auburn To The East?

Auburn to the east, even at the loss of the Alabama game?


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  • Poll closed .

CullmanTide

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2014 is as good an example as any I suppose, and kind of proves an overall point. Yes, Alabama vs Auburn was the #1 rated (regular season at least) game that year. 13.5 million viewers tuned in.

However, Alabama vs. Missouri was #3 with 12.8 million viewers. Alabama was also in the #4, #6, and #9 rated game! So, was the Auburn game that year a big deal (coming off the atrocity that the media loved to death the previous year, think about what was driving the ratings, the chance of Alabama losing)? Yes, it was a big deal, sure. But, people were tuning in to see Alabama! That's why Alabama had the 1, 3, 4, 6, and 9th highest rated football games that year! This is all about Alabama, that's why the had half of the top rated games that year, this isn't and never was about Auburn, and that is my point. The main interest in the game itself, in Auburn really is just the possibility of Alabama losing. And while yes, some revenue might be lost, it really won't be all that much because guess what? Alabama will still play an SEC game and people will still tune in.

Once again, not saying this will happen. I doubt it does because everyone has to get in line. But it still makes sense.

Edit: I will add that the Kick 6 no doubt revitalized the series. Up until the point interest was waning and to reiterate what drives the interest is the possibility of Alabama losing. Well, that Kick 6 darn sure made it more interesting to those people. That to will wane though. In 2016, for example, Alabama was in 3 of the top ten rated regular season games again. Auburn was in 0.
You are correct, Alabama is the draw. The others need us more than we need them.
 

LA4Bama

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2014 is as good an example as any I suppose, and kind of proves an overall point. Yes, Alabama vs Auburn was the #1 rated (regular season at least) game that year. 13.5 million viewers tuned in.

However, Alabama vs. Missouri was #3 with 12.8 million viewers (that's ironic considering the swap we're debating). Alabama was also in the #4, #6, and #9 rated game! So, was the Auburn game that year a big deal (coming off the atrocity that the media loved to death the previous year, think about what was driving the ratings, the chance of Alabama losing)? Yes, it was a big deal, sure. But, people were tuning in to see Alabama! That's why Alabama had the 1, 3, 4, 6, and 9th highest rated football games that year! This is all about Alabama, that's why the had half of the top rated games that year, this isn't and never was about Auburn, and that is my point. The main interest in the game itself, in Auburn really is just the possibility of Alabama losing. And while yes, some revenue might be lost, it really won't be all that much because guess what? Alabama will still play an SEC game and people will still tune in.

Once again, not saying this will happen. I doubt it does because everyone has to get in line. But it still makes sense.

Edit: I will add that the Kick 6 no doubt revitalized the series. Up until the point interest was waning and to reiterate what drives the interest is the possibility of Alabama losing. Well, that Kick 6 darn sure made it more interesting to those people. That to will wane though. In 2016, for example, Alabama was in 3 of the top ten rated regular season games. Auburn was in 0.
It doesn't prove your point at all. The question was whether the IB is a money maker and whether it gets good ratings. You said it did not. Clearly not accurate. It consistently gets good ratings, but like every game it fluctuates based on the quality of the game itself. That is just as true for every rivalry game, even mich-osu.

The draw is high quality entertaining football. It's not that interest was waning before the kick six. It's just that Auburn got butt whooped in 2012 and nobody but a die-hard Bama fan can watch such an incompetent performance by Auburn. But go back to 2010 and the game is right at the top again. We are a draw because we play very good football. We draw a whole lot more when Auburn is also a decent team and the game is competitive. Nobody would tune in to watch us strip Vanderbilt like cold turkey carcass on the Saturday after Thanksgiving.
 

LA4Bama

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Think there is an imbalance now? Wait till you have Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia and Tennessee in the East and Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Missouri and Texas A&M in the West. Hahahaha. What a joke that would be. Only LSU is a present threat while only Texas A&M has the potential to be a threat. Alabama and Florida are present threats and Auburn, Georgia and Tennessee have potential. This would be very lopsided.
I tend to agree with this, except I'm not sure Tennessee is really a serious threat any more.
 

KrAzY3

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It doesn't prove your point at all. The question was whether the IB is a money maker and whether it gets good ratings. You said it did not. .
I never said that.

"It's not that much money, sure it's a big game because two SEC powers are playing each other, but make no mistake, it's just not Ohio St. and Michigan"
Case in point, the year you brought up only 700,000 less people tuned in to watch Alabama play Missouri that year (which is who would be the replacement on the schedule). It's not that much money! Secondly, the other point I made, over 3 million more tuned in to watch Ohio State play Michigan last year than watched Alabama play Auburn in 2014. I stand by what I said because what I said was factual. I never said it did not get good ratings (the closest I came to saying that was saying it wasn't generally one of the top rated SEC games, and from what I've seen it's not, it's not perennially among the top rated games), I said it was a big game. I know what my point was, you do not seem to understand what my point was.

Now, I also already addressed the issue of ratings and what not a while back by proposing Georgia vs. Texas A&M, which would be a fairly big draw.
 
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LA4Bama

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I never said that.

"It's not that much money, sure it's a big game because two SEC powers are playing each other, but make no mistake, it's just not Ohio St. and Michigan"
Case in point, the year you brought up only 700,000 less people tuned in to watch Alabama play Missouri that year (which is who would be the replacement on the schedule). It's not that much money! Secondly, the other point I made, over 3 million more tuned in to watch Ohio State play Michigan last year than watched Alabama play Auburn in 2014. I stand by what I said because what I said was factual. I never said it did not get good ratings, I said it was a big game. I know what my point was, you do not seem to understand what my point was.

Now, I also already addressed the issue of ratings and what not a while back by proposing Georgia vs. Texas A&M, which would be a fairly big draw.
Lol, alternative facts I guess. You wrote "The Iron Bowl is a lot of money compared to what? I seem to recall it not even being the CBS game multiple times lately. It's generally not one of the top rated SEC games from what I understand. It's not that much money..."

Wasn't the bama-mizzou game the championship game in 2013? Not a great comparison, then.

And what you just wrote proves my point. Last year's osu-um game was highly watched because it was between two decent teams who played a nail-biter and the outcome of which affected many team's chances of making a playoff spot. It was a perfect storm for ratings. So what? All that proves is people want to see a good and meaningful game. The IB gives us that often enough to be a premier rivalry. Alabama-missouri, come on, not a chance that becomes a meaningful series.
 

bama2112

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So lets say Aubarn moves to the East, and we keep them on the schedule. What is going to happen when Bama wins the West and Aubarn wins the East. We will play back to back games vs Aubarn . How will that go over with you precious media, and the winner of the first game would not want a rematch. So me its a big sticking point. Look at all the media backlash when we played LSU twice in one year. My idea is no crazier than Dye's build a new stadium and hold the Iron Bowl where it actually began and spit the tickets 50/50. For those of who have attended the real Iron Bowl its something not to be forgotten.

Send Pat a case of Wild Turkey and let him ride his tractor some more. It makes a much sense and moving Aubarn to the East.
 

KrAzY3

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Lol, alternative facts I guess..
Your alternative facts? Because you assumed, a false assumption, to understand my point. You were wrong, because I know better than you what my point was. Your misunderstanding is not justification for being condescending. I tried not to be, I didn't try to make fun of you, but you simply failed to grasp my point. And you still are failing... I will try to elaborate since you are fixating on one thing and missing my broader point. I don't want to have a needless back and forth, because you get the point or you don't (you used a post kick six game as an example, which was an aberration).

A: Alabama is a big draw. Auburn is not a big draw.
B: People tune in to watch Alabama. As long as Alabama keeps playing SEC games, they'll keep generated revenue for the SEC.
C: The same number of SEC games will be played.

We live in an era in which every single SEC game is on TV! Every single one! I said, quite clearly that Auburn and Alabama was a big game because it was two football powers playing each other. The part that seems to be going over your head, while you fixate on single matchups is that this isn't and can't be about one game, because to reiterate every single game will be on television! As I said before, they're all still playing in the SEC.

You want to talk Vandy, Missouri, and Auburn, but there's 14 teams in the SEC! I already mentioned possible match-ups but I guess I have to really spell it out. It's not just Alabama vs. Missouri, which is capable of being a big draw (heck even Alabama vs. Miss St. is capable of being a big draw). To elaborate further on Alabama vs. Missouri, it's not those ratings vs the Iron Bowl, it's how many more people watch that game than would have watched the SEC West opponent Missouri would have been playing! It's as I said the possibility of new rivals, like Georgia vs. Texas A&M, it's Auburn vs. Florida, it's Auburn vs. Tennessee. It's also increased interest when Alabama and Auburn do meet periodically, for instance in the SECCG. Yes, you are losing one match-up, but I say yet again it's not that much money! That's easy enough to understand because you're gaining all these other match-ups in return, and there will be interest in those and you'd better believe the SEC would look at things like the rivalry games and try to insure they stay interesting. I never disputed the notion that something would be lost, just that it's not that big a deal. You lose that game, you lose the west match-ups, but you make the east more interesting. What's the big deal?

Edit: To try to explain this in terms that might be understandable, let me put it this way. Let's say for the sake of argument that Alabama vs. Auburn gets 10 million views right? And Missouri vs. average SEC West opponent gets 5 million viewers. Now, does Alabama vs Missouri have to get 10 million to break even? No, it just needs to get 7.5 million. That's just one example, but we're talking about giving up some things and gaining others. The Iron Bowl isn't that big, isn't so important, as I asserted, that the revenue can't be made up by other interesting match-ups that will be created.
 
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CaliforniaTide

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I think it would do wonders for the Alabama-Auburn rivalry if a majority of AU's fans don't base their success relative to Alabama's, particularly in football. I have some Auburn friends that, in my opinion, do a relatively great job at just focusing and rooting for Auburn's success, without any reference to Alabama in that same sport. They have really stepped it up in softball, gymnastics, a little bit in baseball and basketball, and there's no reason for them to not feel proud for their successes in football. One of the above-mentioned Auburn fans has always told me that historically, Auburn your traditional 7-5 to 9-3 team, and in his opinion, they've always needed a bit more luck than other teams to get those 9-3 and beyond years. For the most part, he's okay with that, but like any other fan, he wants more consistency towards the 9-3 side of the trend.
 

81usaf92

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The Iron Bowl is a lot of money compared to what? I seem to recall it not even being the CBS game multiple times lately. It's generally not one of the top rated SEC games from what I understand. It's not that much money, sure it's a big game because two SEC powers are playing each other, but make no mistake, it's just not Ohio St. and Michigan. Remember, the state of Alabama just isn't that big. Heck in terms of money it's probably not even FSU vs. Florida. Auburn and Alabama will still be playing just as many SEC games as before...

As to reiterate the notion of adding Alabama and Auburn to the west would improve nothing. Yes of course it's good for LSU and A&M because they'd be the top teams left. It throws things off. You have to balance them, you don't balance scales by taking all the weight on one end and just putting it on the other.

Here's what we have now (historical rankings):
Alabama 1
LSU 9
Auburn 13
Texas A&M 20 (by the way I should add once upon a time some posters here claimed they weren't enough of a football power for the SEC, now you are proposing they be the #2 team in the West)
Arkansas 23
Ole Miss 26
Miss St. 41
Total 133

Tennessee 10
Georgia 11
Florida 12
Missouri 35
Vanderbilt 42
Kentucky 46
South Carolina 61 (pretty lousy historical score but remember they basically only ever did anything under Spurrier)
Total 217

As you can see, that gap is huge. That's evened out some by cross division games, but it's a heck of a gap. The proposal of swapping Auburn and Missouri helps quite a bit though. It goes to 155 and 195. Still a big gap, but more balanced in terms of geography and the quality of the programs. Your proposal though, here's what it does. It goes 196 to 154, you've just flipped the imbalance (and no, the SEC East would not approve of that). Not only that, but you've now accumulated most of the top teams in one division! You now have 5 of the top 6 teams in one division! Why in the heck would anyone want that? The Auburn swap though, is relatively nice and neat because the weaker division has 4 of the top 7 teams so their being top heavy balances out the easier teams at the bottom, while the SEC West would have better parity.

I'm not saying this will happen. I'm saying the swap makes sense.
Since 07, the Iron Bowl has not been on CBS only twice (07 and 14). CBS on the day of the iron bowl also has a contract for the UF-FSU game, but still get the SEC game of the week since that isn't a true SEC game. So they have chose the iron bowl 6 out of 8 times ( 2 were on Friday so I don't count them in this). But there is a little context for 07 and 14.

2007- Alabama vs Auburn wasn't the best matchup that day. Kentucky vs Tennessee was due to it deciding the East. So this is a clear case in which they passed it over for another game. But CBS took a big hit on passing up the iron bowl and has tried hard to not make the same mistake again.

2014- CBS overlooked a contract bullet point that limited the number of games they could show of one team. So ESPN got the 2014 game and doubled down with a simulcast of the Finebaum hour and made a killing. CBS has made the same mistake the past two years by showing Bama 5 times prior to the iron bowl, but has paid a lot of money to secure the Iron Bowl where ESPN doesn't get it.

Also just because Alabama is THE DRAW doesn't change the fact that more people tune in for the Iron Bowl than let's say an Alabama- Mississippi State game. MSU was 9-0 heading into Tuscaloosa in 2014 but doesn't get anywhere near the views the Iron Bowl or SECCG that year. Using that logic is like saying that SB XLIX (Seahawks vs Pats) only had the highest draw in viewership because the Patriots were in it.


Point is for a time slot, the iron bowl makes a killing compared to every game other than FSU-UF that day. So the SEC will more or less force the continuation of that game. Sure Auburn to the east makes since, but I'm telling you it's not going to happen without Alabama.
 
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81usaf92

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So lets say Aubarn moves to the East, and we keep them on the schedule. What is going to happen when Bama wins the West and Aubarn wins the East. We will play back to back games vs Aubarn . How will that go over with you precious media, and the winner of the first game would not want a rematch. So me its a big sticking point. Look at all the media backlash when we played LSU twice in one year. My idea is no crazier than Dye's build a new stadium and hold the Iron Bowl where it actually began and spit the tickets 50/50. For those of who have attended the real Iron Bowl its something not to be forgotten.

Send Pat a case of Wild Turkey and let him ride his tractor some more. It makes a much sense and moving Aubarn to the East.
Tosu and Michigan were on opposite sides of the Big 10 when they first started the conference championship thing, but after thinking about it for a little while they moved them to the same side.
 

BamaJama17

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Sure move AU to the east if the SEC expands to playing 9 conference games a year and Alabama keeps Tennessee. 2nd alternative is Alabama moves to the east with AU, Vandy moves west and Alabama takes LSU as a permanent west opponent. Not sure what most of you people have been smoking but Alabama playing AU and UT is very important to me. The only thing worse than losing to either team is wondering what might have been if they had played that year. I don't recall Dye wanting AU in the east 10-12 years ago. TBH let's just kick out Missouri and add North Carolina or Clemson.
 
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crtide

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Well, I initially voted to move them because I despise them so much. But, as I have read this thread and thought more about this as a potential reality, I think removing the Auburn rivalry would just be weird. I know it's anathema to say so, but I feel nauseated when we play them because of their propensity (every now and then) to ruin our season. But calls to eliminate the game do sniff of some fear of that possibility. After all, until this year, we have not opened up a multiple-game win streak against them since the Bryant years. Looking forward to our own "Fear the Thumb" tees.
 

CrimsonTheory

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I am all for keeping great rivalries but Alabama/Auburn hasn't been anything other than toxic for a long time. The best thing to possible happen to both fan bases is for the Iron Bowl to take a hiatus for a while (say a decade). I look forward to the LSU and Tennessee games every year, but for the Iron Bowl I look forward to simply getting past the game and that is not fun. IMO, IB is too toxic at this point and a break is probably needed. Auburn can refocus their on their rivalries with Florida and GA and Alabama can with LSU and Tennessee.

So, yeah I am in favor of Auburn moving off to the east.
 

KrAzY3

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Point is for a time slot, the iron bowl makes a killing compared to every game other than FSU-UF that day. So the SEC will more or less force the continuation of that game. Sure Auburn to the east makes since, but I'm telling you it's not going to happen without Alabama.
I can readily concede one point. As it stands, CBS would not be unhappy with the loss of the Iron Bowl. It is a good game for them, it does generate revenue. I think ESPN would be indifferent. I wasn't trying to be argumentative or what not though, I just took umbrage to your retort. I also agree that it's not an easy thing to make happen.

However, while unlikely I do think it is plausible. It makes sense, but concessions would have to be made and deals would have to be struck. For instance, to keep CBS happy I could see something like moving the Alabama/LSU game to the Iron Bowl slot, along with creating a Georgia/Texas A&M rivalry game. Those if put in the appropriate slots would make up most, if not all of the gap. There would have to be more deals though, and I imagine part of this is that Auburn might imagine they get to move and keep the Alabama game. I don't see Alabama and Tennessee giving up their game though, so this might just all be a bunch of wishful thinking on Auburn's part anyway.
 

81usaf92

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I can readily concede one point. As it stands, CBS would not be unhappy with the loss of the Iron Bowl. It is a good game for them, it does generate revenue. I think ESPN would be indifferent. I wasn't trying to be argumentative or what not though, I just took umbrage to your retort. I also agree that it's not an easy thing to make happen.

However, while unlikely I do think it is plausible. It makes sense, but concessions would have to be made and deals would have to be struck. For instance, to keep CBS happy I could see something like moving the Alabama/LSU game to the Iron Bowl slot, along with creating a Georgia/Texas A&M rivalry game. Those if put in the appropriate slots would make up most, if not all of the gap. There would have to be more deals though, and I imagine part of this is that Auburn might imagine they get to move and keep the Alabama game. I don't see Alabama and Tennessee giving up their game though, so this might just all be a bunch of wishful thinking on Auburn's part anyway.
The problem is how much longer is Bama vs LSU going to be a big rivalry. Bama and Auburn is way more consistent than Bama-LSU. Just look at the 80's and 90's.
 

rgw

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Yep, yep. Iron Bowl is going nowhere. CBS would probably demand a 9-game schedule or a reduction in payout if the schools want to restructure the divisions in this fashion. CBS wants that Alabama-Tennessee game AND Alabama-Auburn game...it is that simple.
 

TrampLineman

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I'd like for them to go to the East, but it ain't happening unless the Iron Bowl can be played EVERY year. No way CBS, ESPN and the SEC lets that happen.
 

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