If I had not seen the game and all I had to go by was some of the threads on this board, i would have guessed we lost.
Question: Offensive playcalling
- Thread starter ggw98
- Start date
That's why you don't view one or two threads in a vacuum and use it to paint the entire picture. There have been more than ample praises of what we did right mentioned on this board. It's just that Jalen's development in the pocket was a point of emphasis in the offseason by the coaches. It is also going to go a long ways in how far we go as a team this season. Teams showed they had the ability to adjust and force Jalen to stay in the pocket and throw or force a scramble out of bounds for a four yard loss. So his development was kind of a big deal so of course it's what people were watching for in the first game. Fla St was a big time test of how far he'd come. So naturally people are going to discuss it.
If we think it is a little uncomfortable discussing JH's progression or lack thereof right now, I can't imagine the controversy if Tua plays the next few games and shows he's completely beyong JH in reading defenses and going thru progressions AND being able to deliver the ball on time.
Even if this happens it doesn't mean he's a better QB for us now, because we already know what JH's brings to the table in terms of his running ability. That talent is a real weapon even when his passing isn't where we'd like it to be.
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Against Florida State, a very good defense, Jalen played one of the best games he's ever played at quarterback since signing with UA.
Those who know little or absolutely nothing about football will disagree vehemently.
There's a good reason-- They know little or absolutely nothing about football.
Coach Saban, in his presser, said, "I thought Jalen played very well".
He's right.
If you look at the youtube highlight video, Jalen stepped up in the pocket when he could, threw the ball well when he did, he only bailed the pocket when he had no other choice, and he made plays with his legs when he could.
He was rushed like crazy all night long.
After watching the video about three times I was wrong to criticize the play calling. The problem was the execution of the offensive line combined with the talent of the Florida State defense.
FSU had a great game plan on defense. Jalen made no mistakes that they were counting on.
He played great.
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I am with you Sip. You have been on the money for the past few years about the quarterbacks. I don't want Selma to double check my memory though. :smile:
I really didn't comment on Jalen's play, just that his progress is being debated.
But I think the bolded statement is a little over the top. He could have played better and his progress, at the point, is TBD.
I am talking about all the negativity. It is like reading a game thread which I now stay out of for this reason.
I don't see "all the negativity." It's got to the point where one can't make an objective comment without offending JH's cheering section.
FWIW, I'm in it too, but that doesn't mean I can't see he's still tucking and running sometimes.
I always knew before the snap if JH was going to tuck it and run. I probably shouldn't say what gave it away but I'm sure others more knowledgeable also saw what I saw. If FSU was in man coverage. Maybe not 100% of the time but very often. One time JH threw for a TD while FSU was in man and I'm sure there were other times but often.
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I'm about as far from a football coach as anyone. If reading open receivers is a problem, couldn't it help him to throw quick slants and plays that don't take a lot of time to develop? He was getting rushed pretty hard by FSU, can he change the play at the LOS or does Daboll do that? We've got a very talented young man in Jalen and I think he has improved from last year. Again I'm not a coach so take my opinion with a grain of salt!
So true, he definitely played very well. I think people have this goal of seeing him throw it up and down the field, but against that FSU defense...it's in Saban's DNA to play LSU ball, AKA be conservative offensively, rely on the defense and special teams and certainly the offense to capitalize on mistakes. Especially with a relatively comfortable lead, which Bama had most of the 2nd half. Nothing to change the momentum.
Regarding his direct play...he managed the game under high high pressure all night long, and didn't make a mistake. His only mistake IMO was his first throw of the game and he could've thrown a bomb to Ridley who was open, or simply taken a likely 25 yard catch and run from Foster on the slant, and he overthrew Ridley to the sideline (A safe mistake). He managed the heavy pressure from a porous line and playcalling that didn't quite help the pressure, and the line didn't allow them to run the ball well either. He scrambled for 55 yards, and besides the no turnover game, probably kept them with neutral or positive plays maybe 95% of the game (I.E. getting back to the LOS, throwing it away when under pressure, or positive scrambles).
If just a couple of other plays went the right way, the narrative would've been how great he was. If that first pass was on the money to Ridley or he took the slant to Foster; If Ridley wasn't grabbed for the other big bomb pass for a 2nd TD. If Ridley was able to come down in bounds after that great out route pass. If Riggs brought in that perfect end zone pass.
Aside from his long successful bomb to Ridley, and his scrambling, and safe decision making as a true sophomore, I believe that the 2pt conversion gets lost. That was a situation where he was being pursued heavily and created a "TD" off the scramble throwing backwards and leading Ridley to a place that only he could've gotten the ball.
It would've gotten everyone's rocks off to see a 300 yd game with 50 rush yard game, but a tough opponent like FSU where a mistake could've turned the momentum, proper game management could do the trick, unless we needed more, and we didn't need more. But, play calling to help off set the blitzes would've been helpful too. I mean we could see the edge blitzes a mile away, but no protection there or any screens. QB options? We'll get that figured out. IMO damn near perfect first game against this type of opponent where obvious negatives will be corrected.
Just to make the other position clear, Pro Football Focus graded Hurts performance and named him SEC Player of the Week at his position. These guys evaluate, that's what they do, and clearly they saw something they liked in his performance (and are not exactly Bama homers, they had only one other Alabama player on their SEC Team of the Week).
So, part of the issue is a disconnect between for instance Hurts winning SEC Player of the Year, and some Alabama fans expecting him to lose his job. This is carry over from that, in which Hurts goes out, objectively speaking performs well, and there's still some people that seem really upset (including a thread basically calling for Tua to play over Hurts). So are people defensive? Yeah, because not everyone is giving Hurts his due credit.
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Moon that wasn't intended for you at all. It was a general statement intended for all those who blame every shortcoming about any offense on the Quarterback.
I've got to remember to start embedding "if you disagree with what I'm saying, you're a complete idiot" into my opinions. Especially when there's not much substantive support for them!
We played probably one of the best defense's in the country, I think being the first game we did pretty well. There is room for improvement.. RTR
Sorry sip - this statement is way over the top. I've watched the game three times now, and while Jalen did some things very well, made some great throws and never turned the ball over, the topic ever since last season was about jalen's progress in reading a defense and going through progressions. In this area, based on the FSU game, I don't think we have any evidence he's progressed. Maybe it was his best game (I wouldn't claim that as I'd probably pick the Auburn game, even with the picks and LSU was probably comparable) but that doesn't mean he's improved in the areas mentioned.
The PFF guys place a very high premium on "big time throws" and Jalen made several. He's absolutely got the arm to get the ball there and that's why he received the grade from them he did. They don't however look at the play holistically - i.e. - was there a pre-snap read not made, or did he break from the pocket faster than he should have. Jalen's scramble and completion that was called back is a great example of this. had that play stood, it would have been scored as a big time throw, and a very good play by Jalen, which it was. It would not account for the missed read on getting the ball to Bo, who was open with only one db on that side of the field who was covering the WR. Had he dropped the ball off to Bo, which likely would have been a TD, that play would receive a lower PFF ranking than the scramble and completion because it would have been an easier throw. Basically PFF rates explosive type plays much higher than being efficient and consistent on offense as a whole (which isn't an individual player ranking, but is potentially more important to the team winning games).[URL="https://www.tidefans.com/forums/member.php?u=11743" said:
For the record, I'm not calling for Jalen to be benched or anything like that. I am, however, hoping we see him improve his ability get to the second and third receivers in the pattern and make play adjustments to exploit the defensive alignment pre-snap. I also hope to see him step up into the pocket and continue to look for receivers instead of defaulting to a scramble toward the sideline. We have not seen that yet. If he can do this, and Daboll adjusts to 1) target the middle of the field 2) have more slants and short routes so Jalen has an option to get the ball out fast when blitzed and 3) introduce draws or screens to increase the risk for a DC to send the blitz every play we have a greater chance of getting another trophy this year.
To bring the two comments above together - interestingly enough, the PFF guys rated the OL as very good against the pass rush. I'm not sure I'd agree with that, but I don't think they were, individually, as bad as it looked. The pressure very often was coming through when FSU overloaded the rush to one side. They would often send 4 from one side and 1-2 from the other, forcing the offside guard to slide way, way over, leave the offside OT on an island, and isolate a blitzer on the RB. I think the only thing that will stop that is playcalling (points 2 and 3 above) as long developing plays with three step drops from a shotgun snap just aren't going to work against a DC who is that committed to blitzing.
We were very, very inefficient in the second half. our longest scoring drive was 16 yards for a FG. Our longest drive was 18 yards (missed FG). Without the turnovers creating the short field, I'm not sure we score at all. This is where Jalen does deserve a lot of credit in that he never created a situation that put the defense in with their backs to the wall. Yes I know the throw to Ruggs was on the money and he should have caught it for a score (on the 18 yard drive where we missed the FG). This goes back to play calling. The pass to the end zone was on 3rd and 3, and Bo had been pretty successful on the ground on that drive. IMHO, this is where I'd rather see Daboll chose to grind out first downs, chew up clock, wear down the D and eventually score instead of going for it all on one shot with what is probably a 50-50 pass at best.
This is a multi-layered issue, but here's the thing. We have nonsense mixed in with fair, objective analysis. It's hard to address one without addressing the other. Case in point, we have that absurd Tua thread, and we have this thread, and and we see some of the same people here or there, that we've seen in various threads about Hurts and it does all start to mix together a bit.
We had posters here openly state (prior to the stupid post recently) Tua should start. We had posters that thought the Arizona St. backup would have overtaken Hurts had he not transferred. We saw a lot of silliness and absurdity, I recall at one point Hurts being called one of the word downfield passers in college football. This isn't on some cesspool of nonsense, this is on this very forum! So you look at a poster like Sip, who might seem like he's overreacting, but he's seen the same nonsense I've seen and I don't think such harsh rebuttals are as over the top as they might seem if you consider the broader context. There's a giant gap between the people basically hoping he sits and the people that (legitimately I might add) view him as one of the best sophomore QBs there is.
Now, back to analysis and where Hurts is. The truth is we don't really know for sure yet. We have seen some positive indications, like A-Day, but how can we fairly evaluate him? He faced 4 great defenses in a row, no one, no quarterback in the nation has faced a gauntlet like that! None. We can't compare because we lack the comparisons. I did point out though that guys like Eason and JT did worse against those same teams. On top of that, certainly none did it as a true freshman/sophomore with 3 different OCs!
So, we can objectively say he performed well last season. SEC Offensive Player of the Year, probably the best true freshman QB season ever. But, we can't see around the corner to the point we'd know how he'd looked if he didn't have to face the #1 SoS or if he had an normal play caller situation. Furthermore, this year, new OC, again, elite defense faced. What more can we take away than he did well considering the circumstance? He isn't superman, he did well, the other QB, on the other team looks like NFL talent but we all know he didn't do as well because of the picks.
We owe Hurts a couple games against less than elite defenses, and with the same coordinator before we try to figure out how much better he is this year than last year. But, I will add this. As of right now he's still the best QB in the SEC. I'm not saying the best passer, but the best QB. Someone has to either come along and outdo him, which hasn't happened yet, or he has to take a step back, which also hasn't happened yet.
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Good post and I mostly agree. Only one thing I'd suggest: When someone makes a rationale, objective observation about JH, those who think he's the best in the SEC don't need to act like we are calling for him not to start or play anymore.
As you say, it seems he's trending in the right direction, but his progression still is undetermined. We need to see how he does against a couple of weaker team like FS and CS. and then how he plays against the next elite defense.
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