Is your argument that most people who are poor are incapable of improving their own lot in life?
Income Inequality
- Thread starter CharminTide
- Start date
Of course not. I'm saying its absurd to say that people who are poor are all still poor voluntarily. I'm saying its essentially impossible for some to move up the socioeconomic ladder.
But no one said that. The quote that set some of you off was this (emphasis mine):
"In my, albeit limited, experience the simple truth is that the vast majority of those who remain in poverty do so voluntarily."
And as someone who has lived below the poverty line for years earlier in my adulthood, I'd suggest his quote is far more accurate than you might want to believe.
Many people would say that having good timing is a skill.
All "at the right time", in that context, means is having a feasible idea first.
Now that's absurd. People do it all the time.
Oh, so he said vast majority. What a huge difference?
And I don't buy that even a little.
I mean, I said some not everyone.
Unless we speak in specifics there is no real way to argue this. But there are plenty of stories of people like Bill Gates being born in the right place at the right time to have access to specific services that helps them along. That is the luck I am referring to.
People have far more control over their own lives than you seem to want to believe.
Anyone in poverty in this country who has the drive, determination, work ethic, and self-discipline to work hard, avoid making the poor life-decisions many around them consistently make, and improve their station will improve their station. It really is that simple. It's not easy but it's simple.
Anyone in poverty in this country who remains in poverty most likely does so simply because they choose not to do the above.
Your statement (all) is an absolute. That actually makes a huge difference.
Okay. Buy (or don't buy) whatever you wish.
*shrugs*
Just telling you what I've seen over and over while both living below the poverty level as well as volunteering to help those who are there now. Most people are unwilling to do the hard work necessary to change their economic position. I know very few poor people who are willing to make and live within a tight budget, work multiple jobs (if needed - it generally is for a while), further their training / education instead of spending their time and money on entertainment and comfort, etc. MOST of the poor I work with want to enjoy life but they don't want to invest the considerable time and energy required to get there, so they spend their extra time and money for short term enjoyment rather than investing their time and money for long term gain.
But again, buy (or don't buy) whatever you wish.
One thing I've had to try to do this entire thread is to not argue against an argument that was never made. Anyone else having that problem?
And it's important to note that all of the above doesn't make them bad people.
Nor does the opposite make those people good people.
We are talking about observations of how people make decisions regarding lifestyle, finance, employment, and education.
That's all.
Very true but the crux of the issue is that they are, indeed, choices.
People make their own choices voluntarily.
From my experience, I think a lot of people who are born into poverty and who essentially live off the government almost get accustomed to it. If a person can make minimum wage and get their housing, food, and other expenses subsidized then why would they want to try and better themselves? Creating more income would just remove those benefits and in their mind they wouldn't be any better off because they would have to pay their own rent and other bills. From age 16 to about age 26 I worked for a drugstore in a very low income area in North Huntsville. I didn't really know about section 8 or food stamps before I started working there but just about every employee who worked there was on some sort of welfare program. The employees would openly talk about it as a way of life and not something they wanted to move out from under. They talked about having another child so they could increase their food stamps and overall welfare dollars. Why try to better yourself when you're getting money from several men who you have children by (not through the court system but under the table so not reported on tax), free rent, subsidized utilities and a big bonus every year during tax time? Granted this is just from my experience but it always seemed to me that the folks on these programs would rather stay on them than to work twice as hard and make it on their own. Welfare programs should have some kind of limit on them. If a person is getting their food and housing paid for over 10 years something is wrong there. That was the case during my time working at the drugstore for just about every employee..
The problem is that I have plenty of my own anecdotal evidence (of people that I like you only know some of their life story) that would refute that. I have also spent a ton of time volunteering all over the country in impoverished areas and have my own experiences and those close to me have their experiences. And once I do that we will eventually get to data and then eventually fundamental views of the world which we will ultimately differ in.
Sure but that completely ignores the fact that humans are influenced by outside factors. Which I'm sure where the crux of the disagreement here starts.
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