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  1. #27
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    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    Once again, the bigger issue last year was play calling moreso than execution.


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  3. #28
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    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    I would hope we see a really big jump. Unlike, the QBs before him Jalen will have a new OC. We will see. Jalen didn't have a spring before this season, that's why I think he'll be huge strides now.

  4. #29
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    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonProf View Post
    Once again, the bigger issue last year was play calling moreso than execution.


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    I think the playcalling was partially due to perceptions on limitations in Hurts' game. To be honest, Kiffin's offensive approach worked well with veteran year one starters but I don't think his system is great for a truly young guy. Kiffin is one of the best. He's a true playcaller and less of an offensive strategist in my opinion. He's one of the best at finding touchdowns but it requires a guy at quarterback who knows a lot of plays. Hurts needed a pared down playbook and Kiffin kinda suffered for it against the best defenses.

    Hurts really could have used one of those OCs who has about a 1 page front and back playbook but layers the calls on one another in a way where the defense is rarely right.
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  5. #30
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    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    I have not read the whole thread but my expectation is All-SEC, A-A and top 8 in the Heisman. I think we are really going to see Jalen mature and become a total, all-around QB. Record breaking year is what I am predicting.

  6. #31
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    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    The goal is a championship. He was already good enough to get that done. #17 in 2017?

  7. #32
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    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    For every negative, there's a, "Yeah but...." Likewise for every positive, there's also a, "Yeah but..."

    There's no question in my mind that Tua has a higher ceiling as a passer. I seriously doubt that Tua will ever be the runner Jalen is today.

    Can Tua lead? We don't know. We do know Jalen can.

    Can Jalen close the gap as a passer? We know he has. We're pretty sure that, barring injury, Tua won't overtake him overall, at least in 2017. What we don't know is whether Jalen has closed the passing gap enough to make 2018 a moot point.

    But we're about to find out. Once opposing defenses diagnosed Jalen's weakness between the hashes (about games 7 or 8), the mediocre ones couldn't do anything about it, but the good ones made him look mediocre at best.

    Florida State is reputed to have the best returning secondary around.

    I really think that game comes down to one question: Can Jalen Hurts achieve a 50% completion rate to the TE or RB, crossing between the hashes, 5-10 yards downfield from the LOS?

    If he can, odds are we win comfortably, unless penalties or turnovers get out of hand. If he can't, flip a coin...or maybe 60/40 edge to FSU.

    We absolutely must force FSU to defend the whole field. If we do that, we'll be fine. If we allow them to ignore half of it (as we did against Clemson in the NCG), we'll have dug ourselves a deep, deep hole.
    Last edited by 4Q Basket Case; June 23rd, 2017 at 10:07 PM.
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  8. #33
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    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    I think it's much more likely that he improves rather than regresses in 2017. He has one year of experience under his belt and I'm sure he's worked hard on improving his mechanics and footwork. I've never doubted Jalen's raw ability and athleticism, he just needed experience and further development.
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  9. #34
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    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrollTide View Post
    My biggest concern, which started late last year when it dawned on me, is that a significant portion of the completion percentage and yards were really "1-yard-pass" jet sweeps. They could just as well have been handoffs, like an end-around. The point is, this play was almost completely diagnosed and defeated by the defenses we played against at the end of the season.

    So I think (really, hope) the jet sweep is going away. This starts us at a lower baseline from last year, which means we are hoping for a bigger increment overall, into more of a "standard" passing game, with drop backs, play actions, and QB draws.
    Aren't passing stats kept on factoring out yards after catch?

  10. #35
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    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaro View Post
    Aren't passing stats kept on factoring out yards after catch?
    No. Passing yards include the runs after the catch.

    You might see someone doing what you suggest --it's a good metric for diagnosing what happened in a game -- but it's not an official statistic.
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  11. #36
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    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    Quote Originally Posted by rgw View Post
    Hurts has more arm than any QB we've had other than maybe Coker. Arm strength is always a bit overrated compared to touch and location, but if he can locate those bombs a bit better as he did in the A-Day game then he's gonna be closer to Heisman quality than many people seem willing to admit.
    A lot overrated then, because he also seemed to have more one-hoppers than any of the guys being talked about.

    Anyway, the whole was it the gameplan or Hurt's limitations discussion is a chicken and the egg discussion, so I'm not going to go too far into or take a strong stance either way, but Hurts seems to be getting an outsized portion of benefit of the doubt here. Maybe just because Hurts is still here and is much better liked?

    Hopeful that Hurts will be significantly improved -- I think Lamar Jackson could act as a recent source of hope for us here. He was an absolutely terrible thrower in his first year, and, poof, became an extremely competent one in his second year. Hurts probably doesn't need as much improvement as Jackson needed and we don't need Hurts to do all that Jackson does; but Jackson's a great example of what's possible. Some fraction of the Jackson level of improvement is realistic though, and I'd say that's all we need.
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  12. #37

    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmost View Post
    A lot overrated then, because he also seemed to have more one-hoppers than any of the guys being talked about.

    Anyway, the whole was it the gameplan or Hurt's limitations discussion is a chicken and the egg discussion, so I'm not going to go too far into or take a strong stance either way, but Hurts seems to be getting an outsized portion of benefit of the doubt here. Maybe just because Hurts is still here and is much better liked?

    Hopeful that Hurts will be significantly improved -- I think Lamar Jackson could act as a recent source of hope for us here. He was an absolutely terrible thrower in his first year, and, poof, became an extremely competent one in his second year. Hurts probably doesn't need as much improvement as Jackson needed and we don't need Hurts to do all that Jackson does; but Jackson's a great example of what's possible. Some fraction of the Jackson level of improvement is realistic though, and I'd say that's all we need.
    Or maybe some of us know what happened...


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  13. #38
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    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    For every negative, there's a, "Yeah but...." Likewise for every positive, there's also a, "Yeah but..."

    There's no question in my mind that Tua has a higher ceiling as a passer. I seriously doubt that Tua will ever be the runner Jalen is today.

    Can Tua lead? We don't know. We do know Jalen can.

    Can Jalen close the gap as a passer? We know he has. We're pretty sure that, barring injury, Tua won't overtake him overall, at least in 2017. What we don't know is whether Jalen has closed the passing gap enough to make 2018 a moot point.

    But we're about to find out. Once opposing defenses diagnosed Jalen's weakness between the hashes (about games 7 or 8), the mediocre ones couldn't do anything about it, but the good ones made him look mediocre at best.

    Florida State is reputed to have the best returning secondary around.

    I really think that game comes down to one question: Can Jalen Hurts achieve a 50% completion rate to the TE or RB, crossing between the hashes, 5-10 yards downfield from the LOS?

    If he can, odds are we win comfortably, unless penalties or turnovers get out of hand. If he can't, flip a coin...or maybe 60/40 edge to FSU.

    We absolutely must force FSU to defend the whole field. If we do that, we'll be fine. If we allow them to ignore half of it (as we did against Clemson in the NCG), we'll have dug ourselves a deep, deep hole.
    We don't really know how weak he might have been in the middle. At one point, I got curious and looked back at his UT and USC tenures. He's never been known for either the deep ball or routes across the middle, either one. At one point, at USC, he had the #s 2 and 3 recruiting-ranked pro QBs on his squad and the USC fans were screaming for deep balls, and not getting them. After the exhibition at A-Day, not using the fly pattern seems a travesty. Also, all routes across the middle don't have to be crossing routes. There are curls and hitch and goes, lower risk and lower timing routes. IOW, I think it may have been just in Kiff's DNA not to utilize the middle or deep ball, probably compounded by doubt in his QB...
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  14. #39

    Re: How big of a jump can we realistically expect from Jalen?

    Listen people, take Jalen Hurts from last year and multiply him by 10, maybe even by 15 and that is what you are going to have this year. He is a freak talent both physically and mentally and by the end of the first game all the doubt expressed in the above posts will be gone forever.

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