Link: Ranking CNS BAMA teams ...
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You can wear that hat if you want to but it's not the same thing - because coach and player are two different roles.
Yet the other two years we were thinking otherwise.
If there is one thing I think we can directly blame on Kiffin it is the development of Jalen after the LSU game. We really needed a downfield passing game and it was obvious. Aranda exposed our weaknesses and the 3 remaining good defenses followed his game plan (UF, Wash, and Clemson). The only one out of them capable of beating us was Clemson. Had we showed that we could go vertical we would have won, and they wouldn't been crowding the line all night. They tried that against Coker in 2016, but paid for it in the second half. Not saying Jalen is bad (not at all),but one of the biggest differences was the experience level and the ability to throw the deep ball Coker had compared to Jalen. I firmly believe barring an injury Jalen leads us to a championship either this year or next, possibly both.
Yet Kiffin didn't coach that game, Sark did. Again the only thing Kiffin is directly responsible for that game is Jalen's progression over the course of the year.
They have a possible star NFL QB and almost certainly the next Julio Jones at WR. Also, Gallman is a very good college back that wouldn't surprise me to see him have a few 1000-yard seasons in the NFL. That was a great team. Still, the defense had them stone-walled for 3 quarters before the offense's inability to sustain possession became a problem. 2016 defense was the best defensive unit we've had by talent and production but they got submarined out of their championship.
Because when Lane Kiffin isn't getting in his own way, he's one of the best play callers in the nation. Or maybe we just gave him too much credit. Who knows.
I would say there are two things we can directly blame on Lane Kiffin -
Jalen's lack of development.
Sark coaching the Clemson game. When Kiffin is calling plays the team hasn't practiced since August against Washington, what is Saban supposed to do? Trust him to have his crap together in Tampa? He left CNS no other choice, so we ended up with Sark calling plays. We can argue Saban's pick of Sark over a guy like Napier for the one game, but the main issue is Kiffin forcing Saban's hand.
Kiffin cost us a title by mid-season more than anything in my opinion. He didn't really setup the offense in such a way that an inexperienced true freshman could succeed at stretching the field vertically. He basically called a game like someone trying to mask the QB rather than set him up for success.
As if that had nothing to do with the championship game.
And actually, Kiffin is responsible for a lot more - his own personal dysfunction led to dysfunction among the offensive coaching staff and players. He didn't include the other staff in game-planning, for example. I'm not even sure that Napier, Cristobal, Key were even speaking to Kiffin at that point. He was calling the wrong plays during the UF and UW games! He had to go, or else I think we ran the very real risk that Jalen Hurts would be redshirting somewhere else this year. That put the offense in a bad spot, which in turn put the defense in a bad spot.
It's not excuse making - it is explaining a very real situation.
Jalen was out of the redshirt conversation the moment he beat USC. So that's incorrect to say he needed to go because Jalen would redshirt somewhere else
As far as Kiffin's personal crap. If that was such a factor then it would've cost us in 2015 because that's where it by far was at its worst. I can see the argument that he was thinking ahead to a future coaching job, but I have very rarely heard the one about Kirby in 2015. Odd how winning wipes away things.
Kiffin's problem in 2016 was plain and simple that he had an inexperienced qb that he had no intention to starting until he was forced to because the other guys weren't ready. So he had to play a qb with a lot of upside but didn't possess the vertical threat passing. He had it with Blake and Jake, but not Jalen last year. Both of those qbs had years in the system or in Jakes case years with good qb coaches. You could also pass the blame on Nuss and Mac for not recruiting well at the qb position because we haven't had a qb recruit since AJ to start from those two. When aranda exposed our offense it became apparent that we were going to live and die off the running game. Bo gave us a chance but his injury bug came back at the most inoppurtune time.
Yeah Kiffin has some blame for that game, but so does bad injuries to Eddie and Hamilton. Deshaun Watson doesn't get a chance to win that game with either or both on the field.
You keep believing what you want about Kiffin. I'll trust what I was told.
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Because there's an actual comparison between:
a) coach who DID NOT do his job and
b) player who COULD NOT do his job
right?????
I think that it is reasonable to discuss the things that might have led to a loss. Coaches/players certainly do so in an effort to learn from their mistakes. But you have to give the other team credit for taking advantage of those circumstances. I see little evidence of Texas fans doing this while most Alabama fans recognize the greatness of the Clemson team that won that game.
2011,2012, 2015, 2016, 2009, 2013, 2014, 2008, 2010, 2007
I have 11 over 12 because of donta Hightower and upshaw. 12 over 15 because of aj and Cooper and the o line, 15 over 16 only because of the title win. 16 over 09 is almost all about the defensive front 7, 09 over 13 due to the title and the Julio Ingram combo, 13 is all about the qb situation, 13 over 08 due to Blake sims magic and general talent of team, 08 over 10 due to leadership and finishing games (except two I guess) hard to forgive that auburn comeback and lsu loss in 10. Then 07 did more than we expected, less than they were capabale of, and may be higher if textbook bs hadn't derailed the team during the toughest stretch of schedule
16 would be number 1 had they held off Clemson, or made the comeback stick in the end. Otherwise they'd have it:
I have 11 over 12 because of donta Hightower and upshaw. 12 over 15 because of aj and Cooper and the o line, 15 over 16 only because of the title win. 16 over 09 is almost all about the defensive front 7, 09 over 13 due to the title and the Julio Ingram combo, 13 is all about the qb situation, 13 over 08 due to Blake sims magic and general talent of team, 08 over 10 due to leadership and finishing games (except two I guess) hard to forgive that auburn comeback and lsu loss in 10. Then 07 did more than we expected, less than they were capabale of, and may be higher if textbook bs hadn't derailed the team during the toughest stretch of schedule
16 would be number 1 had they held off Clemson, or made the comeback stick in the end. Otherwise they'd have it:
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2010 Is the season that left me perplexed, that was essentially the same team as 2011. SC played a great game, LSU played a dominant game, but we should have never lost to the Barn. My list goes a follows:
1. (tie) 2011 and 2015 – Both had the right focus even though they were built a tad different philosophy-wise. Great player leadership was the key for both teams.
2. 2016 – Would be hands down-number one if they would have won the title. This is a team that overachieved and it wasn't a fluke. This is the team I'm currently the most proud of.
3. 2009 – Solid player leadership helped this team succeed. Even though this team had great talent, this is our team of destiny
4. 2012 – The next 3 teams are sold teams and would be top 3 historically in most college programs.
5. 2013
6. 2014
7. 2008 – One of my favorite teams – the team that made me believe and at the same time caused me the most heartburn.
8. 2010 – Should have been 11-2 and played for a NC just saying
9. 2007
1. (tie) 2011 and 2015 – Both had the right focus even though they were built a tad different philosophy-wise. Great player leadership was the key for both teams.
2. 2016 – Would be hands down-number one if they would have won the title. This is a team that overachieved and it wasn't a fluke. This is the team I'm currently the most proud of.
3. 2009 – Solid player leadership helped this team succeed. Even though this team had great talent, this is our team of destiny
4. 2012 – The next 3 teams are sold teams and would be top 3 historically in most college programs.
5. 2013
6. 2014
7. 2008 – One of my favorite teams – the team that made me believe and at the same time caused me the most heartburn.
8. 2010 – Should have been 11-2 and played for a NC just saying
9. 2007
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So I guess having Coker in the game in Tampa makes no difference in your opinion. And no this is not to say Jalen won't be as good as or better than Coker.
Believing what? That he had many extracurricular activities that drove CNS up the wall? That he didn't properly develop Jalen after the LSU game? That he checked out sometimes last year? I believe all those things, but it doesn't take away what ultimately costed us the game and that was the inability to sustain drives and attack Clemson vertically.
As far as this blame everything on Kiffin angle consider two things. 1) had we lost the Arizona game would we had dumped the blame on Kirby because he was too busy stealing recruits and players on the roster to call a good game and 2) had we won the Tampa game would we even really be talking about Kiffin right now?
I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. Kiffin AND players went 14-0 while he was OC in 2016. I think my point is being missed. Many keep whining about Kiffin and it sounds like Texas fans whining about Colt.
Pretty sure Prof is saying your comment about Kiffin's actions in 2015 were worse than those in 2016.
That's like saying "I believe the driver of the red Mustang didn't properly yield at the stop sign and probably could have slowed down a tad, but I don't believe he's the reason for the wreck."
1) AFAIK, Kirby and Mel Tucker didn't actively recruit players off the roster until after Spring practice.
2) Depends on how the game went. If the final drive ended differently, we all probably would have celebrated the victory and brought up Kiffin when discussing the issues the offense had the last two games of the year.
Again, saying "We would have won if the guy that lead two FGs drives hadn't gotten injured!" isn't the same thing as saying "A grown man didn't do his job in properly preparing player(s) as the season progressed."
Clemson won, we lost in a very hard fought game. The difference was quarterbacks and key injuries on defense. At some point you have to tip your hat to Deshaun Watson, Dabo, and their defense for recruiting and scheming well enough to beat us. If you want to play the pass the blame totally on Kiffin by all means.
I'm done with taking about Kiffin and the game in Tampa. Moving on
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