Poll: Would Ray Perkins Have Won a National Championship at Bama, Had He Stayed?

If Perkins stayed at UA, would he have won a National Championship?


  • Total voters
    58
  • Poll closed .

PitMaster

Suspended
Aug 24, 2015
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0
Recruiting and the overall state of The Program had begun to erode in the last few years under Coach Bryant. We bottomed out in 84, but rebounded strongly in 85 and 86. Had Perkins stayed, say at least a decade, would UA have notched another Title under his watch?
 

Isaiah 63:1

All-American
Dec 8, 2005
2,517
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Probably at 35k or in an airport somewhere
Looking at who won titles in that 1987 to 1996 span, it's hard to believe he'd have supplanted any of the Miami (1987, 1989, 1991) or Nebraska (1994, 1995) teams who between them accounted for five of the 10. That means you'd have to believe both that (A) a Perkins team would have gone 10-1 or better pre-bowls, and (B) then beaten, or come out ahead of, the following in the post-season: 1988 Notre Dame; 1990 Ga Tech/Washington (without playing either team head-to-head in this pre-Bowl Coalition year); 1992 Miami (who didn't, obviously, win it, but in this JJ Abrams alternate timeline of yours, one can assume they'd still play in it); 1993 FSU; and 1996 Florida State (who lost to Florida, but JJ Abrams strikes again). I find that exacta too much of a longshot to bet on in any year.

Perkins lost me in the 1986 LSU game. We're down by four late, facing fourth and five. The Legion Field announcer lets everyone know that Al Bell is coming into game for Alabama. Not only did LSU know we were going to run the reverse to him, but a certain fan in the stands yelled, pre-snap, at the top of his lungs, "don't run the reverse!" But Perkins did, it failed badly, and we lost without ever regaining possession. It's a bit harsh to judge a coaching career by one play call, but it told me enough that, when he departed for Tampa a few weeks later, I was not disappointed.
 
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Rama Jama

All-American
Jan 4, 2011
3,304
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Tuscaloosa
Perkins did not have the temperament to be a college coach. He PO'd the fans, and he PO'd the media whenever he spoke. At that time, fans were used to the Bryant class and he was an absolute departure from the old days. I don't think he would have been able to put it all together in college as recruiting was changing with scholarship limitations and the players were beginning to be more selfish and less team oriented. Miami was the new paradigm of a successful program during that time, and they were mostly thugs. I think Perkins would not have put up with them.
 
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CullmanTide

Hall of Fame
Jan 7, 2008
6,614
885
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Cullman, Al
Perkins did not have the temperament to be a college coach. He PO'd the fans, and he PO'd the media whenever he spoke. At that time, fans were used to the Bryant class and he was an absolute departure from the old days. I don't think he would have been able to put it all together in college as recruiting was changing with scholarship limitations and the players were beginning to be more selfish and less team oriented. Miami was the new paradigm of a successful program during that time, and they were mostly thugs. I think Perkins would not have put up with them.
If Perkins thought someone liked him he'd go out of his way to change their mind or so it seemed.
 

jabcmb

All-American
Feb 1, 2006
2,795
332
107
Birmingham, AL
No. Coach Perkins came in at a tough time and was pretty good, but I don't think a NC was in the cards.
His call in radio show was our little window into his personality. My favorite--fan calls in and asks a routine question about why Bama didn't run a certain play at a certain time and Perkins responds "Are you a coach?"
 

PitMaster

Suspended
Aug 24, 2015
2,281
1
0
I say Yes

For one thing, he could recruit, and I think he was a pretty good HC. That 86 team, did lose 3 games, but played a ridiculous schedule. Opened with Ohio State, also Notre Dame and Penn State on the non-conference slate. PSU, the eventual National Champ, came in the week after we beat Tennessee in Knoxville 56-28, and I think our guys were maybe drained and just were not ready for that quality of opponent. The LSU game was strange - Bama should have won, but Humphrey fumbled at the 1 going in, and also on the LSU 20. The aubs got some officiating help - I think Bama was the better team as well.

If Stallings was able to get one - I think The Perk would have as well
 

tlockwood

1st Team
Dec 15, 2000
860
291
182
Hephzibah, Ga
No...as stated above, Perkins went out of his way to make people dislike him. This was especially true with the media. With so much hatred for the media, he would had to field a team that was head and shoulders above everyone else. Keep in mind that there was no BCS computers or playoff at the time. The media carried a lot of weight as to who won the national championship during this time.
 

CrimsonProf

Hall of Fame
Dec 30, 2006
5,716
69
67
Birmingham, Alabama
My father is a friend of a former pastor at a prominent church in Tuscaloosa. His friend said in the 80s you never knew what you were getting with Bill Curry - you couldn't fully trust him - but you could always be sure that Perkins was a jerk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

rolltide7854

All-American
Aug 20, 2007
2,041
1,068
187
Birmingham, Ala
Old joke that some may not have heard.

Perkins was rumored to be returning to coach Alabama when Curry left. He had heard there was one person he hadn't PO'ed the first time he was here and he was coming back to finish the job.
 

Tide Rev

All-American
Mar 22, 2000
2,981
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Ocean Springs, MS
I was a HS coach in Alabama during the Perkins years. Took a couple of players there for a recruiting visit one weekend. Everybody was great except for Perkins. When we introduced our 2 prospective recruits to him, he did not even shake their hands or speak to them. He looked at them and walked away. I remember thinking Coach Bryant would have never done that. That told me all I needed to know about him.��
 

cuda.1973

Hall of Fame
Dec 6, 2009
8,506
607
137
Allen, Texas
Perkins lost me in the 1986 LSU game. We're down by four late, facing fourth and five. The Legion Field announcer lets everyone know that Al Bell is coming into game for Alabama. Not only did LSU know we were going to run the reverse to him, but a certain fan in the stands yelled, pre-snap, at the top of his lungs, "don't run the reverse!" But Perkins did, it failed badly, and we lost without ever regaining possession.
I know nada, about football (some will say that extends to more than football, but I digress), and I felt his play calling was predictable.

So, a big fat NO WAY, for me.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,375
31,736
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South Alabama
I would say Curry would have had a better shot of getting lucky because of the crazy amount of talent he acquired. But the real problem for either Perkins and Curry is facing Spurrier in his prime.
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
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Recruiting and the overall state of The Program had begun to erode in the last few years under Coach Bryant. We bottomed out in 84, but rebounded strongly in 85 and 86. Had Perkins stayed, say at least a decade, would UA have notched another Title under his watch?



Ray Perkins could unquestionably recruit. Some of his 1984 woes were the fallout of the final years of Coach Bryant's approach of not generally having guys start until their junior year (and please don't cite me the rare exception - I'm speaking in GENERAL terms). Ken Donahue even admitted this approach helped cost us Bo Jackson.

However.....being a college coach takes more than the ability to RECRUIT, even though you cannot win without those players. And I don't think Perkins was capable of doing the other things necessary to maintain a high enough level to win a national title. Let's spot him 1983, which was Bryant's team, and I'll even be generous and spot him 1984 as a "transition from Bryant's players/wishbone to my players/pro set."


In 1985, he needed a comeback in the final seconds after a lackluster effort from the offense for 59 minutes and a special teams faux pas to beat a Georgia team that tied 3-7-1 Vandy. Despite the old "if we had recovered the onsides kick then Van Tiffin beats Penn State" mantra, the fact is we trailed that game by nine points until the score at the end made it look like a game (not that we played badly). We lost to a Tennessee team that, yes, would win the SEC but was hardly a juggernaut. He then played for a TIE against LSU and damn near lost the game in Baton Rouge when he needed a WIN to even have a shot at taking home the SEC title. He was 5-5-1 in his last two years against ranked teams and at least three of those five wins were against teams ranked higher than their worth - 1985 Auburn might have been ranked #7 but only because they STARTED the year at #1 (they played three ranked foes and went 1-2 and lost to TWO unranked teams at the time of the game); 1986 Miss St played a soft touch schedule and were 6-1 and then ended the year 0-4; and 1986 Florida was ranked highly based on what they did in 1984 and 1985 and went 6-5 in 1986, losing to Alabama AND Miss St.

In short, when Perkins played teams of equal talent in 1985 and 1986, he unfailingly lost every single time.

Perkins's entire 'success' as a head football coach was the 1981 NY Giants team that shockingly made the playoffs. Might want to go look REAL CLOSE at that team before thinking Perk was all that great. In EIGHT seasons as an NFL head coach, he had SEVEN losing seasons.


So let's now look at the sole reason anyone ever thought he was a decent coach. In 1981, the Giants lucked into a guy out of N Carolina named Lawrence Taylor, a guy who would go on to make a case as the greatest linebacker of all-time and a guy who specifically told the
Giants (as the Boz would later to other teams) to NOT draft him.

The Giants went 9-7. I lived through that season as an excited 12-year old. Entering Week 15 - and there were no off weeks back then save for between the title game and Super Bowl - 22 of the 28 NFL teams were still playoff eligible. In other words, there was a ton of mediocrity going on.

The Giants beat:
Redskins (8-8)
Saints (4-12)
Cardinals (7-9)
Seahawks (6-10)

At that point they were 4-3. After losing to the Cowboys in September, they picked up a new running back, Rob Carpenter, from the Oilers.....who then proceeded to have a pretty good year. Playing the Falcons in late October, the Falcons fumbled the ball to the Giants in their own territory and the Giants won on an overtime field goal by Joe Danelo (we were exiting the Exit 62 ramp on I-85 at Opelika when I heard this disaster befall my red and black). Oh, the Falcons ended the year 6-10 after being the Super Bowl favorite.

The Giants were 5-6 when they went into Philly against the rapidly collapsing Eagles (Philly, defending NFC champs, started the year at 6-0 and ended it at 10-6). They won. Then they beat the 6-10 Rams and the Cardinals again.

Entering week 16, the Giants were 8-7 and had beaten ONE team with a winning record, a collapsing Philly team. Every other team they beat wasn't any good anyway. OK, Dallas DID have a little motivation for wanting to win since a win by them and a loss by San Fran would have given them home field. The Giants had to win AND root for the Jets to beat the Packers in order to make the playoffs. Both happened, and the Giants DID outplay Dallas that day.


But the fact is that they only beat TWO teams all year with a winning record and only one on the road (Philly). And so mediocre was their competition that they made the playoffs despite losing Phil Simms for the year in week 11.

Why not just be honest and say even Perk's ONE winning season in the NFL was as much a product of luck (scheduling, falling into LT) as anything else?

OK, I know that's not TOTALLY fair because NFL and NCAA are two different animals. Very few have succeeded at both levels (look at the flops of Spurrier, Erickson, Holtz, and even Saban for reference).


But I'm just saying that analyzing it.........I don't see it happening. In fact, it could be argued that Bill Curry was a better table setter/recruiter than was Perkins. Curry recruited the freshmen that won the 1992 national title as seniors, and he left Tech after building the program through 1986 and they won it all in 1990.

Thus, I must vote no.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,375
31,736
187
South Alabama
Ray Perkins could unquestionably recruit. Some of his 1984 woes were the fallout of the final years of Coach Bryant's approach of not generally having guys start until their junior year (and please don't cite me the rare exception - I'm speaking in GENERAL terms). Ken Donahue even admitted this approach helped cost us Bo Jackson.

However.....being a college coach takes more than the ability to RECRUIT, even though you cannot win without those players. And I don't think Perkins was capable of doing the other things necessary to maintain a high enough level to win a national title. Let's spot him 1983, which was Bryant's team, and I'll even be generous and spot him 1984 as a "transition from Bryant's players/wishbone to my players/pro set."


In 1985, he needed a comeback in the final seconds after a lackluster effort from the offense for 59 minutes and a special teams faux pas to beat a Georgia team that tied 3-7-1 Vandy. Despite the old "if we had recovered the onsides kick then Van Tiffin beats Penn State" mantra, the fact is we trailed that game by nine points until the score at the end made it look like a game (not that we played badly). We lost to a Tennessee team that, yes, would win the SEC but was hardly a juggernaut. He then played for a TIE against LSU and damn near lost the game in Baton Rouge when he needed a WIN to even have a shot at taking home the SEC title. He was 5-5-1 in his last two years against ranked teams and at least three of those five wins were against teams ranked higher than their worth - 1985 Auburn might have been ranked #7 but only because they STARTED the year at #1 (they played three ranked foes and went 1-2 and lost to TWO unranked teams at the time of the game); 1986 Miss St played a soft touch schedule and were 6-1 and then ended the year 0-4; and 1986 Florida was ranked highly based on what they did in 1984 and 1985 and went 6-5 in 1986, losing to Alabama AND Miss St.

In short, when Perkins played teams of equal talent in 1985 and 1986, he unfailingly lost every single time.

Perkins's entire 'success' as a head football coach was the 1981 NY Giants team that shockingly made the playoffs. Might want to go look REAL CLOSE at that team before thinking Perk was all that great. In EIGHT seasons as an NFL head coach, he had SEVEN losing seasons.


So let's now look at the sole reason anyone ever thought he was a decent coach. In 1981, the Giants lucked into a guy out of N Carolina named Lawrence Taylor, a guy who would go on to make a case as the greatest linebacker of all-time and a guy who specifically told the
Giants (as the Boz would later to other teams) to NOT draft him.

The Giants went 9-7. I lived through that season as an excited 12-year old. Entering Week 15 - and there were no off weeks back then save for between the title game and Super Bowl - 22 of the 28 NFL teams were still playoff eligible. In other words, there was a ton of mediocrity going on.

The Giants beat:
Redskins (8-8)
Saints (4-12)
Cardinals (7-9)
Seahawks (6-10)

At that point they were 4-3. After losing to the Cowboys in September, they picked up a new running back, Rob Carpenter, from the Oilers.....who then proceeded to have a pretty good year. Playing the Falcons in late October, the Falcons fumbled the ball to the Giants in their own territory and the Giants won on an overtime field goal by Joe Danelo (we were exiting the Exit 62 ramp on I-85 at Opelika when I heard this disaster befall my red and black). Oh, the Falcons ended the year 6-10 after being the Super Bowl favorite.

The Giants were 5-6 when they went into Philly against the rapidly collapsing Eagles (Philly, defending NFC champs, started the year at 6-0 and ended it at 10-6). They won. Then they beat the 6-10 Rams and the Cardinals again.

Entering week 16, the Giants were 8-7 and had beaten ONE team with a winning record, a collapsing Philly team. Every other team they beat wasn't any good anyway. OK, Dallas DID have a little motivation for wanting to win since a win by them and a loss by San Fran would have given them home field. The Giants had to win AND root for the Jets to beat the Packers in order to make the playoffs. Both happened, and the Giants DID outplay Dallas that day.


But the fact is that they only beat TWO teams all year with a winning record and only one on the road (Philly). And so mediocre was their competition that they made the playoffs despite losing Phil Simms for the year in week 11.

Why not just be honest and say even Perk's ONE winning season in the NFL was as much a product of luck (scheduling, falling into LT) as anything else?

OK, I know that's not TOTALLY fair because NFL and NCAA are two different animals. Very few have succeeded at both levels (look at the flops of Spurrier, Erickson, Holtz, and even Saban for reference).


But I'm just saying that analyzing it.........I don't see it happening. In fact, it could be argued that Bill Curry was a better table setter/recruiter than was Perkins. Curry recruited the freshmen that won the 1992 national title as seniors, and he left Tech after building the program through 1986 and they won it all in 1990.

Thus, I must vote no.
It could be argued that had the iron Bowl been played in Bham in 89 that Curry could have 2 and played in 3. The Sugar Bowl in 89 would've been the de facto national championship.
 

IMALOYAL1

All-American
Oct 28, 2000
3,927
246
187
Birmingham AL
Count me as a fan that thinks Perkins would have played for a championship had he stayed. It took someone with a powerful attitude about himself to fend off plenty of opposition during that time.
Even people that had never coached, but were close to Bryant and Alabama threw their hats in the ring to become coach. Leroy Jordan and players like him. Some thought Howard Schnellenberger should've had a better shot at the job, and maybe so. (drinking?)
I would not discount Alabama under Perkins. Alabama at it's peek always beat Florida. Spurrier was a great coach but he would not push around a quality Alabama team with good coaching.

Despite the old "if we had recovered the onsides kick then Van Tiffin beats Penn State" mantra, the fact is we trailed that game by nine points until the score at the end made it look like a game
That Alabama team was full of very young players. Penn State on the other hand had, IIRC around 20 5th year seniors and won the National Championship. I watched one of their linebackers shove Joe Kings 6'7 309lb head back and dare him to do anything. Joe tucked his tail.
 
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