Alabama player even on national title teams makes it to the NFL. Every single NFL player has already made it there. (The 2011 defense is a rare exception that still proves the rule).

Alabama cannot go undefeated nowadays against a COLLEGE schedule.

Consider our losses in recent years:
Clemson - there's some NFL talent there, but they lost to Pitt themselves - anyone think either Clemson or Pitt would beat the Browns?
Ole Miss - their QB who torched us was the last pick in the draft. Their whole team didn't get drafted and didn't win the SEC, either.
Ohio State - lotta talent, but they weren't unbeaten that year, either
Texas A/M - their QB flopped with.....the Browns....most of their team was NOT drafted, either


Just not realistic.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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It's pretty clear to me not many people are watching much NFL football with any sort of critical eye. There's not 53 or 48 or 37 guys on every single NFL team in the league that are NFL caliber players. Half of them are just hanging on to a job by the skin of their teeth.

I've always kinda liked the Dolphins and I'm here to tell you that team ain't 2 deep at every position with NFL players. I dare any of you to actually go watch what Dallas Thomas and Billy Turner looked like on Miami's offensive line before they finally cut their sorry butts, and tell me or yourself that those were NFL caliber players. It was a complete joke. And they kept starting them. For years. Tell me Marc Colombo, or Cleo Lemon, or Cameron Worrell or Legedu Naanee, or a host of others were NFL caliber players when Miami was starting them a few years ago. Not even close.

All I know is that you boys could give me Alabama and 3 or 4 touchdowns against the Cleveland Browns and take my money hand over fist until I learned my lesson.
"There's not 53 or 48 or 37 guys on every single NFL team in the league that are NFL caliber players." That is a mostly fair statement. The NFL is a rough business and I'm sure the average career is incredibly short. However, that is not the same thing as being bad enough that a college team could keep it close. How many NFL ready players does Alabama have that could start for one of the 32 teams? We could probably project 6 or so but out of those 6 only a 1 or 2 would be impact players in the NFL immediately. If you want to compare CFB to the NFL you have to stop saying that not all NFL players are "NFL caliber players." Because it's irrelevant if they are NFL caliber or not. Just look at Bama players in the NFL. For every Julio Jones there are guys like Fluker, Warmack, Trent Richardson, etc. Those 3 guys were some of the best players we have had under Saban and look at their careers now. So, it doesn't matter if a player is NFL caliber when comparing college vs NFL because elite level college players are often not NFL caliber players.


Was he a bust? Yes. They signed him as a cover corner and he played behind a very good defensive front 7, so his failures were his own. But, as others have said, corner is a tough position to get right out of college - lots of "busts". His size and propensity for injury precluded him from being considered for safety, where he might have been very successful.
CBs often need a few years to catch on to the NFL. He never really got that chance because of injury. He's still a bust but I don't think it's his own fault.

CB and QB seem to have the most busts. I think both suffer from the same fatal flaw; teams draft these positions higher than they should have.
Yup. QBs and CBs also seem to be the 2 positions where attitude and football IQ matter the most. So, maybe because intangibles matter more for those positions they are harder to figure out?
 

bamamc1

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I'll say this much for Dee: In 2014 he was at the beach at a resort that my daughter and I always stay the week of the 4th and I've never seen a person that treated kids as well as he did. He signed autographs, took photos, and tossed the ball around with them for a couple of hours. He is a class act that's for sure.
 

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