Big 12 perception continues to sink

GP for Bama

All-American
Feb 3, 2011
4,326
1,086
187
I think Oklahoma would be fun to have in the SEC some day. I like the idea of 4 super conferences in general so maybe a declining Big 12 will be a good thing for that idea. Or not.
It seems to me that the SEC is tough enough now. They should try to get into the Big Ten ... at least they could renew their rivalry with Nebraska and also have an easier schedule.
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,716
6,419
187
We just had the toughest schedule in the nation. What more do you want?
Ideally? If I could have it my way? I would need a lot of research and information that I don't have but I would find a way to make a super conference system. There could be some form of preseason games against FCS and group of 5 schools too in order to keep those programs alive. It honestly would be hardest to do with a playoff system because of the number of games. I haven't come up with some master plan or anything so I really don't know exactly what I would want but I do think we could come up with a better system that benefits mostly everyone in some way. I don't honestly believe that any kind of system like what I would want will ever come to fruition though. But, getting to play FSU this year is great and I hope at the very least all power 5 teams schedule at least one big game against a different conference like we do. It's one of my favorite things about Bama.
 

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
63,382
67,082
462
crimsonaudio.net
This is Alabama's strength of schedule for the last three years, along with records:
2014: #2 SOS; 12-2, SEC Champions, CFP semifinalist
2015: #1 SOS; 14-1, SEC Champions, CFP winner (National Champions)
2016: #1 SOS; 14-1, SEC Champions, CFP finalist

I mean, I just don't understand why you want to make this harder on the team. They are playing a brutal schedule week in and out and some want it harder?

Goodness.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
Ideally? If I could have it my way? I would need a lot of research and information that I don't have but I would find a way to make a super conference system. There could be some form of preseason games against FCS and group of 5 schools too in order to keep those programs alive. It honestly would be hardest to do with a playoff system because of the number of games. I haven't come up with some master plan or anything so I really don't know exactly what I would want but I do think we could come up with a better system that benefits mostly everyone in some way. I don't honestly believe that any kind of system like what I would want will ever come to fruition though. But, getting to play FSU this year is great and I hope at the very least all power 5 teams schedule at least one big game against a different conference like we do. It's one of my favorite things about Bama.
You completely avoided my question. You said "I love it more when we played harder schedules." How harder do you what Alabama's schedule to be when it just played the toughest in the nation?
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,716
6,419
187
This is Alabama's strength of schedule for the last three years, along with records:
2014: #2 SOS; 12-2, SEC Champions, CFP semifinalist
2015: #1 SOS; 14-1, SEC Champions, CFP winner (National Champions)
2016: #1 SOS; 14-1, SEC Champions, CFP finalist

I mean, I just don't understand why you want to make this harder on the team. They are playing a brutal schedule week in and out and some want it harder?

Goodness.
I think you need to read what I said if you are talking about me. I think I said a couple times that you would need to look into player safety. In fact I put it as my #1 idea I care about.

You completely avoided my question. You said "I love it more when we played harder schedules." How harder do you what Alabama's schedule to be when it just played the toughest in the nation?
I mean. I said that in the context of wanting OU to join the SEC. I don't know what kind of answer you are looking for here. Do you want me to quantify harder? You actually asked "We just had the toughest schedule in the nation. What more do you want?" and I think I basically answered that. But I apologize if you were looking for something else.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
I mean. I said that in the context of wanting OU to join the SEC. I don't know what kind of answer you are looking for here. Do you want me to quantify harder? You actually asked "We just had the toughest schedule in the nation. What more do you want?" and I think I basically answered that. But I apologize if you were looking for something else.
You want to be entertained because you enjoy winning against harder schedules. That's what you said. How much harder do you want the schedule when Alabama consistently plays one of the toughest in the nation? That's my question.
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,716
6,419
187
You want to be entertained because you enjoy winning against harder schedules. That's what you said. How much harder do you want the schedule when Alabama consistently plays one of the toughest in the nation? That's my question.
I want all schedules to be harder overall. Alabama has the toughest in the nation but I don't find the average schedule difficult. Just look at teams like Washington. I don't know if I can answer exactly how much harder I want our schedule to be specifically. But, replacing Mercer with a team like Syracuse would be more in the direction I want.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
I want all schedules to be harder overall. Alabama has the toughest in the nation but I don't find the average schedule difficult. Just look at teams like Washington. I don't know if I can answer exactly how much harder I want our schedule to be specifically. But, replacing Mercer with a team like Syracuse would be more in the direction I want.
That's not possible, though. There are only so many quality teams right now. You can't have the parity in college football you mentioned earlier without completely rewriting the rules.
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,716
6,419
187
That's not possible, though. There are only so many quality teams right now. You can't have the parity in college football you mentioned earlier without completely rewriting the rules.
Right. I don't think what I want will ever happen but I still wish it would. People don't work together to come up with effective solutions very often and even less so when money and power are involved.
 

deliveryman35

Hall of Fame
Jul 26, 2003
12,997
1,194
287
55
Gadsden, AL
OU will never join the SEC as long as David Boren is their president. That being said, I think the Sooners would do well in our league. They are a legitimate, big-time program that has historically played very well against sec competition. As others have said, I think it would hurt us the most in the long term.
 
Last edited:

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
43
kraizy.art
I only disagree with you slightly and that's in this - Oklahoma's perception as a long-time national power is quite similar to Nebraska. They're not great per se, they're great because they have a truckload of mediocrity all around them.
You make a valid point and that's a big reason I became hung up on adding a big football brand to the SEC. I was ok with adding Texas A&M, because I saw them as having room to grow (and they have), but adding a Oklahoma or a Virginia Tech for example? Let's imagine either program doesn't struggle at all right? They hit the ground running in the SEC, well who gets the short end of the deal? Which SEC teams get knocked down a peg? On the flip side, what if they arrive and struggle? Then their brands are damaged and the reasons for adding them in the first place become rather dubious. If the SEC were to expand again, my hope would be that they would be mainly looking at factors other than just the success of the football program.

Beyond that though, I truly do believe there's a threshold that's dangerous to cross. I remember in 2014, the SEC West was historically brutal. A lot of people kind of forget how good the SEC West was because so many teams ended up limping to the finish line. Well, they got beat up, and that certainly lead to that. As it was though, the SEC West had 5 of the top 11 teams according to Sagarin! The problem was those 5 teams lost 20 games combined! At the end of the day, all the SEC West having 5 of the best teams in college football really did was insure they beat the crap out of each other, and I still contend it's one of the reasons Alabama lost to Ohio State (they were mentally and physically exhausted).

Ideally? If I could have it my way? I would need a lot of research and information that I don't have but I would find a way to make a super conference system.
This subject has been a favored topic of mine for years. I have spent more than my fair share of time going over data, including total revenue, attendance, TV deals, endowments, academics, historical performance, etc... so I do feel like I have a solid grasp on that subject. To give an example, and for a fair form of disclosure here's something I wrote 7 years ago: http://asylum.rydas.com/conference-expansion-impact-on-college-football/

The interesting thing is that if the Pac-12 deal ever comes back into play, some things I was talking about could occur, while some other things I mentioned did end up happening.
The key thing to keep in mind though is that the SEC already has its share of football powers, even for a super conference. It doesn't need to add any more.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
Right. I don't think what I want will ever happen but I still wish it would. People don't work together to come up with effective solutions very often and even less so when money and power are involved.
How do you expect them to work together on this, though? There's no solution. There are only so many extremely talented recruits in the country. Plus, there's clearly a limited number of great coaches.
 

JDCrimson

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2006
5,312
4,358
187
51
I get all the discussion about conference strength and all. But I think the dynamics of conference realignment has changed from a few years ago given all the cord cutting going on.

I can see a scenario where ESPN needs a contract workout and goes to the ACC, SEC, PAC 12, and Big 10 to agree to take on certain teams from Big 12 mainly to cut losses on the LHN and other media rights with that conference. The conferences also need to look at creating their own version of Hulu and Sling. If the conferences can be assured of receiving same or enhanced revenue while also allowing ESPN to cut overhead in broadcasting then I think it makes it easier to consider teams like Kansas, KSU, Baylor, TCU, ISU, etc.

If a workout is needed and proposed by ESPN who do we take with the emphasis on just 2 teams? Assuming the media sharing is revenue neutral by ESPN reallocating revenue to its current contract with the SEC.

ACC picks up West Virginia to be at 16.
Baylor, TTU, and Texas, along with BYU go to PAC 12 to get to 16.

Taking demographics out of the equation, who does the SEC and Big 10 take from the leftovers capping at 16 teams?



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
43
kraizy.art
I get all the discussion about conference strength and all. But I think the dynamics of conference realignment has changed from a few years ago given all the cord cutting going on.

I can see a scenario where ESPN needs a contract workout and goes to the ACC, SEC, PAC 12, and Big 10 to agree to take on certain teams from Big 12 mainly to cut losses on the LHN and other media rights with that conference. The conferences also need to look at creating their own version of Hulu and Sling. If the conferences can be assured of receiving same or enhanced revenue while also allowing ESPN to cut overhead in broadcasting then I think it makes it easier to consider teams like Kansas, KSU, Baylor, TCU, ISU, etc.

If a workout is needed and proposed by ESPN who do we take with the emphasis on just 2 teams? Assuming the media sharing is revenue neutral by ESPN reallocating revenue to its current contract with the SEC.

ACC picks up West Virginia to be at 16.
Baylor, TTU, and Texas, along with BYU go to PAC 12 to get to 16.

Taking demographics out of the equation, who does the SEC and Big 10 take from the leftovers capping at 16 teams?
Well, for starters remember that even with cord cutting, one of two factors will still be driving revenue. It will either be ratings, or the subscriber base. The subscriber base is what made Rutgers an attractive addition for example, while Nebraska mainly offered ratings (New Jersey is roughly 4 times the population with around 7 million more people). That sort of moving target that the Big 10 had is as good an example as any of the shifts we can see, but keep in mind it's still going to be one or the other. I don't think it would be particularly bad if ESPN got forced out of milking the subscriber model, and let more things go back to broadcast for example.

Anyway, the entities you are mentioning are tied up not just with ESPN deals, but with Fox deals as well. On top of that the Pac-12 Network is independently owned. ESPN can't just cut any deal they want, they'll have competitors to deal with, but they could hypothetically let some rights go. Anyway, you mentioned one thing which could actually give impetus for a Pac-12 expansion. ESPN owns the tier 3 rights for Texas, as such they basically have not just Texas' cable channel rights, but other key players in the Big 12 as well. There can be no Big 12 network without ESPN. But, that might not be the big prize. As I mentioned before, the Pac-12 owns their network, and to be honest it's not well monetized. The solution is really simple there, the Pac-12 makes a deal with ESPN. ESPN gets a piece of the pie, and in return they increase the revenue for the Pac-12 and insure Texas is made whole without it messing with everyone else getting their appropriate revenue. ESPN's deal for the LNH actually looks pretty smart if you consider the control they have over the situation.

Anyway, this is all about Texas. The truth is just about every program you mentioned means very little in the long run. Oklahoma's brand is too powerful to fall outside of a power conference, but the rest? They're just not that important. The Big 10 could have easily added Kansas if they wanted to, they didn't. Baylor only got into the Big 12 because of who the governor was at the time. BYU is on the outside and unless they gain admittance to the Big 12 they'll stay that way. The key part though is the last bit. The SEC and the Big 10 just won't be taking leftovers. That won't happen. They'll get who they want or they'll leave things be. There's nothing to force their hand. They are the richest and most powerful conferences.
 
Last edited:

JaxTider

Suspended
Jan 10, 2017
194
0
0
You want to be entertained because you enjoy winning against harder schedules. That's what you said. How much harder do you want the schedule when Alabama consistently plays one of the toughest in the nation? That's my question.
Count me among those who think Chattanooga is a wasted Saturday.

And let's be real about the schedule. While it was tough, and probably the most physically grueling schedule, it was ideal for us in that most of the teams we faced could not pass. And I mean teams that made our sos #1 like LSU and Auburn.

So there were probably schedules out there considerably more risky for us to have played.
You can't out muscle Bama and you can't run on us. But a gunslinger can take us out. And several have in recent years.

So in that sense the SEC west schedule is a good fit for us.

I guess I agree with you that our schedule is too grueling physically to add another monster game.

But Chatanooga? To me that's like the heavyweight champion beating down some smuck from pallokaville. There is just no honor in it.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,295
31,347
187
South Alabama
Count me among those who think Chattanooga is a wasted Saturday.

And let's be real about the schedule. While it was tough, and probably the most physically grueling schedule, it was ideal for us in that most of the teams we faced could not pass. And I mean teams that made our sos #1 like LSU and Auburn.

So there were probably schedules out there considerably more risky for us to have played.
You can't out muscle Bama and you can't run on us. But a gunslinger can take us out. And several have in recent years.

So in that sense the SEC west schedule is a good fit for us.

I guess I agree with you that our schedule is too grueling physically to add another monster game.

But Chatanooga? To me that's like the heavyweight champion beating down some smuck from pallokaville. There is just no honor in it.
Alabama would hardly ever win another championship if we got a harder schedule. Look at how much the added game has hurt us. We would've had 2 titles in 3 years had we been in the BCS system, but an added game against tosu costs us.
 

Redwood Forrest

Hall of Fame
Sep 19, 2003
11,040
905
237
76
Boaz, AL USA
Realignment is coming in a couple of years, or so, whenever the contracts get to the 'breaking' point. One thing to keep in mind is this: Not one word of past excuses matter. For example, Texas A&M nixed joining the SEC because it would put to much of a strain on the student-athlete with the travel and different time zones. Well, two years later guess who joined the SEC? If you look back at all the reasons schools don't do something and look at the excuses they use ..... you find it was just that, an excuse. FSU used the SEC is a "knucklehead" conference as an excuse to join the ACC where they reigned supreme for years. It was better than saying we want a conference where we can win them all every year. Excuses.

Now, all this talk about AAU, academics and such are just excuses. The PAC 12 does not want a religious based school. No BYU, TCU, Baylor or SMU for them. But that is an EXCUSE. They will take BYU and the rest if it benefits them. What I am saying is ALL BETS ARE OFF when the next round starts.

Whatever the excuses were for not taking UCF and USF into the Big 12 last time will not apply this time. UConn was to far away? It won't be the next time ..... if it benefits them. So nothing is off the table.

As KrAzY3 pointed out, the networks will have a lot of pull too, so it won't just be travel and who is the best fit.
 

4Q Basket Case

FB|BB Moderator
Staff member
Nov 8, 2004
9,554
12,823
237
Tuscaloosa
OU had their chance several years ago, and just couldn't bring themselves to cut the cord from UTw.

For some reason -- and I'll never understand why -- their school administration and fanbase felt they couldn't thrive without Texas. While they need the state of Texas for recruiting (the state of Oklahoma not producing enough quality HS talent of sustain a college team at the national level), they felt they needed the University of Texas to accomplish that.

And I've never been able to find a credible judtification why a program with the tradition and stature of OU needs anybody to help them out.

Several years ago, OU would have been a great addition. But lots of things have happened:

1. There was a lot of talk that the Oklahoma state legislature would never allow OU to leave without forcing Okie Lite (Oklahoma State) as a package deal.

2. That was a really dumb move, because they needed the SEC a lot more than the SEC neeed them. Now they have two schools in the Big 12 wilderness, not just one.

3. Since then, the imbalance of power between the Oklahoma schools and the SEC has only gotten more pronounced.

4. The last ship sailed when Mizzou joined.

5. With Mizzou's lack of real contribution in any sport fresh in mind, I doubt Sankey or the presidents would be terribly enthused about OSU's sports programs.

5A. If you take OSU, you also get one of two college programs that have a de facto owner in Boone Pickens (the other being Oregon and Phil Knight). The SEC won't kowtow to anybody, and Pickens won't have it any other way. I don't see that gulf being bridged.

6. Taking OU alone would require a total re-alignment of the conference divisions. No way they have Alabama, LSU, OU, and the barn in the same division. This one actually might not be such a bad thing, but it could disrupt a lot of traditional rivalries.

6A. Compounding the re-alignment issue, you'd have an odd number of teams. You either take a 16th team (if so, who?), or you live with the logistical nightmare of 15.

As I said, this is an idea that might have worked a while back. But its time has passed.
 
Last edited:

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
63,382
67,082
462
crimsonaudio.net
5A. If you take OSU, you also get one of two college programs that have a de facto owner in Boone Pickens (the other being Oregon and Phil Knight). The SEC won't kowtow to anybody, and Pickens won't have it any other way. I don't see that gulf being bridged.
Excellent and oft-overlooked point.

As I said, this is an idea that might have worked a while back. But its time has passed.
Agreed.
 

deliveryman35

Hall of Fame
Jul 26, 2003
12,997
1,194
287
55
Gadsden, AL
I agree there was a window of opportunity for OU to join the SEC back in 2010-2011. I think that window closed with the admission of Missouri to the league.

Any future expansion, I think, will branch out eastward into schools either in the state of North Carolina or Virginia. Geographically and economically, that would make the most sense at this time.
 

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.