UAB attendance back to normal

JamieSPC

1st Team
Aug 29, 2004
785
172
67
Maylene, AL
It's not all about Alabama and Auburn. I got my grad degree from Alabama, but did undergrad at JSU. There was and is always a good, consistent crowd. It's a great game day experience in a really nice stadium, with a good and sometimes great product on the field, not to mention an ouststanding band. My wife's undergrad degree is from UNA. Same deal with the product on the field, and even though they play in a municipal stadium, they still draw.

UAB wanted to be something bigger than it is. Should've stayed FCS, built a small, nifty stadium, and built a cult appeal. Instead they lose millions trying to outkick their coverage, and pretty much embody what everyone accuses UA and AU of: putting an outsize emphasis and way too much money into athletics when the school can have and does have more important things to do.

That's why there is so much head scratching, and even some animosity...
 
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CrimsonProf

Hall of Fame
Dec 30, 2006
5,716
69
67
Birmingham, Alabama
It's not all about Alabama and Auburn. I got my grad degree from Alabama, but did undergrad at JSU. There was and is always a good, consistent crowd. It's a great game day experience in a really nice stadium, with a good and sometimes great product on the field, not to mention an ouststanding band. My wife's understand degree is from UNA. Same deal with the product on the field, and even though they play in a municipal stadium, they still draw.

UAB wanted to be something bigger than it is. Should've stayed FCS, built a small, nifty stadium, and built a cult appeal. Instead they lose millions trying to outkick their coverage, and pretty much embody what everyone accuses UA and AU of: putting an outsize emphasis and way too much money into athletics when the school can have and does have more important things to do.

That's why there is so much head scratching, and even some animosity...

This and the Bartow/Bryant beef.
 

Redwood Forrest

Hall of Fame
Sep 19, 2003
11,047
914
237
77
Boaz, AL USA
How is Alabama (the school) harmed by the UAB program?
Here is the deal. In 1991 UAB decided to start a Div II football team. They went 5-6, 5-6 and 4-7. Not bad for a startup with no tradition, no stadium and very few first generation fans. I was a fan and kept up with them via newspaper.

Then for some unknown reason no one can understand, UAB decided they wanted to play with Alabama and Auburn and Troy. Troy actually has a stadium and fans, and in the same time frame has EIGHT winning seasons and SIX bowl games.

From 1999 until today UAB has had TWO winning seasons and ONE bowl game.

If UAB would move back down where they belong (not FBS) they would prolly solve all their problems cause you don't need twenty-five thousand fans and an armored truck full of gold bars.
 
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TiderMan

All-SEC
Feb 5, 2005
1,360
113
87
55
Moody, AL.
How is Alabama (the school) harmed by the UAB program?
Alabama is not harmed at all by UAB having a D1 football program. Most people just like to rail on things they don't like and claim some some sense of false outrage. For Alabama and the fans of Alabama, the UAB program is not a factor and is not worth worrying about.

I will say that the best thing about UAB football is that it gives 85 players a scholarship and a chance to play D1 football. A lot of those players come from the Alabama area and that is a good thing.
 

Redwood Forrest

Hall of Fame
Sep 19, 2003
11,047
914
237
77
Boaz, AL USA
Alabama is not harmed at all by UAB having a D1 football program. Most people just like to rail on things they don't like and claim some some sense of false outrage. For Alabama and the fans of Alabama, the UAB program is not a factor and is not worth worrying about.

I will say that the best thing about UAB football is that it gives 85 players a scholarship and a chance to play D1 football. A lot of those players come from the Alabama area and that is a good thing.
I don't have a sense of outrage, I just don't like being called out by the two dozen UAB fans for their failure being MY FAULT. Well, I guess to be truthful that does outrage me. Guilty, but it is not false.
 

GP for Bama

All-American
Feb 3, 2011
4,335
1,100
187
I just don't like how UAB tends to blame Bama for all their athletic problems. The whole narrative about Bama wanting their football program cancelled was just false.
 

TideEngineer08

TideFans Legend
Jun 9, 2009
36,318
31,033
187
Beautiful Cullman, AL
There Birmingham boosters who are convinced that Birmingham cannot continue to flourish without a local sports team, and UAB is the obvious answer to that problem. I think they're wrong, but that's part of the thinking.

I work in a municipal institution and have access to a free ticket each home game. Unlikely to use it but I can't help but wonder how many in the stands are using a free ticket and wouldn't pay real money to attend.

UAB is going to learn that an awful lot of their "support" came from Auburn and other SEC fans who used UAB as a cudgel to beat up on Alabama. I personally know several folks - fans of many other SEC schools - who took that very approach.
Yep. This was obvious to anyone. I always found it interesting to take note of the voices that all of a sudden became vocal supporters of UAB when I had never heard a peep out of them concerning the Blazers before the program was slated to be purged. Usually they were the ones that were vocal in their disdain for Alabama. And now that UAB is back, and their attendance issues are predictably rearing their heads again, you won't hear a peep out of them again.
 

Tide1986

Suspended
Nov 22, 2008
15,670
2
0
Birmingham, AL
How is Alabama (the school) harmed by the UAB program?
I have no issue with satellite locations of the University fielding sports teams in lower divisions. No need for a school to compete against itself for talent, especially in a small-population state like Alabama.
 

bama61

1st Team
Aug 24, 2004
655
29
52
North Alabama
There have been a ton of threads on this board about this over time, so it seems that many people care. They just hate the program instead of supporting it.

I would like to know why UAB is so disliked.
As is often the case, animosity lingers on long after the reasons for it are forgotten. Gene Bartow, who was brought in by UAB to set up a basketball program and stayed on to coach it, engaged in something of a feud with Coach Bryant. Having head-to-head recruiting problems with Alabama coaches, Coach Bartow wrote a letter to the NCAA accusing the former Alabama AD, one Paul Bryant, of having fostered a culture of cheating, mentioning several of Bryant's former players who as coaches had run afoul of the NCAA as examples. Alabama essentially cut off any sports activities between the two schools, something that has continued in football and basketball, although women's sports teams for the two schools now compete against one another. Here's an article on the situation from the LA Times that was published around 25 years ago:

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-08-05/sports/sp-20797_1_gene-bartow

I might add that since that incident occurred back around 1991 that for most of the time since Alabama's AD's have been former players that were coached by Paul Bryant and the Gene Bartow remains the Godhead of UAB sports, which probably explains why the feud between the athletic departments has so long outlived the both of the coaches. Also several of the members of the Board of Trustees over the years may have played some part, but that is just idle surmise on my part. Perhaps Earle might take the opportunity to elaborate or correct me on this.
 
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deliveryman35

Hall of Fame
Jul 26, 2003
12,998
1,194
287
55
Gadsden, AL
I just don't like how UAB tends to blame Bama for all their athletic problems. The whole narrative about Bama wanting their football program cancelled was just false.
Agreed. It was strictly a prudent business decision by the BOT that made total sense given all the facts. The program was under water financially and no where near self-sustaining, and played( and playing now) regularly in almost-empty legion field on a regular basis. By reinstating it under pressure from a few wealthy alumni and city leaders in Bham they've simply agreed to keep throwing money down a rat hole to calm everybody down and end the negative media frenzy in Birmingham. Collectively they practically did everything but burn UAB president Ray Watts in effigy over the whole ordeal and conducted a smear campaign on our prominent BOT members.
 
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BamaJama17

Hall of Fame
Sep 17, 2006
16,365
8
47
34
Hoover, AL
Well the biggest reason (nobody wants to mention) UAB even had 45k in attendance is because they were playing an in-state school (black college) Alabama A&M in a city with a large black population with a probably good size A&M alumni that live in Birmingham/Jefferson County. Also mix that with a good excitement for UAB being back and a good social event for locals. If UAB wants good home crowds then they should be playing A&M, State, JSU, Samford, and Troy on a regular basis.
 
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Redwood Forrest

Hall of Fame
Sep 19, 2003
11,047
914
237
77
Boaz, AL USA
Agree with that, BamaJama17. But to play the instate schools they would have go independent, which would be better for them anyway. They could add Ga State, Ga Southern, and some more three or four hour drives for fans.

But .....to do that would be admitting they were wrong.
 

CrimsonProf

Hall of Fame
Dec 30, 2006
5,716
69
67
Birmingham, Alabama
They could have stayed FCS and had great rivalries with Jax State, Samford, Wofford, etc., but nooooooooooooooooo.

I'm totally down with whole revive Birmingham deal but a lot of people think being pro-Birmingham means being pro-UAB athletics, and it just doesn't work that way.
 

PitMaster

Suspended
Aug 24, 2015
2,281
1
0
There have been a ton of threads on this board about this over time, so it seems that many people care. They just hate the program instead of supporting it.

I would like to know why UAB is so disliked.
Having grown up in Birmingham in the 1970s, and having family in that area going back over 100 years, I will give you my perspective. Bear in mind that UAB is an urban campus, a largely commuter school, and most local students already were Alabama or Auburn fans, and identified much more closely with those campuses. UAB was where they went to school, but athletically, their heart lay in Tuscaloosa or Auburn. You just cannot get the "warm fuzzies" about a campus in a concrete jungle like you can a campus located in Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Baton Rouge, etc.

UAB decided in the mid 1970s to start a Division 1 Basketball program, commencing in 1978. They scored a huge coup in luring Gene Bartow as Head Coach, who was the successor to John Wooden at UCLA. I believe Bartow envisioned being able to create a program like Memphis, one of his former coaching stops. They actually had a contest in local media to create the team nickname, which obviously became the Blazers (in large part, I think, due to the fact the Portland Trail BLAZERS had just won the NBA Championship). There was actually excitement and interest within the local community, and excitement about Basketball as a sport was at that time more prevalent than today.

And the program started with a bang. Good product, good crowds, even filling the 17, 654 seats of the Birmingham-Jefferson Civic Center. People like me were devout Alabama or Auburn folks, but still bought tickets and went to cheer the Blazers. All was well within the kingdom, and the subjects content.

But then, quickly, in the mid 1980s things began to sour a bit. There was a lot of TOP talent in Alabama, especially in the Birmingham area - and some intense recruiting battles for that talent occurred between Bama and the Blazers. Head Coaches Wimp Sanderson and of Alabama and Bartow began developing an enmity that would only increase over time. When UAB lost some of those recruiting battles, Bartow began contacting the ncaa, quietly, pointing fingers at UA for recruiting improprieties.

UAB began seeing the erosion of the fanbase - Alabama guy especially began to look less and less favorably at UAB as time passed. I can testify - I was one that used to enjoy attending UAB games, but by the mid 80s had far less inclination to spend my time and money at the BJCC.

The dominoes began to topple towards a further and crippling rift between Tuscaloosa and Birmingham in 1989, albeit in an innocuous fashion, when UAB announced the creation of a club football team. Here is a link to a good history of UAB origins, beginning on page 12.

https://www.uab.edu/cas/history/images/Documents/VHS/Vulcan_Historical_Review_V17_2013.pdf


Note that Pat Dye was in favor, and Bill Curry, Head Coach at Alabama, was not. In fact, I believe there was a belief at auburn, especially within power circles, that the rise of UAB football would only hamper Alabama. As such, no wonder Auburn was supportive - it was largely self-serving.

If you are able, remember the sports climate in the state at that time. Alabama was transitioning, and not very well, to like after Coach Bryant. Auburn was experiencing success, feeling their oats, and had won the battle over being able to host Alabama in Auburn. Alabama had put in the west upper deck to Bryant-Denny Stadium in 1988, and there were plans to further expand with an eye on eventually playing all games in Tuscaloosa. This possibility/eventuality was not lost on even the dim-witted, myopic Birmingham leadership. Eric Ramsey and Gene Jelks were on the horizon, as well as the Antonio Langham mess, and both Alabama and Auburn would experience severe sanctions within a 5 year period. The Wimp Sanderson and Nancy Watts saga was imminent.

It was a very unsettled time for State sports, especially for the University of Alabama.
So, UAB club football arrives in 1989, - and the fast track begins. In 1991, UAB announces they are moving upwards into Division III football, with DR. Jim Hilyer as Head Coach. Due to an NCAA ruling that Universities could not have athletics programs competing at multi-divisional levels, in 1993 UAB was "forced" to move to a Division 1-AA status. In 1994, UAB played Kansas, their first ever game against a D-1 program, and Hilyer resigned after the season, with Watson Brown being named Head Coach.

UAB applies for, and received, clearance in 1995 to move into D-1 football, and began competing at that level in 1996. Then, near the end of that same year, C-USA Commissioner Mike Slive (hmm) announced UAB would be admitted as a football playing member in 1999.

Think about all that for a moment. In the space of six - SIX - years, UAB started a club football squad and transitioned into full Division 1 status. This at a commuter campus, without a solid "UAB First" fanbase to count on, and with no time to create one. This was a shotgun wedding of UAB and D-1 Football, and came about quicker than an Elizabeth Taylor whirlwind romance/marriage.

Now, back to the Bartow factor. Coach Bartow was not idle during all this - he would coach UAB Basketball till 1996, and serve as AD till 2000. He was of course highly involved in the creation and transition of UAB Football. But that was not all, as came out in 1993 in the LA Times, regarding a letter Bartow wrote to David Berst, NCAA enforcement director, back to 1991. The focus in LA was a perceived fear Bartow had of UCLA Super Booster Sam Gilbert, an hombre some thought had "mafia ties" - but this resonated with folks in Alabama...

Bartow used similarly blunt language to present his feelings toward the University of Alabama basketball program in the letter, urging Berst to "take a serious look" at the Crimson Tide."I have had four ex-Alabama players (at UAB)," Bartow wrote. "In each case, they have described rules violations (involving) them and other players there. Not once did an NCAA person investigate them to ask any questions about what went on at Alabama. . . .
"If an investigator would just ask two questions of six or eight former players who have dropped out of that program, I think you would get some interesting answers. . . . I really believe somebody would blow the whistle on them."
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-08-04/sports/sp-20220_1_sam-gilbert

However, Bartow went further, had he not, damage would have been mitigated to a degree. But Bartow committed the cardinal sin where the University of Alabama was concerned - he slandered the name of Coach Bryant...

From The New York Times...

Bartow's letter, written to the N.C.A.A. enforcement director, DAVID BERST, and first reported Tuesday in The Los Angeles Times, said four former Alabama players told him of rules violations after transferring to U.A.B. Bartow also linked former Alabama Coach BEAR BRYANT to numerous rules breaches in college athletics.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/05/s...w-accused-alabama-in-1991-letter.html?mcubz=0

Interesting that we now have both the LA Times and New York Times, involved at least to some degree, in the escalating Tusclaoosa-Birmingham feud. Big City coming to the country, in a way.
:biggrin2:

So Bartow sends this letter in 1991, it gets, for some reason, leaked to an LA Times reporter in 93 who publishes a story about it on August 4th, 1993. The very NEXT DAY Bartow issued an apology...

Gene Bartow, basketball coach and athletic director at the University of Alabama Birmingham, Wednesday apologized for making comments critical of the late Paul (Bear) Bryant, University of Alabama football coach and athletic director from 1957 to '82.Bartow's comments about Bryant were part of a letter to David Berst, NCAA assistant executive director for enforcement, written in November of 1991. Portions of the letter appeared Wednesday in The Times.
Bartow, who followed John Wooden as UCLA basketball coach, wrote in the letter that he believed his life would have been in danger had the NCAA delved too deeply into the activities of the late Sam Gilbert, the Bruin booster who was closely aligned with the program during the Wooden years.
Bartow also urged Berst to investigate the Alabama basketball program and noted that several football coaches whose programs had drawn NCAA sanctions--including Jackie Sherrill, Danny Ford and Charley Pell--were "trained" by Bryant.
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-08-05/sports/sp-20797_1_gene-bartow

A lot of Alabama fans saw the situation as this - Bartow attacked THE MAN, The Legend, Coach Bryant, in his letter to Berst and the NCAA. He also did this years AFTER Coach Bryant's death, and would never have dared confront Bryant himself. Bartow is now in the process of fast-tracking the UAB football venture, with the full support and endorsement of Auburn officials.

Alabama fans were DONE with supporting UAB athletics, in anything, at this point.

Time marches on, UAB wins some football games, loses more, and plays to paltry crowd in a declining venue on Graymont Avenue. The strange union of UAB officials, a few boosters, and City of Birmingham officials (
not much chance of dirty dealings and self-serving decisions here) keeps UAB Football afloat, partly because the City buys some 5000 tickets per year that will count as "attendance" when NCAA crowd requirements are analyzed. But the program bleeds money, cannot develop a dedicated fanbase, especially in a blossoming technological age where entertainment options are increasing by the boatloads.

All the while, UAB folks are constantly whining about a perceived lack of fair treatment from The University of Alabama Board of Trustees. They cannot draw consistently fair crowds to the games - yet espouse the notion that "If we can just have someone build us a new, state of the art, 40,000 or so seat stadium, fans will suddenly stream in." IE, they are BEGGING for investments, with no history to convince anyone with sense that such an investment would be a good idea. As regards the stadium, UAB tried to organize a big time rally, to meet on Campus and bus to Tuscaloosa to demonstrate outside a UA BOT meeting. These "UAB Freedom Riders" were gonna save the Blazer day.

They wanted thousands to ride - they took 2 buses with empty seats.

In 2014, UAB President Ray Watts decided to take a good look at UAB Athletics, and plot the best course of future direction. UAB employed outside resources, including CarrSports Consulting, and came to teh conclusion that it would be in the best interest of UAB to drop football. It was determined that to be "competitive" UAB would have to increase the football budget by 49 million, and that money would be better spent elsewhere.

“In order to invest at least another $49 million, UAB would have to redirect funds away from other critical areas of importance, like education, research, patient care and student services, which are core to UAB’s mission, and our priority athletic programs would suffer competitively.” ― President Ray L. Watts

Summary


  • As part of UAB’s campus-wide strategic planning process, President Ray L. Watts announced results from the Athletic Department’s review designed to identify areas of excellence and set priorities for future investment and growth. Results include:
        • The university’s priority athletic programs will be basketball, baseball, softball, soccer, golf, tennis, volleyball, cross country, and track and field.
        • The final seasons for UAB football, bowling and rifle will take place in the 2014-2015 academic year.
  • By implementing this plan, UAB will be better-positioned to reinvest in its priority athletic programs where UAB can be sustainably competitive on a conference and even national level.
  • UAB’s Athletics budget will not be cut. Funds dedicated to discontinued programs will be redirected to more fully support UAB’s priority sports and build those into championship programs.
  • The rapidly evolving NCAA landscape and soaring operating costs place extreme pressure and a growing financial burden on athletic programs like UAB’s. Costs are continuously spiraling upward, driven by cost-of-attendance payments to players, meals, equipment, facilities, coaches, travel and more.
  • The Athletic Department engaged knowledgeable outside experts and advisers from CarrSports Consulting, a leader in program advancement in intercollegiate athletics, to validate analysis and inform planning.
  • Immediate priorities for UAB are providing assistance to impacted student-athletes and coaches, maintaining UAB’s NCAA Division I status, and remaining in Conference USA.
        • UAB will honor players’ scholarships and coaches’ contracts.
  • Per NCAA bylaws, players who transfer from a discontinued program can play immediately at another school without sitting out a year or losing eligibility.
  • Others, including the Marching Blazers band, Golden Girls and cheerleaders, will have schedules disrupted by this decision. UAB leadership will work to make the transition as easy as possible and help those affected make the best decisions for their future. Scholarships of current members will be honored.
https://www.uab.edu/athleticsplan/message/announcement-dec-2014

A look at UAB budgets illuminates a program that cannot pay for itself. From an al.com 2014 article on the budget...

Contention: UAB loses buckets full of money on sports every year.
Verdict: True. UAB athletics was subsidized by about $18 million last year, according to the USA Today Sports college athletics financial database. Subsidies, which often obscure the bottom-line at schools across the country, include student fees and state or school contributions.
http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/12/how_broke_is_uabs_athletics_de.html

Contention: UAB's football program is tanking on the ledger if not on the field.
Verdict: Debatable. The amount of subsidies from school fees and state funds did more than double at UAB from 2005 to 2013, rising from $9 million to $18 million. However the amount of revenue generated from ticket sales was virtually unchanged in that time, at a little more than $1.1 million a year. Licensing revenues were about $3.4 million in 2005, and $4 million last year.
Now, there are many programs like UAB around the country, who need subsidy cash. The UAB leadership made a wise and prudent decision to drop Football, which others should also consider. But thanks to a bunch of bleeding hearts and a story that the national media turned into an "injustice" for a brief minute, UAB caved in and decided to bring the money pit of UAB football back to life. The whiners, "outraged" media types et al have LONG ago moved on to other issues to protest.

But we in Alabama are still here, forced to financially prop up a Potemkin Village of a program.

Meanwhile, what about the other athletic and academic programs that WERE axed to create the football farse? And the Programs that now will NOT benefit from funds that would have been diverted their way after euthanizing the farse? All for the sake of the pipe dream?

As an Alabama guy who once, long ago, also supported UAB - To Hell with UAB Athletics :BigA::BigA::BigA:
 
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