Meanwhile in Chicago, 9 blacks killed by other blacks over the weekend

selmaborntidefan · Aug 17, 2017

jthomas666 said:
Stop deflecting. you're comparing individual crimes to organized hate. Are you suggesting that white nationalists such as the KKK do not pose a threat to black people?

I'll play this game.

Which is MORE LIKELY to kill a black person in this day and age? A Klansman or another black person?

From 2015 in an article refuting Trump's insane claim of 81% of whites killed by blacks:

The statistics show that the 500 killings of white people attributed to blacks last year were the most since black perpetrators were determined to be responsible for the homicides of 504 white people nationwide in 2008.

The 229 black lives taken by white killers last year, however, marked an even larger leap from 2014, jumping more than 22 percent from the 187 black victims killed by whites that year, which was the second-lowest total since 2001.

===============

Of the 13,455 cases from last year in which the FBI listed a victim's racial information, 7,039 victims – or 52.3 percent – were black
======================

Blacks killed by whites: 229
Blacks killed by blacks (stated to be 89.3%) - (7,039 x .893 = 6,285)

Yeah, I'll admit it's damn close. 6285 murders of blacks by blacks is just barely more than the 229 by whites (and we'll even assume for the sake of this insanity that every single one of those murders was a white nationalist Nazi, even though that number is probably less than 1% of this total).

White nationalism is beyond stupid and can be seen as a threat in OTHER ways (such as civil rights).

But the simple fact is that you're far more likely to get killed as a black by another black than you are by a white nationalist or a white cop.

The fact that the latter gets all the attention suggests to me that the killing of black people is not what REALLY drives the agenda in most cases.

day-day · Aug 17, 2017

selmaborntidefan said:
I'll play this game.

Which is MORE LIKELY to kill a black person in this day and age? A Klansman or another black person?

From 2015 in an article refuting Trump's insane claim of 81% of whites killed by blacks:

The statistics show that the 500 killings of white people attributed to blacks last year were the most since black perpetrators were determined to be responsible for the homicides of 504 white people nationwide in 2008.

The 229 black lives taken by white killers last year, however, marked an even larger leap from 2014, jumping more than 22 percent from the 187 black victims killed by whites that year, which was the second-lowest total since 2001.

===============

Of the 13,455 cases from last year in which the FBI listed a victim's racial information, 7,039 victims – or 52.3 percent – were black
======================

Blacks killed by whites: 229
Blacks killed by blacks (stated to be 89.3%) - (7,039 x .893 = 6,285)

Yeah, I'll admit it's damn close. 6285 murders of blacks by blacks is just barely more than the 229 by whites (and we'll even assume for the sake of this insanity that every single one of those murders was a white nationalist Nazi, even though that number is probably less than 1% of this total).

White nationalism is beyond stupid and can be seen as a threat in OTHER ways (such as civil rights).

But the simple fact is that you're far more likely to get killed as a black by another black than you are by a white nationalist or a white cop.

The fact that the latter gets all the attention suggests to me that the killing of black people is not what REALLY drives the agenda in most cases.

As soon as these Confederate monuments do down, that 229 will drop to zero.

Displaced Bama Fan · Aug 17, 2017

selmaborntidefan said:
I'll play this game.

Which is MORE LIKELY to kill a black person in this day and age? A Klansman or another black person?

From 2015 in an article refuting Trump's insane claim of 81% of whites killed by blacks:

The statistics show that the 500 killings of white people attributed to blacks last year were the most since black perpetrators were determined to be responsible for the homicides of 504 white people nationwide in 2008.

The 229 black lives taken by white killers last year, however, marked an even larger leap from 2014, jumping more than 22 percent from the 187 black victims killed by whites that year, which was the second-lowest total since 2001.

===============

Of the 13,455 cases from last year in which the FBI listed a victim's racial information, 7,039 victims – or 52.3 percent – were black
======================

Blacks killed by whites: 229
Blacks killed by blacks (stated to be 89.3%) - (7,039 x .893 = 6,285)

Yeah, I'll admit it's damn close. 6285 murders of blacks by blacks is just barely more than the 229 by whites (and we'll even assume for the sake of this insanity that every single one of those murders was a white nationalist Nazi, even though that number is probably less than 1% of this total).

White nationalism is beyond stupid and can be seen as a threat in OTHER ways (such as civil rights).

But the simple fact is that you're far more likely to get killed as a black by another black than you are by a white nationalist or a white cop.

The fact that the latter gets all the attention suggests to me that the killing of black people is not what REALLY drives the agenda in most cases.

NM. I see you noted homicides.

Mystical · Aug 19, 2017

JBama_in_PCOLA said:
Let's not be foolish. They hardly ever give race unless its to push agenda.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro[emoji208]

Looks those were hispanic.

JBama_in_PCOLA · Aug 19, 2017

Mystical said:
Looks those were hispanic.

Cool, but it doesn't matter. It's a minority. Left wing media won't show that. That's he point in this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro[emoji208]

NationalTitles18 · Aug 19, 2017

I guess my questions lie along the line of Why bring this up now other than to distract from another problem that is apparently more uncomfortable to address for some?

I mean, you didn't bring it up because you care deeply and are looking for a solution, did you?

If you had come at it with that attitude I might indulge you on the matter.

Think about it: 9 people died and you use their deaths to distract from and cover the actions of people who would just as soon see them dead.

Forgive me if I find it distasteful.

Forgive me if I find it disgusting that racism played a large part in those 9 deaths.

Yes, it did.

Go back and look at how we got here. From the drug laws to the distribution of people to the current economic state (and that for generations) of the black community.

Racism. Racism. Racism. That's how we got here.

So yeah, those 9 deaths are related to the KKK and those who harbor racist beliefs, past and present.

Indirectly, those 9 deaths are due to people like those who marched for white supremacy in Charlottesville.

Now that doesn't absolve the people who pulled the trigger by any means. They are guilty of murder directly.

Society is responsible for the conditions that pushed things in that direction. If we want it to get better then that has to be soberly examined and changed.

Especially when we consider the influence past racists had on those conditions developing.

I'm sorry I ever used this tactic - and I know I did. And I was wrong. Terribly wrong. And cold hearted.

It wasn't that I was racist. It's not that simple. I thought it was good political debate, one upmanship, and clever.

It was none of those.

It offered no real solution and trivialized the deaths of human beings, who not always but often were innocent victims.

So you can keep on doing this, but I want you to think about what you are doing.

I'm sorry for the times I "played" this "game".

I hope that one day you will harbor the same regret for being a part of the problem and not the solution.

CajunCrimson · Aug 20, 2017

NationalTitles16 said:
I guess my questions lie along the line of Why bring this up now other than to distract from another problem that is apparently more uncomfortable to address for some?

I mean, you didn't bring it up because you care deeply and are looking for a solution, did you?

If you had come at it with that attitude I might indulge you on the matter.

Think about it: 9 people died and you use their deaths to distract from and cover the actions of people who would just as soon see them dead.

Forgive me if I find it distasteful.

Forgive me if I find it disgusting that racism played a large part in those 9 deaths.

Yes, it did.

Go back and look at how we got here. From the drug laws to the distribution of people to the current economic state (and that for generations) of the black community.

Racism. Racism. Racism. That's how we got here.

So yeah, those 9 deaths are related to the KKK and those who harbor racist beliefs, past and present.

Indirectly, those 9 deaths are due to people like those who marched for white supremacy in Charlottesville.

Now that doesn't absolve the people who pulled the trigger by any means. They are guilty of murder directly.

Society is responsible for the conditions that pushed things in that direction. If we want it to get better then that has to be soberly examined and changed.

Especially when we consider the influence past racists had on those conditions developing.

I'm sorry I ever used this tactic - and I know I did. And I was wrong. Terribly wrong. And cold hearted.

It wasn't that I was racist. It's not that simple. I thought it was good political debate, one upmanship, and clever.

It was none of those.

It offered no real solution and trivialized the deaths of human beings, who not always but often were innocent victims.

So you can keep on doing this, but I want you to think about what you are doing.

I'm sorry for the times I "played" this "game".

I hope that one day you will harbor the same regret for being a part of the problem and not the solution.

I'm still waiting to hear a solution.

Unless you have a time machine.....you cannot undo what happened. If you do not allow for a solution that employs a "moving forward" mindset, you really have no solution.

We find ourselves not looking to solve the future......but continuously re-fighting the past.

What is the solution to solving this problem?

Do you think DBF sees this as a game? i think his issue is that he's fighting an emotional war with logical tools. And those who are emotional....will try to re-define what history is, what they think the presence is, and they will even emotionally argue what logic is.

I agree, you cannot apply hard data to this emotionally driven problem. Wait, but you can apply hard data to the history....just not the present. It becomes a big pretzel.

But, if anyone can point out to me what the solution is.....and how each of you are a part of it.... I'd be happy to listen....because I want all of this to be over, so we can really begin to enjoy what gift we've been given.

NT16 - I'm glad that you feel you've had personal growth on this issue. But do you see yourself as part of the solution? Then please tell me what that solution is, and what you are doing to be a part of it.

Not sure if posting opinions on TF would be considered a solution....

Otherwise....we would be practicing the wishbone with our stable of 5 RBs

NationalTitles18 · Aug 20, 2017

CajunCrimson said:
I'm still waiting to hear a solution.

Unless you have a time machine.....you cannot undo what happened. If you do not allow for a solution that employs a "moving forward" mindset, you really have no solution.

We find ourselves not looking to solve the future......but continuously re-fighting the past.

What is the solution to solving this problem?

Do you think DBF sees this as a game? i think his issue is that he's fighting an emotional war with logical tools. And those who are emotional....will try to re-define what history is, what they think the presence is, and they will even emotionally argue what logic is.

I agree, you cannot apply hard data to this emotionally driven problem. Wait, but you can apply hard data to the history....just not the present. It becomes a big pretzel.

But, if anyone can point out to me what the solution is.....and how each of you are a part of it.... I'd be happy to listen....because I want all of this to be over, so we can really begin to enjoy what gift we've been given.

NT16 - I'm glad that you feel you've had personal growth on this issue. But do you see yourself as part of the solution? Then please tell me what that solution is, and what you are doing to be a part of it.

Not sure if posting opinions on TF would be considered a solution....

Otherwise....we would be practicing the wishbone with our stable of 5 RBs

Some fair criticisms in there. Some defensiveness. Some misunderstanding. Nevertheless, let me try to explain briefly.

The problem is the attitude. The attitude is that: Racism isn't a problem today near as much as "those people" killing each other. They need to worry about their own community and stop complaining about others until the get their own poo straight. Why should I care about them if they don't care about themselves? And why is racism such a problem if they are just killing each other?

That attitude is somewhat prevalent in "white America". Certainly it influences how people vote, for one thing. So since we don't see a problem or are apathetic about the problems or blame others solely for their problems we vote accordingly. And nothing changes. Because too few people care.

Therefore, changing attitudes is one miniscule part of the solution.

Regurgitating attitudes that often began with and are still perpetuated by racists today is part of the problem as the attitude is a direct impediment to finding solutions.

To place it in another perspective: It's like saying to a battered woman - You married the man. Then you covered for him. You keep going back to him. Why should I care if he threatens to beat you again? vs saying to her - You can get away from this abuse and I'll get you the help you need to do it and protect you from him.

Point being, the analogy is useless except one attitude blames the victim and does nothing to help while the other is supportive of her and is an offer for help.

The analogy would be more useful (though still imperfect) if the "speaker" were largely responsible for previously forcing the marriage and pressuring the woman to stay despite knowing the problems.

I'm under no illusion that I'm going to change the world just by posting on TideFans. That said, if I'm going to be here I may as well try to make a small difference. I work over 40 hours each and every week unless I take some time off to tend to other matters. My family has some needs that go beyond the "typical" family. My time is limited and therefore so is my ability to be an "activist". So I try to make a small difference in my communities. I try to lead by example. I try to be every day what I expect others to be. I can't say I always confront others in similar situations because other issues are involved and that is not always possible or wise. I'm just a fellow trying to do what little I can.

And I figure if someone is going to make a whole new thread here then they can expect a little criticism and deal with it as they see fit.

Essentially, isn't this like a bunch of old guys sitting around down at the local gas station mouthing off at each other? They probably aren't going to change much. They're just talking, after all. Then again, that's what community is all about - right?

So if I can be a voice for good I'd rather do that than be the guy who doesn't care about the community's problems or who isn't looking for solutions. The solutions are often political. All politics is local. At the community level. Community. Just old farts sitting around, talking. With a few young ones looking on, learning, and forming their own opinions that will help shape the future. Isn't that part of it? Isn't that why we teach our own kids right and wrong? Because we care? Because every little bit counts?

Anywho, thanks for noticin'.

selmaborntidefan · Aug 20, 2017

And again demonstrating the SELECTIVE OUTRAGE that seems to accompany the death of blacks in this country.....

Let's see the headlines from our objective and impartial media.....

Kissimmee Police Shooting Leaves Two Officers Dead

But what color were they? That's always somehow important when the "unarmed black killed by police" is brought up.

In this case, we have not one but TWO dead black police officers killed by a black assailant.

How about CNN?

Florida officer dead, 1 injured in shooting

Again, what color was the shooter and what color was the officer? It sure seems to matter to CNN....

And given that these were two black officers, am I supposed to conclude that only SOME black lives matter?

THIS is what a lot of are sick of. This isn't the so-called 'distraction' of 9 dead blacks killed by other blacks in Chicago.

The cops are dead. The cops were black.

Why in the world do we only get protests and riots when the SUSPECT is black?

CajunCrimson · Aug 20, 2017

NationalTitles16 said:
Some fair criticisms in there. Some defensiveness. Some misunderstanding. Nevertheless, let me try to explain briefly.

The problem is the attitude. The attitude is that: Racism isn't a problem today near as much as "those people" killing each other. They need to worry about their own community and stop complaining about others until the get their own poo straight. Why should I care about them if they don't care about themselves? And why is racism such a problem if they are just killing each other?

That attitude is somewhat prevalent in "white America". Certainly it influences how people vote, for one thing. So since we don't see a problem or are apathetic about the problems or blame others solely for their problems we vote accordingly. And nothing changes. Because too few people care.

Therefore, changing attitudes is one miniscule part of the solution.

Regurgitating attitudes that often began with and are still perpetuated by racists today is part of the problem as the attitude is a direct impediment to finding solutions.

To place it in another perspective: It's like saying to a battered woman - You married the man. Then you covered for him. You keep going back to him. Why should I care if he threatens to beat you again? vs saying to her - You can get away from this abuse and I'll get you the help you need to do it and protect you from him.

Point being, the analogy is useless except one attitude blames the victim and does nothing to help while the other is supportive of her and is an offer for help.

The analogy would be more useful (though still imperfect) if the "speaker" were largely responsible for previously forcing the marriage and pressuring the woman to stay despite knowing the problems.

I'm under no illusion that I'm going to change the world just by posting on TideFans. That said, if I'm going to be here I may as well try to make a small difference. I work over 40 hours each and every week unless I take some time off to tend to other matters. My family has some needs that go beyond the "typical" family. My time is limited and therefore so is my ability to be an "activist". So I try to make a small difference in my communities. I try to lead by example. I try to be every day what I expect others to be. I can't say I always confront others in similar situations because other issues are involved and that is not always possible or wise. I'm just a fellow trying to do what little I can.

And I figure if someone is going to make a whole new thread here then they can expect a little criticism and deal with it as they see fit.

Essentially, isn't this like a bunch of old guys sitting around down at the local gas station mouthing off at each other? They probably aren't going to change much. They're just talking, after all. Then again, that's what community is all about - right?

So if I can be a voice for good I'd rather do that than be the guy who doesn't care about the community's problems or who isn't looking for solutions. The solutions are often political. All politics is local. At the community level. Community. Just old farts sitting around, talking. With a few young ones looking on, learning, and forming their own opinions that will help shape the future. Isn't that part of it? Isn't that why we teach our own kids right and wrong? Because we care? Because every little bit counts?

Anywho, thanks for noticin'.

Regulating attitudes. That's a tough one.

Are you saying that Racism is causing people to question why these stories are ignored by the media? Maybe I'm misreading that. If so, I apologize.

NationalTitles18 · Aug 20, 2017

CajunCrimson said:
Regulating attitudes. That's a tough one.

Are you saying that Racism is causing people to question why these stories are ignored by the media? Maybe I'm misreading that. If so, I apologize.

No, we're not regulating attitudes. We're talking about attitudes and how they shape policy. Orwell need not be involved.

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm afraid you are somehow conflating issues or trying to read something that is not there. I think I've been pretty clear if you are "listening" to what I've said and take it, more or less, at face value without trying to add some sort of spin to it.

I'm not sure I can put it in better words, so if you wish go back and read again without pretense.

And no, I don't think the OP is a racist, since that may be implied in your question (just saying for the sake of clarity).

Though their part in it can be argued, I don't think the media caused all the problems in our society. And they won't be the solution. The media are not why people feel as they do. They are deserving of criticism. A lot of criticism. I think it might make a good thread with a lot of active participation.

What I'm criticizing here is the knee-jerk response of white people - like myself - to answer questions about race and racism in our society by pointing out how bad some black people are to other black people, then extrapolating and concluding that black people as a whole don't care about each other and their actions against each other are worse than the collective actions of racists over time against them so what's the problem with a few racists marching in the streets in an attempt to once again influence policy.

IOW, we are justifying our apathy on the subject by demeaning black people as a whole.

And we are doing so without regard for the fact that the only reason we are talking about a "black community" in the first place is because of racism and segregation enforced by racist people and policies through time. Otherwise, it either wouldn't be a problem or we'd be talking about these problems with the sense that they were taking place in our own communities because that's exactly where they'd be happening. There would be no "black community" or "inner city communities" or whatever other euphemisms we can think of to talk about.

And I bet if these things were happening in our own communities we'd be less inclined to cynically use the violence occurring there to say racism isn't a problem and more inclined to consider if race played a role and in what way. We'd be more concerned about our neighbors' feelings regarding past wrongs done to them in our society and how the wrong policies from those days still prevail and cause them suffering (and cause us suffering as well). ETA for clarity: And we'd be more inclined to look for a solution to the violence instead of trivializing it.

If I were black, my perspective would be different and the same is true of many people. It's easier to cast them as the other and be done with it than to put yourself in their shoes for a moment. Been there, done that.

I'm not sure what else you got out of it or what anyone will get out of this, but there it is.

bama2112 · Aug 20, 2017

jthomas666 said:
Are you suggesting that white nationalists such as the KKK do not pose a threat to black people?

When is the last time there was a KKK rally and they shot 9 black people. Your just stirring the pot. The KKK is irrelevant in their number. The media and liberals keep them on the forefront just to blame someone else.

Chukker Veteran · Aug 20, 2017

Reading this thread, I'm just now realizing Saban is underappreciated for keeping our football team from killing each other.

NationalTitles18 · Aug 20, 2017

bama2112 said:
When is the last time there was a KKK rally and they shot 9 black people. Your just stirring the pot. The KKK is irrelevant in their number. The media and liberals keep them on the forefront just to blame someone else.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24102...parishioners-in-the-charleston-church-guilty/

Sure, there was no rally there at the church. Sure, it can be argued that Dylan Roof was not a member of the KKK. He was just a lone white nationalist.

What damage could he possibly do?

We can close our eyes and pretend everything's OK. But frankly, I thought some of the lefty nuts on the internet in the early 2000's were few in number and some of the ideas espoused then were nutty fads. A number of those things are mainstream now. Take, for instance, the idea of doing away with any pretense of due process or fairness in Title IX hearings.

And of course we were told that it only takes the terrorist getting it right one time for another 9/11 to happen so we must give up our civil liberties to prevent that.

Point being, though small in number the potential and recent impacts are quite substantial. Let's not forget that Timothy McVeigh was linked to the white supremacy movement as well.

It doesn't take a throng of people to commit heinous acts of murder.

CajunCrimson · Aug 20, 2017

Page after page.....
Post after post.....

At some point -- you just have to admit....

There are no solutions. We've been making progress in race relations -- like the progress that they made at Hacksaw Ridge (if you've seen the movie, you get it).

Personally - I'm completely fine with removing all Confederate Statues.

I'm even okay if we let folks create a "Morality Hierarchy Chart -- Non Biblical Version" -- so we can know where we draw the line for "Statue worthy" and those who are not.

If we determine that Washington, Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Benjamin Franklin -- etc are not worthy -- I'm fine with taking them off of everything - statues, buildings, money, cities, states, schools, etc.

If we draw the line at "Murder" -- then those below the line are good to go....unless....

If we draw the line above Rapists -- they can keep their statues...... If it's below rapists -- then we need to then include some other folks -- Clinton, MLK, Kobe, Babe Ruth

Just shut down the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame right now....not sure who would be left.....

I'm truly not being sarcastic -- or tongue-in-cheek....

We've gone way too long without a genuine solution. So, let's figure out how to solve this.....if the "Morality Hierarchy Chart - Non Biblical Version" isn't the answer -- let's come up with something else. But, we aren't making any progress this way......

It's time to try something else.

I don't care who you get on the "deciding committee" either -- but, let's solve something.

Personally -- I vote for Coach Saban -- because I think he can solve anything. But, I'm guessing that won't fly....

IMALOYAL1 · Aug 21, 2017

It's time to try something else.

just be helpful to your fellow man.

Redwood Forrest · Aug 21, 2017

One of the problems in this country is we (the Media) must put a label on everyone who disagrees with us. You believe Gay Marriage is wrong? HOMOPHOBE. You believe stealing cars is wrong? Why are you not called THEIFPHOBE?

If you march in support of Aborting a Fetus you a good person and a HERO. If you march against Aborting a Baby you are a villain and labeled a SEXIST Bigot.

If you march to ignore Immigration Laws you are a good person and labeled a Hero. If you march in support of Immigration Laws you are labeled a villain and Racist.

DOUBLE STANDARD THERE, CAN'T YOU SEE? Abortion is Legal and therefore must be protected at all costs. Immigration Quotas are Legal but THEY ARE NOT TO BE PROTECTED AT ALL, just ignored.

If you believe in free speech in Charlottesville Va, you are automatically labeled Nazi, KKK and all sorts of labels. EVEN IF YOU HATE NAZI'S AND SLAVERY you are labeled Nazi and KKK.

If you believe free speech means attacking a rally then you are a good person and a hero.

I believe in free speech and peaceful assembly. Uh Oh .... I am a Nazi and Racist, right?

Crimson1967 · Aug 21, 2017

I must not be paying close attention, I've never noticed anybody here I'd describe as anti-white.

cbi1972 · Aug 21, 2017

Chukker Veteran said:
Reading this thread, I'm just now realizing Saban is underappreciated for keeping our football team from killing each other.

I think it's really really important that, um, players respect, I think, respect other players on the team. Uh, have a respect for what that player's trying to do to be successful. Uh, we have a rule on our team where you don't talk to the other team. You don't talk to the other players.

And a part of that is, is, you know, when people talk, sometimes they lose focus on what they're supposed to be doing.

The other part of that is, you know, when people talk and uh, they sometimes make other people emotional. And when you get emotional, I think you make emotional decisions, which
you know, can lead to loss of control, which means, you know, all of a sudden I take a shot at somebody, or I take a punch at somebody, and the last I checked, those things are all penalties, uh, some could lead to ejection. So, you know, what you're trying to practice is, trying to practice the right habits, so you can go in the game and do it in the game.

And, I know you guys probably think practice is, "well I'm just going to practice it until I can get it right"

I think practice is "you practice until so much you can't get it wrong"

Aight, so to me, there's never a time, aight, for guys to lose their cool. I think those are selfish decisions that are emotional decisions that don't really help your team.
And if you get in the habit of doing that, then you're more apt to doing it in the game, uh, because a guy gets under your skin and the next thing you know, you know, throw a punch.

92tide · Aug 21, 2017

Crimson1967 said:
I must not be paying close attention, I've never noticed anybody here I'd describe as anti-white.

you need a pair of these.

Meanwhile in Chicago, 9 blacks killed by other blacks over the weekend

TideFans Legend

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

All-American

TideFans Legend

TideFans Legend

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast

TideFans Legend

TideFans Legend

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast

TideFans Legend

All-American

Hall of Fame

TideFans Legend

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast

All-American

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

TideFans Legend

TideFans.shop - NEW Stuff!