Game Thread: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD: Bama vs. Colorado St...

CraigD said:

Someone made a point about the receiver route trees not being "friendly" to the passing game -- the routes are either very short or very long - nothing intermediate. This may be a better analysis of what I am about to post that I have noticed all season: Either our receivers are not getting open or Jalen just doesn't see them. I tend to suspect it's the latter. I know there was a point in the Colorado State game where there were two pass plays in a row called, and Jalen threw the ball away on one and scrambled on the next. He had adequate time (which I acknowledge hasn't always been the case this season), so what I am to conclude is that Ridley, Foster, Jeudy, and company can't get open -- against Colorado State (!), or Jalen just isn't good at finding open receivers. I really can't believe it's that our receivers aren't getting open (unless the poster I alluded at the beginning is spot on with his comments about bad route trees).

So I conclude that JH has work to do to improve in finding open receivers. If that is the case (and I think it is), then Jalen's efficiency numbers are a bit skewed. They would tell the story only of passes attempted. Where I believe our passing game is suffering the most right now is in passes not attempted. They don't show up in any statistics I am aware of, but I believe we have receivers open on many plays where no pass is ultimately attempted. This is the one area in which I hope to see Jalen improve the most.

Either that or we need a new WR coach.

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Great post. I think you are right on target.

JaxTider said:

This is true. And this is why Jalen only actually throws the ball 1/3 to 1/4 of the times he drops back to throw.

As the commentators said last night ( and I thought they actually provided good insight into this issue), he's not really going through a progression. He's looking for his primary, and then running. But, as they said, he's such s good runner, the coached are not pushing the progression because the scramble is or best second option at this point... given his limitations in scanning the field.

This is a two edged sword. It usually. works well. But in cases where great defenses can spy and contain Jalen, we're in for a long night.

Jalen really is improving. But this is the issue that keeps the coaches up all night.

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Correct and that's why it doesn't make sense calling qb runs against CS. The only way he can learn to get to that 2nd or 3rd read is to stand in there and do it in a game we are going to win regardless.

When we meet that team that takes his running away (or slows it down) we will be sweating bullets.

Bamabuzzard said:

Or the staff has already made the decision to move on from this and develop the offense in other ways. Last season there were games where it was obvious the gameplan was to work on Jalen's passing. It was either the Miss St game or the aTm game, can't remember. But I do remember the playcalling was obviously geared toward working on Jalen's passing. I can't say we've done that in the last two games where it would have been the perfect opportunity to do so. So it leads me to believe that the staff has made a decision to stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and find other areas to get the job done. This is just my opinion so obviously I could be wrong. I'm just going by observation. Our passing game is primary a horizontal passing game outside the numbers. Though I see receivers running routes across the middle of the field the ball rarely gets thrown there.

My concern is when we play against defenses that will take the swing passes, wr bubble screens and qb runs away, can we "dribble with our left hand"? If I had to answer that question today, after three games, the answer is "no". But there's still plenty of games to get better and I think they will. But the moment of truth will be in the second half stretch and any post season game we play in.

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You may be right about the square peg/round hole analogy. But, if that's true, why in the world are we not developing Tua when he get his limited reps. Seems like the same kind of play calling. I know on one of his series it started with a screen pass, next play was a run that gained very little, and on 3rd down it was another screen pass.

So it makes me think it's more to do with Daboll's play calling at this point.

I think our defense will get fixed and be good enough to win a NC. But I don't see how we can win it all without play calling that targets the short to midrange passing that forces teams to defend the whole field. At some point, we'll have 3rd and 9 to move the chains and right now we are just pitiful in this portion of the game.

Bamabuzzard said:

Or the staff has already made the decision to move on from this and develop the offense in other ways. Last season there were games where it was obvious the gameplan was to work on Jalen's passing. It was either the Miss St game or the aTm game, can't remember. But I do remember the playcalling was obviously geared toward working on Jalen's passing. I can't say we've done that in the last two games where it would have been the perfect opportunity to do so. So it leads me to believe that the staff has made a decision to stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and find other areas to get the job done. This is just my opinion so obviously I could be wrong. I'm just going by observation. Our passing game is primary a horizontal passing game outside the numbers. Though I see receivers running routes across the middle of the field the ball rarely gets thrown there.

My concern is when we play against defenses that will take the swing passes, wr bubble screens and qb runs away, can we "dribble with our left hand"? If I had to answer that question today, after three games, the answer is "no". But there's still plenty of games to get better and I think they will. But the moment of truth will be in the second half stretch and any post season game we play in.

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Good observation, buzz. CNS wanted and got one of the highest rated dual threat QBs in the class of 2016. He went after Hurts and Tua because he wanted to get in on the recent success of dual threat QBs in college football. Dual threat is exactly what it says, not dual threat in high school and then turn them into Tom Brady once they are on campus. This is the game Hurts has played his entire life and to force him into being a pure pocket passer is not going to end well for him or our team. Yes, he does need to improve his passing game and be more patient in reading the field, but to completely take away his running game is not something that will get us to Atlanta. If he gets injured running then we are going to be in a lot of trouble, but you can't have it both ways.

I've sort of shifted my thinking this week away from Hurts. It is what it is with Hurts. He's improving. He's terribly talented. But our style of play on offense will leave us vulnerable down the road. I think it is critical that our offensive line develop and we become more dominant in the run game. We can't just rely on Jalens legs.

But there is something that maybe under the radar given all the attention on Jalen and the OL and all our injuries at LB.

Is this Dline suffering from a lack of elite talent relative to past teams. I know we've missed on several recruiting targets in the last couple of years. And Hand, while serviceable, has not become the dominant player we would have thought. Aside from Payne, do we have a talent issue on the D line?

Could someone assess our overall talent level in the D line of far a who we've recruited and what the development is looking like? Athletically, this just doesn't look like the Bama Fronts we have grown accustomed to.

BamaMoon said:

You may be right about the square peg/round hole analogy. But, if that's true, why in the world are we not developing Tua when he get his limited reps. Seems like the same kind of play calling. I know on one of his series it started with a screen pass, next play was a run that gained very little, and on 3rd down it was another screen pass.

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My thoughts exactly. I was hopeful they would drop Tua back and give him some real experience in the passing game. But weird playcalling and the defense constantly giving up chunks of yards made this a lost weekend as far as our backup QB's development.

Bamabuzzard said:

Or the staff has already made the decision to move on from this and develop the offense in other ways. Last season there were games where it was obvious the gameplan was to work on Jalen's passing. It was either the Miss St game or the aTm game, can't remember. But I do remember the playcalling was obviously geared toward working on Jalen's passing. I can't say we've done that in the last two games where it would have been the perfect opportunity to do so. So it leads me to believe that the staff has made a decision to stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and find other areas to get the job done. This is just my opinion so obviously I could be wrong. I'm just going by observation. Our passing game is primary a horizontal passing game outside the numbers. Though I see receivers running routes across the middle of the field the ball rarely gets thrown there.

My concern is when we play against defenses that will take the swing passes, wr bubble screens and qb runs away, can we "dribble with our left hand"? If I had to answer that question today, after three games, the answer is "no". But there's still plenty of games to get better and I think they will. But the moment of truth will be in the second half stretch and any post season game we play in.

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I think this is right. My observation is that Jalen is good at throwing bullets at a visually acquired target but not so good at leading to a spot. He seems to throw right at the receiver, Like a pitcher hits the mitt. He can throw into the boundary to an extent, but he excels when the receiver stops, like Robert Foster on the TD. He hit Ridley on a seam that was mostly vertical, again more or less straight at the target. If this is correct, then it might explain the limited and mostly vertical passing routes with few crosses and slants over the middle. I tend to agree with you, that the offense is tailored to this now.

JaxTider said:

I've sort of shifted my thinking this week away from Hurts. It is what it is with Hurts. He's improving. He's terribly talented. But our style of play on offense will leave us vulnerable down the road. I think it is critical that our offensive line develop and we become more dominant in the run game. We can't just rely on Jalens legs.

But there is something that maybe under the radar given all the attention on Jalen and the OL and all our injuries at LB.

Is this Dline suffering from a lack of elite talent relative to past teams. I know we've missed on several recruiting targets in the last couple of years. And Hand, while serviceable, has not become the dominant player we would have thought. Aside from Payne, do we have a talent issue on the D line?

Could someone assess our overall talent level in the D line of far a who we've recruited and what the development is looking like? Athletically, this just doesn't look like the Bama Fronts we have grown accustomed to.

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I don't know what to think about Hand. When he's in the game, I hardly even notice and he's just kind of "there". He's been here long enough, if the light hasn't come on yet, it probably never will. Serviceable is a good word. He doesn't really ever do anything wrong, but doesn't stand out either.

Last year someone posted a video of an NFL scout going through a few plays and analyzing the play of each of our DL. When he got to Hand, he was like "I don't know what's going on with him, but he has a terribly slow start [compared to Allen, et al]"... and that's about all that was said about him. So I think he has talent but is not near as reactive as some of our past elite D linemen.

KrAzY3 said:

This was the first time he made a 40 yard kick in his college career. And, he did it twice. I know Ole Miss didn't give him a scholarship, I don't think Alabama did either. So, I have very real, legitimate concerns when I see him out there. Alabama wouldn't have given a scholarship to another place kicker if Andy was plan A.

Having said that, he looked fantastic today. May be he turned a corner in practice (that lead to him earning the job) and it's starting to show on the field. I sure hope so. Also, JK didn't look bad on that long kick. So yeah it was nice to see the kicking game look like a weapon, if it stays that way it would be great. I'd love to be completely wrong about his ceiling as a kicker.

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IIRC, ole miss did offer him a scholarship out of Trinity. He was just a greyshirt.

I was somewhat surprised we didn't offer him. He set the state high school record for most field goals made.

DzynKingRTR said:

I just realized we have not had a turnover this year. 3 games in and no fumbles or interceptions is pretty darn good.

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Welp. We'll have a few this week now.

crimsonaudio said:

Roll Tide! Could have covered the spread but in typical Saban fashion, he used the big lead to let the younger players gain experience.

RTR!

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Guy in the upper deck shouted "Come on, boys! These points cost money!" as Colorado State scored their second touchdown.

Wanted to look over and yell "that's your own fault for betting on this game."

I sat in the end zone, so I was able to get an "All-22" like view. From what I saw, the play calling looked good. Was better than what we've seen the previous two weeks. Saw some plays that could be used for other plays down the road.

Someone asked about the WRs getting consistent separation from the DBs. As Jalen scrambles, they didn't always take off toward the end zone or back to him to get open.


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uafan4life said:

Now you know why I call them the Eeyore Corps.

I think we should have an official Eeyore Corps badge and - in addition to the like, dislike, and thank buttons - a "pessimistic" button we could use to mark overly pessimistic posts. Then, the 20 or so most pessimistic posters would "earn" themselves an Eeyore Corps badge that shows up next to their username whenever they post.

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Sorry, y'all. I'm several pages behind in reading, but this is good stuff right here. ^^^ LOL

I feel like some are being willingly ignorant of our defensive issues. Going into the season everyone in the know was saying something to the effect, "this defense will depend on the LB corp to generate pass rush there are no Jonathan Allen types likely to emerge from this group." Then our two best prospects to be key pass rushers went down in the first game and the result has been a unit that looks more like a '13 or '14 D. The run fits should improve when Jennings and Evans come back but I don't expect the down four pass rush to improve this season unless the rumors that Miller could be back by December are true.

And the issue doesn't appear to be upcoming on our schedule through December...the issue is when we face an elite offense in the playoffs where I fully expect to get shredded due to an insufficient down four pressure against teams that spread us out and pass it around. Offense is going to have to be very efficient this year if they hope to reach the ultimate goal.

Bamabuzzard said:

Or the staff has already made the decision to move on from this and develop the offense in other ways. Last season there were games where it was obvious the gameplan was to work on Jalen's passing. It was either the Miss St game or the aTm game, can't remember. But I do remember the playcalling was obviously geared toward working on Jalen's passing. I can't say we've done that in the last two games where it would have been the perfect opportunity to do so. So it leads me to believe that the staff has made a decision to stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and find other areas to get the job done. This is just my opinion so obviously I could be wrong. I'm just going by observation.

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I'm not sure if it is a conscious choice, so much as the play caller situation leading them down that path. In the Miss St. game, Hurts did light them up through the air. Yes, Miss. State was dreadful against the pass, but the point is it worked. He threw for almost 350 yards and 4 TDs. This demonstrated the fact that he could sit back there and make the throws. There were other good teams he could have lit up in similar fashion to, like Oklahoma.

The problem of course was he wasn't facing Oklahoma. He finished the season facing the #2 passing defense, then #15 passing defense, and the #14 passing defense. May be, he could have weathered the storm better, but from the Florida game on Kiffin was out to lunch. So he ends up dealing with a stacked deck. He has to face Washington with his OC calling plays they didn't practice, and then Clemson with an OC who was having some issues calling plays. I'd surmise just about any quarterback would have struggled under those circumstances. It is hard to imagine this was a plan so much as an attempt to avert disaster.

I expressed concern prior to Hurts being named starter, that playing a true freshman can hurt their development. I said it could reinforce bad habits. Instead of practicing for a year and getting better as a quarterback, they're out there doing all they can to win. It is a different sort of development. Then, Alabama has to scramble to find an OC, and they don't get one with a great track record or meaningful college experience. Once again, I'm not sure I see a master plan. In fact, what I see from the offensive play calling seems to be born of short term goals. I don't even see a master plan for the game unfold. I don't see Alabama dominate the clock, wear down the defense, or do a whole lot to set up particular plays. Now, that might be Daboll not showing his hand, or acclimating, but I'm more inclined to say there's less of a plan than one might assume. I think the most purposeful the Alabama offense has looked all year was that last series against Colorado St. Clearly Saban sent them out there on a mission and they executed.

Anyway, if they really have abandoned Hurts development, that's a shame and in my opinion was unnecessary. It also begs the question of what they're doing with Tua, since the play calling doesn't seem all that inspired with him either...

RTR91 said:

Guy in the upper deck shouted "Come on, boys! These points cost money!" as Colorado State scored their second touchdown.

Wanted to look over and yell "that's your own fault for betting on this game."

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No kidding, betting on kids playing football as a part-time job...Not Smart.

Piggybacking on rgw's point, we thought T. Lewis could mostly fill the Tim Williams role [and i'm convinced he could have] and Jennings would fill the Ryan Anderson role [and think he will soon]. When Jennings rounds back into form we will still be missing the feared pass rusher who is also more than competent playing the run. Not having Miller's speed and experience to help out is a larger loss than we first thought.

Thank goodness Payne is still there.

There is no one close to replacing J Allen.

rgw said:

No kidding, betting on kids playing football as a part-time job...Not Smart.

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Not smart and to add insult to injury the guys acts as if the kids are doing something to him instead of taking responsibility for his own stupidity. Sorry, but that attitude irritates me to no end - especially lately. But back to football...

It seems to me we aren't getting consistent "push" on the OL or the DL. We are having trouble controlling the LOS. On offense there seem to be a lot of missed assignments. On defense it seems to be more of our strategy based on the talent we have. The DL does seem to be getting their hands up to bat the ball down.

Everyone (hyperbole) wants to jump the QB or the RB when things break down (sometimes accurately TBF) but the line has to create space. That's where it all starts.

To be in Atlanta this year we need to improve on both lines in both technique and physical dominance/attitude. The big uglies need to get a mean streak.

and I don't want to make it seem like I think this team is a jalopy that is gonna fall apart before the end of the regular season. I truly don't know - right now at least - if there is a team in the SEC that can beat us without some monumental breakdowns. I'm thinking about where things can go in terms of the ultimate goals. I just don't think this is a title-quality defense nor is it likely to become one because there are hard-and-fast time limits on development because this isn't a full-time job.


If college football was college football minus the little trifle that these kids are going to school and football is just a part-time job...well I'd expect all 85 kids being ready to play at a decent level by the time the season starts. The reality is that we have the same practice limits as Vandy, so Alabama and Vandy end up with about the same number of kids ready to play in a year. We're probably playing some kids who just aren't developed enough to be on the field and play at a high level.