North Carolina disputes NCAA findings in response to Notice of Allegations

4Q Basket Case · May 28, 2017

B1GTide said:
I get that, but if the classes are a fraud, then the grades are a fraud. It is connected. We cannot pretend otherwise. This is tantamount to discovering that the players never attended classes at all - that the school falsified records indicating that they were attending and passing classes. If the classes are a fraud, they never met NCAA requirements.

You're assuming linear and internally consistent logic where neither exists.

Highly selective prosecution rules with those guys. Sometimes that works in your favor, sometimes it doesn't. But if you try to apply critical thinking, you'll just end up pulling your hair out.

rgw · May 28, 2017

Redwood Forrest said:
SACS is a joke. Their main interest is in making $$$ and not rocking their boat. I base this on past SACS actions which amounted to wrist slapping. Until I retired I worked at a plant making parts for automobile, both original equipment and aftermarket. We had our "quality" inspection ISO9001 every six months. Yes, it was a joke. When we got caught we were given three days to fix them all. A simple phone call saying "we fixed it" was all it took and then we sent a follow up form confirming it. We paid $50,000 each for those two yearly inspections. Yes, I can see why SACS does not want to actually pull accreditations. $$$$$$$$$$$$

I do not know if that is a discount rate or extravagant. All I know is no one at our plant followed the rules or even worried about getting busted. Personally, I think someone was getting the bribe. But then I see SACS doing the same thing and I wonder if any accreditation group actually does their job.

PCI compliance for credit card processing is much the same to that ISO-9001 process. You pay 50k for someone to come in and assess your compliance. They offer consultants that will get you in compliance by their deadline...for a nominal fee. I have a low degree of respect for corporate or individual certification systems...CompTIA, don't even get me started!

B1GTide · May 29, 2017

230kv_barehand said:
But it's still an extra benefit for ALL students, not just athletes. Would be unfair to nail the athletic programs and call those that graduated that their degree is worthless now as they might have taken it for help in another class, etc. I seriously doubt anything comes of this honestly.

There are some benefits which are not permitted by the NCAA under any conditions. For instance, Alabama cannot choose to allow non-qualifying students to play football. The players have to get past the clearing house. This no matter how low Alabama might choose to lower their general admittance standards for everyone else.

This is not a question of "additional benefits". It is a question of meeting the minimum standards required to participate in NCAA athletics.

LA4Bama · May 29, 2017

B1GTide said:
There are some benefits which are not permitted by the NCAA under any conditions. For instance, Alabama cannot choose to allow non-qualifying students to play football. The players have to get past the clearing house. This no matter how low Alabama might choose to lower their general admittance standards for everyone else.

This is not a question of "additional benefits". It is a question of meeting the minimum standards required to participate in NCAA athletics.

I agree with you in principle, but if the NCAA can't connect to dots to show the athletic department knew the classes were weak, they might skate with a significantly lesser penalty. Justice is not easy to get.

PitMaster · May 29, 2017

Laughing at the notion that because unc and au devised a way to keep players eligible and the fact they tossed in some regular kids should keep them from punishment.

This is orchestrated and systemic cheating and academic fraud of the highest magnitudes. unc created a whole program, A-A studies, which was a sham.

cuda.1973 · May 29, 2017

Redwood Forrest said:
SACS is a joke. Their main interest is in making $$$ and not rocking their boat. I base this on past SACS actions which amounted to wrist slapping. Until I retired I worked at a plant making parts for automobile, both original equipment and aftermarket. We had our "quality" inspection ISO9001 every six months. Yes, it was a joke.

Never thought about that before: SACS is just as pointless, and money grubbing, as all the stupid ISO9000 nonsense.

(Don't forget to add in the similar nonsense, like 6-sigma and "quality circles". Same crap, warmed over, and passed off as the latest thinking in quality-conscious think-speak.)

OBMS · May 29, 2017

cuda.1973 said:
Never thought about that before: SACS is just as pointless, and money grubbing, as all the stupid ISO9000 nonsense.

Does this mean Auburn and North Carolina belong in the same conversation with Takeda?

CrimsonEyeshade · May 29, 2017

TideMan, it's the other way around. This thing has been hanging over Carolina for a decade, and both the basketball and football programs say they have been bled dry by the threat of the NCAA hammer. The arrogance of UNC administrators and lawyers contributed to the trench warfare because UNC did perfunctory investigations into the AA curriculum and found very little amiss. Carolina wants this to go away. The NCAA keeps calling. We'll see how the Auburn defense works with a 10-year-old case where obstruction by the school may be involved.

TideMan09 said:
Gotta give the "Powers That Be" at UNS props for stringing the NCAA along as well as any university can..They's basically giving the rest of the schools a blueprint when it comes to dealing with the NCAA rules violations..

Redwood Forrest · May 29, 2017

rgw said:
PCI compliance for credit card processing is much the same to that ISO-9001 process. You pay 50k for someone to come in and assess your compliance. They offer consultants that will get you in compliance by their deadline...for a nominal fee. I have a low degree of respect for corporate or individual certification systems...CompTIA, don't even get me started!

I am sure the Tier One Companies (Honda, IBM & etc.) do follow the ISO9000's and are serious about it. I worked for a Federal-Mogul plant (Wagner, Moog and dozens of other brands) and we could not afford to be ISO compliant because we were "mom and pop" or Tier two. Our contracts were short and small. Tier One contracts are usually long and large, so they can afford to spend the money implementing and sustaining the ISO program.

Since Auburn and North Carolina are Tier One schools and not North Alabama or W Carolina I would have assumed SACS was serious about it but evidently not.

rgw · May 29, 2017

Most industrial certifications and accreditations seem to be more about creating hard monetary barriers to competition. Personal IT certifications run the gambit in my experience. Most of the CompTIA stuff just seems like they've greased the wheels of government. For example, the DoD requires a subset of what CompTIA offers to get nearly any job related to the IT space through the DoD or DoD contractors. Their certs aren't cheap but they basically scrape 150+ dollars off every IT DoD employee or contractor that enters the system and now have recurring payments for recertification on many of the certs they offer. I've found that the certs offered by Cisco, Microsoft, etc (technology vendors) are actually pretty substantive in terms of learning a technology stack but incredibly expensive and time-consuming.

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