Game Thread: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD: Bama vs. Colorado St...

tusks_n_raider said:

I made a long post late last night about our passing scheme that I decided to re-edit to remove, because I thought everyone would still be overly optimistic this morning and not ready to accept it. It seems I should have left it up after all and I'll see if I can replicate my points.

It would not matter if our QB was Jalen, Tua, Mac or anyone else in the country right now....we would see the same under utilization of our WR talent.

We are making the QB's role more difficult than it needs to because our playbooks route tree design is clashing with the formation set/style of Offense.

What I mean is we are giving the appearance of running a RPO based attack.... but for 3 out of 4 WR's on any given pass call we are running 75% long developing routes and 25% LOS short 'check downs' as if we are playing Pro-Style Play-Action ball. It's all kinds of messed up and clashing.

It's mostly deep shot Corner routes from the hashes to sideline or the occasional Deep post or Fly supplemented by RB check downs. If we purposely run a short pass play it's swing passes to RB's or WR screens garbled up all around the LOS.

So Jalen is either having a 1st read short LOS pass OR he's having to wait for Routes to develop and if it's tight coverage he either checks down or tries to buy time before running or throwing the ball away.

The WR's aren't seemingly 'coming back' to assist because they are still reaching the apex of routes to hit their cut while Jalen has already taken off/rolled out and by time they make their break and look for the ball and see he needs help....time has run out with defenders closing in and as they then make an effort to 'come back' the ball is in the stands or Jalen has run or stepped out to avoid a loss.

It's all kinds of dysfunctional because of the play designs. We should be running quick hitter mid-routes that are fast reads like Slants, Digs, Curls, and Bang-8 Skinny Posts.

The best two explosive plays last night showed this. The pass to Ridley was a Bang-8 and it was a PERFECT pass by Jalen between two defenders that Ridley housed. The other was a quick Dig-In/mini-Curl to Foster which again was a PERFECT pass that let Foster catch it in stride and haul tail with. We need 2-3 of those routes on most plays with 1 Deep route 'decoy' (that maybe becomes a legit open play) for Safeties and 1 underneath check-down if the coverage is tight/ no one open.

The key is keeping control of what the opposing Safeties and LB's are doing in coverage. You don't want a LB sitting underneath to step in front of a Slant or Post nor do you want a roaming Safety or Dime/Nickel Back in Zone to get underneath a Dig-in. So how do you do that?

Run the ball off the RPO to force the LB's to either come towards the LOS or stay in a Frozen state guessing....or ideally blitz. The Slant is unstoppable.....a CB can not defend it without taking a gamble and jumping the route. It's an easy throw and catch for 5-10 yards if they play off the LOS and cover well and tackle. You keep them from jumping routes w/ Fly's and Double Moves. If it's a Slant from the Slot with a Frozen or blitzing LB it's how ever much YAC the WR can run for before a Safety/Nickel/Dime/LB can tackle them if at all.

The Bang-8 skinny post is even more lethal. If's it's Man coverage with the Safety playing deep and the WR is not doubled it's 8-15 yards minimum. If the Safety is forced to assist Run Defense because of the RPO handoffs are getting 5+ yards that 8-15 transforms into 20-30 yards chunks or more. If the Safety Blitzes it's TD city.

Look around the country at teams like Clemson, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Penn St, and tOSU. Kelly Bryant, Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph, Trace McSorely and JT Barrett are all running this type of Offense. The 1st 4 are excelling because they all have above average arm strength and quick releases with favorable mid-range WR routes to hit.

Their reads are being made easier because they also effectively establish their RB's as threats and have fast WR's that make short catches that become long runs afterwards. The exception is tOSU because Barrett has a slow release and is just not very accurate as a passer but the scheme still favors him IF he can make the throws.

Jalen has a release and arm strength at least on par with Bryant, Rudolph, and McSorley. He's waaaaay better than Barrett. Baker Mayfield has the quickest release of them all. But my point is our personnel at RB and WR is as good if not better than all those teams right now. We could easily have the same type of potent/near unstoppable passing attack off the RPO because of balance created from the runs and the QB friendly quick-short bang-bang routes.

We are trying to run the RPO but with long developing Pro-Style Play Action Routes most of the time and it's just not even remotely supposed to work like that. It's dumbfounding.

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TIDE-HSV said:

Did you really read what I wrote or do you simply not believe me? When he was found, in the wee hours, he was not coherent. During the game, he wasn't in any shape to call a taxi, much less call a critical game and he called in gibberish. How can you "closely manage" that? The fact is that the man has a huge problem, which Saban tried for years to "closely manage." When the "best offensive mind" is trying to maintain consciousness through the fog of the night before, then he's a liability on the sideline which Saban was forced to remove...

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JDCrimson said:

Since you went there I will go ahead with my post that I held off on. I don't think we have coaches or analysts on the staff that their pedigree is coaching spread and RPO concepts. Kiffin even wasn't a stalwart in this area. His passing schemes were also sideline based and deeper routes.

Coach had to move in this direction generally because he had to field a defense that could defend it but knew he wanted to maintain some version of prostyle for recruiting purposes and ball control running.

That being said, I don't think there is a real commitment to playing full out spread offense. But also think they are having trouble finding a middle ground. Coach believes the Pats offense is the middle ground. However if you have read anything about the Pats offense you would know that is really flexible in its calls. In previous years I think we have ran a different version of spread elements.

What I am trying to say is I think there is a larger offensive transformation in the works that includes terminology and play calls. The players have the look of thinking and not playing fast. I think this is why we are seeing protection breakdowns, etc. I'm not sure how much better it will get over the course of the season from play calling and flow standpoint but I do think the OL will play progressively better which should open things up a bit.

The defense is a whole other issue...

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TIDE-HSV said:

Yes, there was immanent mutiny among the troops...

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JDCrimson said:

The players have the look of thinking and not playing fast.

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RTR91 said:

Here's a video of Saban explaining Calvin's TD.

https://www.facebook.com/AlabamaAthletics/videos/10155554339917209/


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tusks_n_raider said:

LOL!!! That was awesome. CNS perfectly described it and what I was trying to explain should be the 'meat and potatoes' of our passes.

We had 2 Slant routes on the right side up top but the DB's are in 'Quarters' which is an Under 'Zone' that can flexibly create double teams on WR's with LB support under inside routes like slants.

Down bottom Ridley is technically running a 'Bang 8 Skinny post' (8-15 yard cut) which IS basically a deeper version of a Slant (5 yard cut) and shorter than a Deep Post (15-20 yard cut) against 'Quarters' as well.

When Jalen takes the snap he has already diagnosed the D's coverage....at the potential handoff to Bo the LB's bite and crash down so Jalen then has to choose 'pass'. but which one??

The Slot slant with Sims is dicey because the DB is up close and Sims doesn't have good inside leverage....

Foster has more space and his cut does have inside leverage and is a nice completion if thrown on his cut but the DB's will minimize damage on it with semi-prevent as long as they tackle well.....but...

Down Bottom Jalen sees the Safety read run and bite hard on it just like the LB's did and the Corner is semi-prevent as well so Ridley easily gets inside leverage and Jalen knows that will get maximum yardage and he throws a dart and Ridley does the rest.

So in about 2.5-3 seconds Jalen processes 4 options.....He's watching the LB's, looks at the 2 Top Slants, and with peripheral vision sees that Safety running up in run support and make the best/correct decision to hit the Skinny Post (Slant).

Don't tell me he can't go through progressions and make fast decisions or make these throws. Jalen is READY. We can eat teams up on plays like these. My main question is why aren't we committing to it to get really proficient with execution?

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JaxTider said:

Well what's your answer then? Seems like your implying incompetence.

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tusks_n_raider said:

LOL!!! That was awesome. CNS perfectly described it and what I was trying to explain should be the 'meat and potatoes' of our passes.

We had 2 Slant routes on the right side up top but the DB's are in 'Quarters' which is an Under 'Zone' that can flexibly create double teams on WR's with LB support under inside routes like slants.

Down bottom Ridley is technically running a 'Bang 8 Skinny post' (8-15 yard cut) which IS basically a deeper version of a Slant (5 yard cut) and shorter than a Deep Post (15-20 yard cut) against 'Quarters' as well.

When Jalen takes the snap he has already diagnosed the D's coverage....at the potential handoff to Bo the LB's bite and crash down so Jalen then has to choose 'pass'. but which one??

The Slot slant with Sims is dicey because the DB is up close and Sims doesn't have good inside leverage....

Foster has more space and his cut does have inside leverage and is a nice completion if thrown on his cut but the DB's will minimize damage on it with semi-prevent as long as they tackle well.....but...

Down Bottom Jalen sees the Safety read run and bite hard on it just like the LB's did and the Corner is semi-prevent as well so Ridley easily gets inside leverage and Jalen knows that will get maximum yardage and he throws a dart and Ridley does the rest.

So in about 2.5-3 seconds Jalen processes 4 options.....He's watching the LB's, looks at the 2 Top Slants, and with peripheral vision sees that Safety running up in run support and makes the best/correct decision to hit the Skinny Post (Slant).

Don't tell me he can't go through progressions and make fast decisions or make these throws. Jalen is READY. We can eat teams up on plays like these. My main question is why aren't we committing to it to get really proficient with execution?

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tusks_n_raider said:

How did you come to that conclusion? I'm complimenting Jalen as a QB. I'm acknowledging that CNS is fully aware of how lethal these RPO attacks are and how difficult they are to defend.

The only thing I'm implying if not outright asking from my own confusion is why we don't use it this way on a more consistent basis. We have all the personnel to run it. The coaches know how it works.

It's almost like we are purposely handicapping our potential trying to run more difficult slow developing plays instead. Maybe they are experimenting or sandbagging? I don't know?

I've only brought the whole thing up because some people still act like Jalen is 'limited' and the truth is he's actually extremely improved from last year. He can run the whole show and put up huge numbers doing it. His Deep Ball is drastically better, his mechanics are better, his release is quicker, and his decision making is faster.

All of this if great to see. But with our defense having some troubles right now we are going to need the offense to carry us for the 1st time in a while until we get some guys back. I'd feel better if it looked like we could operate smoothly enough to win future potential shoot-outs.

Eliminating the designed QB draws in 2nd half blowouts would be nice for starters so we actually have Jalen at QB all season. It's just too risky for my liking.

I wish we would focus the running game around Damien/Bo/Jacobs(if healthy) and splashes of Najee. Jalen scrambles are fine if he just obviously has to because of protection break downs or everyone being covered.

But right now.....most of time we have a 2 read play. Long developing routes where the WR has man coverage and beats it and Jalen throws it......or Long developing routes where the WR is covered in man or zone and Jalen takes off running.

When we hit teams with as much talent as us that put a spy on Jalen we will be limited on offense from our own doing if we don't adopt a consistent 'dink and dunk' quick hitting pass game off the RPO.

I'm just antsy about future match-ups really. I know we can run an attack to blister anybody and I'm hoping we do it.....that's all.

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tusks_n_raider said:

Don't tell me he can't go through progressions and make fast decisions or make these throws. Jalen is READY. We can eat teams up on plays like these. My main question is why aren't we committing to it to get really proficient with execution?

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Con said:

I like what you are saying. I felt like the play to Ridley was a thing of beauty. I feel that sometimes we score so quick that it puts our defense at a disadvantage because with our depth being depleted right now they can't catch a breath. I believe we are not showing everything we can do. I mean why do it when you don't have to? We have to good of coaching to not have answers to certain things. The passes to the backs in the flats is setting up a long pass play later on down the line, because the corner will eventually have to break off the receiver to come up to stop that play. We will unleash the dogs when needed, we just haven't needed to yet.

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TIDE-HSV said:

There's no doubt about that at all. That was the main complaint I had about the Kiffen offense. It seemed that the value of a long, grind-it-out drive was just beyond him. I think he didn't have the patience for it, wanted instant gratification. So, he'd carefully set it up and then hit the home run, while he danced around with his arms in the air. A team really, really needs to be able to do both...

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