Game Thread: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD: Bama vs. Fresno St...

4Q Basket Case

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Nov 8, 2004
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I think we're talking about two different things here.

As Earle has said on this thread, and many ones have said many times: If the DB is out of phase, even by just a little, and looks back, the distance between him and the receiver inevitably increases. That makes both breaking up the pass, and making the tackle after the catch, harder.

In that case, the best chance for forcing an incompletion is to strip the ball out as the WR is trying to secure the catch.

Only if the DB is in phase should he look back.

With consideration of hip position, shoulder position, and footwork in relation to the receiver's, what's in phase and what's not gets complicated beyond my understanding. But if we non-coaches think of it as really, really good coverage vs. anything even the least bit less, we'll have a decent walking around understanding.

Regarding pass interference, turning the head is just one point of evidence that the DB was trying for the ball. When the ball is thrown, the DB and the WR have equal right to it. So if there is contact and the DB is looking back, he can better claim that he's going for a ball that by rule is just as much his as the WR's. If there's contact, and no effort to locate the ball, that case is much harder to make.

If there's no contact, yet there's a PI flag, that's just a bad call, regardless of where the DB's head is.

Again, it's two different issues. One is the impact of locating the ball (or not) on the DB's chances of forcing an incompletion. The other is its influence on whether the refs throw a flag for PI.
 
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Rush

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Jul 5, 2011
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Not meaning in any way to deviate from the excellent discussion of this VERY important point - which, I don't mind saying, has caused me no small amount of consternation, but I can't think of anywhere better to post this, sooooooo, I've been trying to confirm whether Isiah Buggs played in the last game, and have been unable to.

Anyone have any info / insights?
 
Last edited:

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
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I think we're talking about two different things here.

As Earle has said on this thread, and many ones have said many times: If the DB is out of phase, even by just a little, and looks back, the distance between him and the receiver inevitably increases. That makes both breaking up the pass, and making the tackle after the catch, harder.

In that case, the best chance for forcing an incompletion is to strip the ball out as the WR is trying to secure the catch.

Only if the DB is in phase should he look back.

With consideration of hip position, shoulder position, and footwork in relation to the receiver's, what's in phase and what's not gets complicated beyond my understanding. But if we non-coaches think of it as really, really good coverage vs. anything even the least bit less, we'll have a decent walking around understanding.

Regarding pass interference, turning the head is just one point of evidence that the DB was trying for the ball. When the ball is thrown, the DB and the WR have equal right to it. So if there is contact and the DB is looking back, he can better claim that he's going for a ball that by rule is just as much his as the WR's. If there's contact, and no effort to locate the ball, that case is much harder to make.

If there's no contact, yet there's a PI flag, that's just a bad call, regardless of where the DB's head is.

Again, it's two different issues. One is the impact of locating the ball (or not) on the DB's chances of forcing an incompletion. The other is its influence on whether the refs throw a flag for PI.
Agree with all. The contact is regarded a little differently between the pros and NCAA. Any contact without looking back for the ball will draw a flag in the pros. However, in the FSU game, the receiver stopped short at the goal line when he realized the ball was underthrown and our DB ran into him. The FSU fans felt cheated but it was the correct call. He wasn't looking back and, since the receiver had a step on him, under Saban's rules, he shouldn't have looked back...
 

CrimsonProf

Hall of Fame
Dec 30, 2006
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Birmingham, Alabama
I think we're talking about two different things here.

As Earle has said on this thread, and many ones have said many times: If the DB is out of phase, even by just a little, and looks back, the distance between him and the receiver inevitably increases. That makes both breaking up the pass, and making the tackle after the catch, harder.

In that case, the best chance for forcing an incompletion is to strip the ball out as the WR is trying to secure the catch.

Only if the DB is in phase should he look back.

With consideration of hip position, shoulder position, and footwork in relation to the receiver's, what's in phase and what's not gets complicated beyond my understanding. But if we non-coaches think of it as really, really good coverage vs. anything even the least bit less, we'll have a decent walking around understanding.

Regarding pass interference, turning the head is just one point of evidence that the DB was trying for the ball. When the ball is thrown, the DB and the WR have equal right to it. So if there is contact and the DB is looking back, he can better claim that he's going for a ball that by rule is just as much his as the WR's. If there's contact, and no effort to locate the ball, that case is much harder to make.

If there's no contact, yet there's a PI flag, that's just a bad call, regardless of where the DB's head is.

Again, it's two different issues. One is the impact of locating the ball (or not) on the DB's chances of forcing an incompletion. The other is its influence on whether the refs throw a flag for PI.
These are helpful distinctions - I think we're all continually frustrated by the announce crews commenting about turning heads.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,625
39,852
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Not meaning in any way to deviate from the excellent discussion of this VERY important point - which, I don't mind saying, has caused me no small amount of consternation, but I can't think of anywhere better to post this, sooooooo, I've been trying to confirm whether Isiah Buggs played in the last game, and have been unable to.

Anyone have any info / insights?
He did...


LINK
 

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