Poll: For our African-American posters, which of these flags do you see as racist symbols?

Which of these flags do you see as racist symbols?

  • Any and all Confederate flags

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • First official flag of the Confederacy

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Second official flag of the Confederacy

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Third official flag of the Confederacy

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Confederate Battle Flag

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • Confederate Navy Jack

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • No Confederate flags

    Votes: 5 45.5%

  • Total voters
    11

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
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Hooterville, Vir.
Vandals topple Confederate soldier statue at Camp Chase cemetery, take head
At Camp Chase where Federal officials, who did have the means to feed prisoners, let them starve by the thousands.

And not just southerners. Kentucky Democrats as well.
John A. Marshall said:
No more flagrant outrage upon the rights of citizens was perpetrated during the war, than the arrests made at Maysville, Kentucky, on the 2d of October, 1861, by General William Nelson. ... On the morning of the 2d of October, 1861, two hundred armed soldiers, from the camp, under General Nelson's orders, were marched into the city, and stationed at the market-house. Squads were sent out, and the following gentlemen, whose names had been selected by the political coterie who controlled General Nelson, were suddenly seized and placed in custody of the armed force at the market-house: the Hon. Richard H. Stanton, James H. Hall, Washington B. Tottle, Benjamin F. Thomas, Wm. Hunt, Isaac Nelson, George Forrester, and William T. Costoe. ... The gentlemen arrested at Maysville had committed no offence, done no act, which authorized their arrest, or in any manner compromitted themselves as loyal citizens. They were never apprised of any charges made against them. They were arrested, exiled from the State, and imprisoned, for no other reason than being Democrats. ... The prisoners were hurried off to Camp Chase, where they were confined, with two hundred others, in a plank enclosure of about one hundred and fifty feet square, during the whole of the month of October. When the prisoners were thrust into this pen, no particular place was assigned them. They were compelled to depend upon the charity of those occupying the place before their arrival, for a spot upon which to rest themselves. Sixteen men were huddled together in each of the little plank shanties within the enclosure, and required to eat and sleep, crammed together, like so many hogs in a railroad car. This the Maysville prisoners were compelled to endure for a month. The Andersonville prison, or any other in the Confederacy, could not have been worse in its accommodations than Camp Chase, during the month of October, 1861. ... They were kept in Fort Lafayette (NY) for two months, and then discharged, without having been allowed a trial or even informed of any charges which existed against them.

Christopher Columbus monument in Baltimore smashed to combat ‘white supremacy’

Columbus Circle monument could be next statue to go

And today's winner:
Feds: Texas man tried planting bomb on Confederate statue
 
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Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
13,177
287
Hooterville, Vir.
Came across this today. There seemed to be a trend line running through Appalachia.
Not quite right.
The dark areas were not "against secession." They were against immediate unilateral secession. The people of the day called this position "cooperationist." Cooperation consisted of several positions. One was "I don't want my state to secede unilaterally, only to have everyone else chicken out at the last minute, leaving my state to take on the states in the Union by itself." Cooperationism also consisted of people who wanted to present a set of ultimata to the northern states, wait a specified amount of time for the northern states to respond, and if they had not met the ultimata, then the state should secede. Finally, Cooperationists included people who felt secession was unconstitutional in any case or those who did not want to secede at all. Secessionists derisively called these "Submissionists." This latter category was exceedingly rare in the southern states, especially in the Deep South (although I dare say included Earl's Great grandfather).
The first two categories, however, are secessionists, just "slower" secessionists.
Read the proceedings of the Alabama Convention of 1861 to hear cooperationists explain it themselves.
 
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Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
13,177
287
Hooterville, Vir.
Two other points.
Secessionists derisively called the cooperationists "submissionists," as in, "willing to submit to the rule of a Republican." Cooperationists angrily rejected the appellation.
George Whatley of Calhoun introduced a "test" resolution to test the relative strengths of immediate unilateral secessionists and cooperationists, whom he called "submissionists."
William R. Smith, of Tuscaloosa (a cooperationists) responded:

Mr. President--I do not object, so much to the resolutions themselves, as to the reasons assigned by the gentleman, [Mr. Whatley,] for their introduction. It is proclaimed that this is intended as a test; the test as to submission! The intimation is ungenerous. It is inconsistent with the desires of harmony and conciliation that have been openly expressed here by all parties. It is an injudicious beginning of our deliberations. It is true, that it has been ascertained by the elections which have just been had here, that we are a minority. I am of that minority; but I do not associate with submissionists! There is not one in our company. We scorn the prospective Black Republican rule as much as the gentleman from Calhoun, [Mr. Whatley,] or any of his friends.
One low-life PhD from Auburn wrote in a book that James Eason of north Georgia, during the voting for the Georgia Convention, had been "intimidated into not voting," thus showing that Unionists voter turnout had been suppressed by violence.
I went and checked the original document he cited and what Eason actually said was there was only an immediate unilateral secessionist candidate and a cooperation candidate. Eason judged that "there was only about five or six days’ difference between them (the secessionists and the cooperationist),” so he declined to vote for either of them. He was not intimidated out of voting, he was a straight up Unionist, and no candidate running on that platform was running, so he declined to vote at all.
Historians who falsify the historical record to make their point are odious to me.
 

CharminTide

Hall of Fame
Oct 23, 2005
7,319
2,032
187
John Kelly said:
The lack of an ability to compromise led to the Civil War, and men and women of good faith on both sides made their stand where their conscience had them make their stand.
Okay. Ignoring the fact that U.S. history prior to the Civil War was a long series of compromises to slaveholders (Missouri Compromise, Compromise of 1850, Kansas-Nebraska Act, 3/5th Compromise, etc.), this was the Confederacy's opening bid. How do you compromise with this, Kelly?

Alexander H. Stephens said:
Our new government is founded upon exactly this idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Jefferson Davis said:
The condition of slavery with us is, in a word, Mr. President, nothing but the form of civil government instituted for a class of people not fit to govern themselves. It is exactly what in every State exists in some form or other. It is just that kind of control which is extended in every northern State over its convicts, its lunatics, its minors, its apprentices. It is but a form of civil government for those who by their nature are not fit to govern themselves. We recognize the fact of the inferiority stamped upon that race of men by the Creator, and from the cradle to the grave, our Government, as a civil institution, marks that inferiority.
 

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