UAB attendance back to normal

If I understand the argument Shrack is making I find that UAB may be losing money on one hand but they are actually making money on the other. Birmingham is losing money buying all those tickets but that is actually making money for B'ham.

So, Birmingham needs to fund a Pro Team. Professional Football in Birmingham has lost money before so it would actually make B'ham money. Right?

Just think of all the Scholarships the city of Birmingham could give UAB with those Pro team loses.

I don't need another lawnmower but they were on sale, so I bought five new ones. Look at all the money I saved! This is UAB math, I guess.

Kinda nice hearing the other perspective on the UAB football program. I have really only heard views from our long time posters all of whom seem to be dead set against UAB having a team due to waste.

Mystical said:

Kinda nice hearing the other perspective on the UAB football program. I have really only heard views from our long time posters all of whom seem to be dead set against UAB having a team due to waste.

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You do get that the heart of Shrack's argument was that other programs waste money to so it should be ok, don't you?

PitMaster said:

In my lifetime, Birmingham has been overtaken by...

Atlanta
Nashville
Charlotte
Memphis
Jacksonville

yet these uab foolks try to posture as though uab football will change the local world

Truth is - if you scrape down to the essence - the most vocal and informed uab supporters are doing so to line their own coffer

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Yup..Just out of curiosity..What stopped Birmingham from growing into a major sports city like those cities you listed..Was it the decline of the coal industry that built Birmingham or was it politics or there lack of..

KrAzY3 said:

You do get that the heart of Shrack's argument was that other programs waste money to so it should be ok, don't you?

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He also said if you are against UAB, you should be against all those other programs as well. The thing is, all those other programs aren't part of the UA system, and what they do isn't our problem.

Yes, it took over 10 years to get a one time capital fund of 30 million. These companies and fans will not donate year after year unless they see a benefit from UAB football. Wins are what brings in fans. No one wants to go see UAB get beat by Louisville, FSU, or Clemson by 60 or 70 points. The so called ticket sales are a farce because many of the actual butts in the seats didn't buy a ticket. There is no value in an individual buying tickets to see an average at best UAB team. As far as the argument that students attend UAB because of the sports program, the fact is almost no one attends UAB because of their sports programs. Prospective students attend because it is either closer and cheaper or they are going to med school. UAB is and always will be a commuter campus.

Lets look at it from an athletic point of view. UAB is a borderline 6-6 team on a good year. Lets say Clark has a super year and ends up 8-4, how long before he bolts for more money? I have no problem with UAB having a football program at the FCS level where they have a chance to possible win maybe 10 games, but at the FBS level, UAB is nothing more than fodder for upper level programs with money. The UA trustees mistake is that UAB should have made to drop down to the FCS level where they have a chance to win. You build a new program in incremental steps. Win at the FCS level, develop a loyal paying fan base, and then possibly move up, but the UAB folks think that playing at the same level as Alabama and Auburn somehow makes them equals. I hate to tell you this, but athletically UAB will never be their equals.

Mystical said:

Kinda nice hearing the other perspective on the UAB football program. I have really only heard views from our long time posters all of whom seem to be dead set against UAB having a team due to waste.

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Candidly, I couldn't care less. But as an outside observer, the desire for UAB to have an FBS football program seems irrational to me.

The UAB football business plan:

Tide1986 said:

Candidly, I couldn't care less. But as an outside observer, the desire for UAB to have an FBS football program seems irrational to me.

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That is the only part of this discussion that still has me puzzled. It seems that most here use the $$$ angle as their opposition to UAB's football team, but those same folks would have no problem with UAB fielding an FCS team. The problem - it would cost UAB just as much to field an FCS team as they currently spend fielding an FBS team. So (based on the posts in this thread) it does not really appear to be about the $$$. It appears to be about old wounds and politics.

B1GTide said:

That is the only part of this discussion that still has me puzzled. It seems that most here use the $$$ angle as their opposition to UAB's football team, but those same folks would have no problem with UAB fielding an FCS team. The problem - it would cost UAB just as much to field an FCS team as they currently spend fielding an FBS team. So (based on the posts in this thread) it does not really appear to be about the $$$. It appears to be about old wounds and politics.

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You are conflating this a bit. First, I didn't see anyone say they wouldn't mind them wastefully operating an FCS program! I didn't see anyone say I don't mind them having an FCS program and building a 70-170 (based on different proposals) million dollar stadium! That's the thing that the apologists dance around, what Shrack danced around. No one is showing up to watch these games and the proposal is to sink tens of millions more into a stadium. This was one of the reasons that they shut UAB down, because the money isn't there and the future costs of the stadium are not manageable. One thing going down to the FCS would do is allow Shrack to still have his precious football team, and they could just go play in a smaller venue and not waste 100 million bucks. As cool as Shrack is, what he wants isn't worth 70 million+ to me, sorry.

What people here are actually implying when they talk about FCS, is that if UAB must have a program they can and should do it in a fiscally responsible way. It is an entirely reasonable thing to suggest that an athletic program try to operate more within their means. Personally I don't suggest they go to the FCS, I suggest they drop their program, which they did. But first and foremost I think we'd all suggest they stop trying to be something they are incapable of being. They're like someone who makes 20K a year driving around in a brand new Mercedes. That's just stupid, and it doesn't make them rich, it makes them morons for doing it (and the taxpayers morons if they are paying for it).

No. My "beef" with it is the damned "entitlement" mentality of it all. And I have TWO degrees from the place. The vast majority of those attending UAB are NOT traditional students. Most like myself are the ones working a full time job and completing undergraduate or post graduate studies. Most, like myself, couldn't give a rat's rear end about football at UAB.

Yet suddenly this plan evolves to bring in football and go FBS in five years. And the program flounders for years. And all the ones that "had to have it" are nowhere to be found when the program needs them. Just like the kids with the puppy, they WANT the puppy, they NEED the puppy. But low and behold in a short period of time, the kids (just like the UAB folks that had to have football) forget about the puppy and it becomes Mom & Dad's job (the taxpayers) to take care of it.

And only when the dog (football) is about to be euthanized do the entitled few children at UAB begin to scream and cry about how much they love and need their dog. Funny, if you really cared about the dog in the first place, the thought of "putting him down" would have never entered the picture.

I've seen this movie time and time again. When the "newness" of having the puppy back wears off, the attendance will be back to 10-15k with tickets being given away with a car wash or "buy one and 4 get in for free".

And all because a few "were entitled to it".

B1GTide said:

That is the only part of this discussion that still has me puzzled. It seems that most here use the $$$ angle as their opposition to UAB's football team, but those same folks would have no problem with UAB fielding an FCS team. The problem - it would cost UAB just as much to field an FCS team as they currently spend fielding an FBS team. So (based on the posts in this thread) it does not really appear to be about the $$$. It appears to be about old wounds and politics.

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It varies based on whom you're reading. Personally, I'm rather ambivalent and occasionally look upon UAB football with amusement.

crimsonaudio said:

On average, FCS costs millions less to operate, zero question. The average FCS head coach scary is under $300k, and the entire staff makes far less than their FBS counterparts. FCS also allows 25% fewer scholarships (63 vs 85) than their FBS counterparts. Ignoring all the extra perks a player gets from FBS programs (such as top-notch medical care), the scholarship difference alone amounts to over a million dollars.

I'm not one harping on the costs for UAB to play football, just wanted to point that out. FCS football costs considerably less to operate.

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Is UAB spending Alabama money, or JSU money, across the board? How do their costs compare to JSU? I get your point at a high level, but we are talking about a particular school - UAB. They just went bankrupt and had to shut down their football program. Did they really jump back in with a high spend model?

KrAzY3 said:

You are conflating this a bit. First, I didn't see anyone say they wouldn't mind them wastefully operating an FCS program!

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Then you didn't read many posts in the thread.

KrAzY3 said:

Personally I don't suggest they go to the FCS, I suggest they drop their program,

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Which is why I can't take your posts in the thread seriously. I have no bias of any kind here, but you clearly do.

B1GTide said:

Which is why I can't take your posts in the thread seriously. I have no bias of any kind here, but you clearly do.

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Yes, I am clearly biased against wasting money. I'm glad you are above such things, how noble of you to be indifferent to money being taken out of my pocket. Now can you direct me to the posts in this thread you seem to have seen, but I didn't, that said UAB can waste all the money they want as long as they're in the FCS? I must have missed them.

KrAzY3 said:

Yes, I am clearly biased against wasting money. I'm glad you are above such things, how noble of you to be indifferent to money being taken out of my pocket. Now can you direct me to the posts in this thread you seem to have seen, but I didn't, that said UAB can waste all the money they want as long as they're in the FCS? I must have missed them.

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If this is really all about money, where are your rants about every other program in the state, because they are all costing you, the taxpayer, money. Only Alabama and Auburn should be allowed to field a football program under your "rules".

B1GTide said:

If this is really all about money, where are your rants about every other program in the state, because they are all costing you, the taxpayer, money. Only Alabama and Auburn should be allowed to field a football program under your "rules".

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First, the look over there response isn't a good one. The argument here is primarily about UAB and the defenses of UAB's practices should stand on their own. If the best people can muster is others are doing it to, then that shows you how little there is to actually support UAB having a program.

Secondly, in this very thread I made it clear I'm enrolled at South Alabama and I ranted about their wasteful program to. I've seen other posters here acknowledge my dislike for South Alabama's wasteful football program, I've seen other posters here acknowledge my disdain for the football welfare programs not meeting basic attendance requirements. I've been going on about it for years, so sorry that you missed it, but I did indeed hold this position for a long time and not just in regard to UAB. For the record, I want the NCAA to enforce their attendance requirements, I want to see the FBS to drop back to around 100 prorgrams, and I do not want my state sinking 150+ million into stadiums for football programs no one cares about! It's bad enough I have to help fund South Alabama's program already, I darn sure don't want to pay more!

Now, not every program is in as bad a shape, but we're not a rich state. We have no business with this many FBS programs siphoning off what little money we do have. If I had to choose between just Alabama and Auburn, or what we have now, the choice is easy.

KrAzY3 said:

Now, not every program is in as bad a shape, but we're not a rich state. We have no business with this many FBS programs siphoning off what little money we do have. If I had to choose between just Alabama and Auburn, or what we have now, the choice is easy.

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This part I get. I could argue that college should be free for everyone, but few would agree, and it could only happen if colleges stopped wasting money on things like this. I am just surprised at the level of vitriol from you about this. I couldn't care less about UAB (thought their med school has a great reputation).