Democrats Face Identity Crisis

pcfixup

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The Democrats are too tied to social issues. They are doomed as long as white Americans are in the majority. and as long as a majority of americans are against Abortion and gay rights.
 

CharminTide

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The Democrats are too tied to social issues. They are doomed as long as white Americans are in the majority. and as long as a majority of americans are against Abortion and gay rights.
The majority of Americans do support abortion and gay rights.
 

CajunCrimson

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The majority of Americans do support abortion and gay rights.
I agree on gay rights. Not so sure about abortion. I know that is what is believed on the left and right coasts and places like Madison, Austin, and Chicago....but I still think that more people are opposed to it -- than what is advertised
 

jthomas666

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But Americans voted for Trump. I don't believe for one minute that any Trump supporter is not a pro-life or anti-gay marriage. Trump brought over social cons who previously may have voted democrat for pocketbook reasons.
He did lose the popular vote, remember. So even if your baseless assumption is true, it's still possible that most Americans support the right to choice and gay rights.
 

92tide

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from pew research

More than 40 years after the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade decision, 69% of Americans say the historic ruling, which established a woman’s constitutional right to abortion in the first three months of pregnancy, should not be completely overturned. Nearly three-in-ten (28%), by contrast, would like to see it overturned.

Public opinion about the 1973 case has held relatively steady in recent decades, though the share saying the decision should not be overturned is up slightly from four years ago, Pew Research Center’s December survey found. In January 2013, 63% said this, which was similar to views measured in surveys conducted over the prior two decades.
 

CharminTide

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I agree on gay rights. Not so sure about abortion. I know that is what is believed on the left and right coasts and places like Madison, Austin, and Chicago....but I still think that more people are opposed to it -- than what is advertised
 

selmaborntidefan

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The Democrats are too tied to social issues.
This has a certain level of truth.......but they aren't the only ones. In the GOP, it's the pocket of religious right conservatives primarily who are preoccupied with this. The GOP has the problem of "we need their votes and can't win without them, but we're not going to do anything for them." Kinda like the Democrats have become with the black vote.


They are doomed as long as white Americans are in the majority. and as long as a majority of americans are against Abortion and gay rights.
At no time in any polling has the majority of Americans been pro-life. The politics of abortion are far more complicated than the bumper sticker mentality of the parties and press. Since 1973, it's not really changed at all. Around 58% of people want abortion legal while around 53% consider it murder. (yes, there is a small group of people who consider it murder and still want it legal).

As far as gay rights....my own views as an evangelical on this are somewhat nuanced but let's just cut right down to the core: Americans on the whole simply don't want to get down and dirty and involved in that, but I'll guarantee you most folks basically look at it pragmatically: "Well, who exactly is gay marriage hurting?" At least with abortion one can make the argument of harm to a person/potential person (folks, I'm musing and I'm not going to get involved in the nuances of that debate given that in over 30 years I've never once seen an argument on that subject change one single mind).

That simply cannot be done with gay marriage.


National races basically come down to TWO subjects: economics and national security. Even health care is really a (primarily) economic issue.

It is, however, long past time the press quit pretending that gun control, abortion, gay marriage/rights, and the environment rank overly highly in the minds of most Americans. Those are volatile, red button issues, but they are way down the list of "concerns most people want addressed by Washington." School prayer is another one. (Ok, education ranks up there, too, but in large part because it, too, has economics tied to it).

Since 1980, there have been ten Presidential races featuring a professing pro-life candidate (GOP) against a professing pro-choice candidate (Dem). The scorecard reads 6-4 in favor of the GOP, although we could call it 4-6 on the basis of the popular vote. The GOP won three ground-shaking landslides with pro-life candidates (and for the record, Trump's pro-life stance is nothing more than saying what the GOP base wants to hear; I've long said this guy has probably paid for abortions out of his pocket).

If the NATION was as obsessed with this particular issue as the press likes to pretend and everyone voted the abortion issue based on polling, the last GOP President would have been Gerald Ford, who wasn't even elected. The truth is - as Zell Miller said in 1991 - when Mom and Dad (or in this day, dad and dad) sit down at night, they aren't worrying about whether school prayer should be voluntary or whether abortion should be legal at 0, 3, or 6 months or whether gays should be able to marry or serve in the military.......they're worried about where they're going to get money for college, how they're going to pay their bills, whether their kid is going to get drafted (admittedly not a worry at this point), whether they'll actually have a nation.

Those social issues, left or right, are rightly called (Mandy Grunwald used this term) "luxury issues." If your 401K is doing great and you have money in the bank then you have plenty of time to worry about whether or not abortion should be legal.
 

GrayTide

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IMO none of these issues matter when the voter steps into the booth and closes the curtain. It is, and will always be about, voting for the candidate that will make sure my socio-economic status will improve or at least not get worse. After that the only thing that matters to them is the safety and security of the country. The majority of issues brought up during the election process are high minded ideals that mean nothing to most individuals once their financial and personal safety is guaranteed.
 

selmaborntidefan

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IMO none of these issues matter when the voter steps into the booth and closes the curtain. It is, and will always be about, voting for the candidate that will make sure my socio-economic status will improve or at least not get worse. After that the only thing that matters to them is the safety and security of the country. The majority of issues brought up during the election process are high minded ideals that mean nothing to most individuals once their financial and personal safety is guaranteed.
Exactly.
 

pcfixup

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IMO none of these issues matter when the voter steps into the booth and closes the curtain. It is, and will always be about, voting for the candidate that will make sure my socio-economic status will improve or at least not get worse. After that the only thing that matters to them is the safety and security of the country. The majority of issues brought up during the election process are high minded ideals that mean nothing to most individuals once their financial and personal safety is guaranteed.
Once any trust is gone regarding economics and security, people vote with their tribe.
 

81usaf92

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I've never got the stance on abortion, gay rights, and gun control being a key difference on who wins or who doesn't. Ohio is nothing like Alabama or New York but they are more key in elections.
 

CajunCrimson

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Define "certain circumstances" and show me where the polled responses come from, and their ages.....then that poll means something. What I see is 29% for, 19% against and 51% that says "it depends"

People who are driven by circumstances are probably in the "rape", "incest" and "life of mother" crowd. They are not pro choicers.

I know that's where most people I know fall.
 
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