Most people are idiots. It's really that simple.
Give an idiot who "struggles" to pay his bills more money and he becomes an idiot with extra crap laying around his place who still "struggles" to pay his bills.
Income Inequality
- Thread starter CharminTide
- Start date
Give an idiot who "struggles" to pay his bills more money and he becomes an idiot with extra crap laying around his place who still "struggles" to pay his bills.
Is this a we should go back to slavery argument?
I think a lot of people would be happy just making a fair wage that can even remotely keep pace with inflation.
$10,000 would get me like 1-2 surgeries that I’ve been putting off for years because we can’t afford them. Or fix some of the things on our house that are literally rotting away because we can’t get them fixed. So yeah, I imagine a lot of people would still be in the same boat a year later because a lot of people are already so far behind on other stuff. Not everyone would rush out to the casino & the phone store because they don’t do that now.
You seriously give way to much credit to the average person when it comes to responsible finances. Just curious. What field of work are you in?
Funny that you mention casinos. I worked in the gaming industry for almost a decade and you want me to tell you who makes up the majority of gaming customers? Middle to upper middle class people. People who have no business being in there.
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No, it's a "throwing money at stupid doesn't fix stupid" argument.
If the only reason someone is struggling with finances is that they are underpaid then an increased wage will fix that problem. However, very few people who are struggling with finances are only in that position because they are underpaid. For the vast majority, increasing their wage will have zero long-term effect on their propensity to struggle with finances; they're going to struggle with finances regardless of their wage.
How is saying not everyone would do something giving too much credit exactly?
Because I took it as you meant "the average person" when you were saying "not everyone would run to a casino or buy a phone". Because in reality, one of the biggest problems middle class people have in this country (from a financial standpoint), isn't their wages not being high enough. But rather not being financial responsible with the money they do make.
For the first ten years of my working career (post college) I worked in public accounting. I literally have done thousands of tax returns and financial write up work for clients. The majority of the clients I did work for were middle to upper middle class people. They all had the same problem. Their monetary income didn't support the lifestyle they were trying to live. I'd see clients with $60,000-$100,000 combined income trying to live a lifestyle of a $150,00-$200,000 income. It's a very, very common problem in this country. So before I just jump on board with it's an "income inequality" problem and believe that them simply making more money would solve the issue. I would love to know what percentage of the group we're talking about are actually living within their means and STILL having problems making it.
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Because the upper middle class people are just as broke as the middle class. They are "upper class" in gross income only. The average person doesn't know when enough is enough. The report of markers (credit line/loans to play) that we printed at the end of every month were filled with middle and upper middle class people. When you're taking loans out at a casino to play. You're already in trouble. In all honesty, a casino is for someone who has a ton of discretionary money to lose. Human nature, alcohol and the belief of "I'll win it back" is a bad recipe for most people.
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I don't know the percentage because most of my knowledge of it is anecdotal from myself and people we know. I don't think we can say that one of the biggest problems isn't people's wages being high enough when wages are essentially at 1974 levels still whereas costs and such are at 2018 levels. The problems are very much multi-faceted and not all caused by just that. Student loans as previously discussed here, predatory lending, lack of quality high school education about life skills and critical thinking, healthcare costs, economic policies weighted against lower income people, plain stupidity and greed in some cases, tie-ins with the justice system ruining people's lives (war on drugs type stuff), and on and on.
Of course there are a lot of people that aren't financially responsible. But there's tons of people that still haven't recovered fully from the last recession (we're in this boat), tons that have been devastated by health care costs/issues and tons that are essentially treading water at best and unable to save any money - a lot of different studies are showing this last one. I don't think we can say that a majority of those people are living above their means (unless we start seeing more studies actually focusing on that) but many of them are living below what they should be in "the greatest country on Earth."
That's a pretty broad brush. Just so we are on the same page upper middle class is top 5% of all household incomes minus the 1%ers from every definition I've read. So ~$150k/yr to ~$450k/yr
I've worked for several casinos and there are more $150,000'ers in the casino than $450,000'ers. It may surprise you that a lot of super rich people aren't in the casinos. They simply do not go. Granted each casino have their "high rollers" but it's not like casino's are flooded with the uber rich. They are mostly flooded with those who have no business in there.
It's been my observation that most people who can afford to do stupid stuff are that way because they have bought into a lifestyle of NOT DOING STUPID STUFF! When I was a kid I worked for as little as $1.95/hr but I was just a kid. When I started doing accounting work in the Textile industry many years later my income was meager but I did not have cell phones, internet, netflix, hbo etc. So I was fine. People today seem to think they should start out as successful as someone with an established career.
The examples of bad government policy and horrendous individual choices are endless. I see no reason to have another program run by the government for the benefit of those that are incompetent with their personal finances. Don't need anymore crazy; we're all stocked up here.
If you want to know who makes up the most of a specific casino's clientele. Just look at how the floor is setup. If you walk into a casino and see a ton of penny, $2, $5 etc. slot machines and video poker machines. With table game buy ins between $10-$50. Then it means their clientele is the middle class to upper middle class. Big money people don't waste their time on chump change games like this.
There's no doubt (and I agree) that the problem is multi-faceted. But I don't think the discussion should start at simply income inequality. Because it assumes equal effort and also starting here (as good as the intentions might be) is too easy to progress to a mindset of "This group of people has more money than this group of people and we need to take some from them and give it to these who don't have as much." It's too easy to go down that road. A lot of young adults already have this mindset which I think is disgusting. I think the better starting point is equal opportunity. IMO, that's the fundamental right for everyone in this country. Not income equality. Everyone should have equal opportunity to advance and better themselves and have the opportunity to make all the money they can if they want to put in the effort to do so.
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This is so true of many people under 40 and even more so of people under 30. They feel their first home should be 5000 sq ft, 2 new cars in the driveway, etc and if they are not able to afford it their family needs to chip in and help.
I'd like to quickly summarize the thread for those who are just joining us:
People over 40 said:
My late grandmother had this saying about "the young people today". I use it from time to time when I see it applies.
"Young people today want now what it took me and your granddaddy a lifetime to get." I never forget sitting in her living room when she looked at me and my new wife of less than six months and told us this. She was telling us to enjoy the process and "journey" that it takes to get those things and not to try acquire them "now". Because not only do you get yourself in a lot of unnecessary debt but you don't appreciate what you have as much.
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I don't think I've ever walked into a casino that wasn't set up like this.
IMHO, there's only one healthy way to look at gambling: money spent on entertainment. You have to go in with the mindset of "I'm going to spend X dollars for however much entertainment that will get me." And then you leave either once you've spent that X dollars - and not a penny more - or once you've gotten your fill of entertainment. And that X dollars needs to be a reasonable amount, comparable to whatever else you would reasonably budget for a few hours of entertainment - such as for a round of golf. If you can't afford to spend more than $50 on an average round of golf, you can't afford to spend more than $50 at the casino.
If you can truly approach it with this mindset, then you'll never leave a casino upset. Generally, you'll leave having spent X dollars. Occasionally, you'll leave having spent less. Once in a while, you'll leave having been paid to enjoy some entertainment - though this is usually very rare.
If you can't truly approach it with this mindset, you have no business walking through the door.
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