News Article: Former Aggies AD Spells Out Trouble at Texas A&M

cuda.1973

Hall of Fame
Dec 6, 2009
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Oh, I believe that their boosters were totally disruptive. I just don't buy that he was handed a contract and told that he had no say in it at all. I suspect that their boosters were no worse than Alabama's or Ohio State's, which are bad enough, but nothing like that.
I see you have never been to Tejas......................
 

4Q Basket Case

FB|BB Moderator
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Nov 8, 2004
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I see you have never been to Tejas......................
Agreed. It was a matter of degree and discretion.

Whereas regents and trustees of UTw and aTm are bad to go to the press, UA trustees might make phone calls to coaches, but they rarely air it in the press. Witness the statements to the press when UTw was courting Saban, and the recent written rant by an aTm regent after the collapse against UCLA. I am unaware of a UA Trustee doing anything remotely in that ballpark.

Also, the stick swung by Paul Bryant Jr. kept a lid on things. Between his lineage, his money, and his willingness to use influence, NOBODY crossed him.

Fortunately for us, he had two priorities, neither of which involved self-aggrandizement: (1) preservation and propagation of the idealized image of his father, and (2) the advancement of the University. Quirky though he may be, he's not looking for glory. Finis St. John (father of the current Trustee of the same name), was a respectable second in influence, an all-around class act.

Between the two of them, they kept the egos put of the public eye. There are no corresponding enforcers in Austin or College Station.

So, yes, we have had Trustees and boosters lean on coaches. But they didn't, and still don't, air it in public. Monumental difference.

I'm aware of only one time that they came close. A majority of UA's BOT wanted to retain Mike Price after the Arty's debacle. Dr. Robert Witt, in the President's chair less than 90 days, refused...said, "It's him (Price) or me." The BOT backed down, in no small measure because nobody had made public statements on the subject, and therefore no public words to eat.

Think that would have happened in either Austin or College Station?

The fact that UA isn't 100% pure on this doesn't mean we're no different from the Texas schools. We're not in their galaxy.
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
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I know this may be an unpopular opinion here what with all the connections between our two schools (Bryant, Stallings, Sherrill, Franchione), but quite frankly ATM can go screw themselves for all I care.

The caricature of Texans as a bunch of loud mouthed, arrogant, "we can buy anything we want" stereotypical Jed Clampetts without the common sense is absolutely 100% true at the universities here, and particularly down in Austin and at College Station. They are the most clueless (insert derogatory term here) on the planet.

Y'all need to understand that the whole thing nowadays goes back to ATM luring Franchione here 15 years ago. That one act of so-called larceny (as it was understood at the time) convinced them and everyone in the state that their money was as good as gold and that competing money-wise with Alabama is no different than with Iowa State (not ripping them, I have friends who are alumni and I like them but it's a poor school in athletics esp football). Their crap don't stink and their money can buy anything - and that's exactly WHY that bozo Kevin Berger ran the whole detailed prediction that Saban was not only coming to Texas, he was bringing a pack of 5-stars and the entire coaching staff with him......they literally believed that we were barely keeping the school open with what we were paying Saban and that a $2M a year raise would lure him to the land of nutbags. And they were emboldened in this ignorance by Franchione leaving so easily (that, of course, had more to do with sanctions than with the idea we couldn't keep him money-wise).


So these insufferable louts TRULY believe - ATM is not quite as bad as Texas but that's like saying terminal cancer A is not as bad as terminal cancer B - they honest to god believe their own bullcrap. The problem with these folks is that the marks aren't only out in the crowd being conned, they make up the entire Bored of Regents.

Sumlin beat Saban, making Sumlin a genius or something like that. Never mind anyone watching that game knows that if you watch that entire game, we outplayed them save for the first five minutes, even in defeat. Never mind Sumlin's raise can be traced almost entirely to the lousy play-calling of Doug Nussmeier (who should have received a chunk of change but didn't from Sumlin I'm sure).


I love to tweak these bozoes by pointing out two things:
1) why has all that money at both those schools netted only ONE national title since integration?
2) why do they have coaches with forgettable names that weave in and out and nobody but them remembers except for what that coach did elsewhere? (Jackie Sherrill is more famous for what he did at Pitt or Miss St than at ATM; Bryant and Stallings? No commentary needed)

They stink, I never wanted the in the conference anyway, and they can go blow whatever out their backsides. Let them fork over $30 million since they tell us it's a drop in the bucket. Then they can go hire Lane Kiffin and be yet another 7-5 football team.
 

RT27

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Aug 13, 2017
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Not really, to keep the boosters and board members out of the day to day you need a Saban type coach. One who runs his stuff with his iron fist. AD ,Coach whatever their job, they must be allowed to run the program. OR you get A&M and Auburn. Who knows who runs those programs, we know who runs Bama football NICK. Like Bear before him, and it works well.
 

cuda.1973

Hall of Fame
Dec 6, 2009
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Allen, Texas
Not really, to keep the boosters and board members out of the day to day you need a Saban type coach. One who runs his stuff with his iron fist. AD ,Coach whatever their job, they must be allowed to run the program. OR you get A&M, Auburn and Ol' Spit. Who knows who runs those programs, we know who runs Bama football NICK. Like Bear before him, and it works well.
FIFY.

(Well, actually, we kinda sorta know who runs the last two programs.)
 

WylieTexasTider

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Living in DFW, it is amusing to see how ridiculous aTm can be. Their punter, was admonished by the AD b/c his dad was posting updates on his FB page of how he was punting. Apparently they don’t want a proud parent tweeting or posting when the kid booms a 70 yard punt downed inside the 20.

So, players parents can’t post on social media apparently. I know the punter and have talked to him about Sumlin. Let’s just say Mike Shula was a strict disciplinarian compared to Sumlin. Going out the night before the game is perfectly acceptable.....
 

JessN

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Someone asked if this was similar to how things are done at Alabama. That answer is an unqualified "no."

Back when the whole Saban-to-Texas stuff was going around, I wrote something for this site about how Texas allowed itself to believe it could get Saban to go there when in reality, it could not. Here's the actual line from the article: "Texas was unable to outbid, outmaneuver or outshine Alabama, Saban remained in Tuscaloosa and a thousand overstuffed ten-gallon hats deflated like a hot-air balloon flying flying off-course over an artillery range."

While all this was happening, I was in constant contact with one of our connections in the Dallas area. This is how he phrased it: "Texas believes it can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, when in reality, it can't do anything without it becoming a complete ****-show." He went on to explain the politics behind big-dollar giving around the Longhorn program and what it does to egos. His other quote that I liked: "J.R. Ewing is the most realistic TV character ever created."

Texas A&M isn't much different. A&M and Texas have spent decades trying to big-boy each other and A&M's move to the SEC was just a chess move in that game. His feeling on Texas and Texas A&M both was that neither school was going to accomplish much until people who think daddy's oil money buys them a seat at any table they want to sit at either get out of the room or die altogether.

I have little doubt Hyman's story of Sumlin's extension isn't at least 99 percent accurate.

As for Alabama, things were never that bad here, not even in the period of time from roughly 1986 to 2006, which were the darkest years for this school from a management standpoint. About the time Mal was hired as AD (1999) may have been the apex of the problem, thanks mostly to the borderline-incompetent leadership from Andrew Sorensen and Bob Bockrath. Yet even during that time, you never saw Alabama's richest boosters having public fights in the media or blasting their displeasure out over message boards and talk radio. The closest we ever came to that was the trustee (Drummond?) who questioned Nick Saban's salary level ("that's CEO money"), and it was said once, and never repeated again.

A&M is in much better shape than Texas, but neither school is in great shape relative to booster/insider conduct. I was happy to have A&M as a member but I'm darn glad the SEC didn't take both. I can't imagine having that level of nuclear war completely contained within the SEC West. It would make the situation at Ole Miss look like a corner dice game by comparison.

When Nick Saban finally retires, cracks will form in the foundation and someone is going to try to turn a crack into a doorway. It will be dealt with at the appropriate time and probably behind the scenes. I seriously doubt you'll see this rich-kids-in-the-sandbox stuff you get out of both major Texas schools.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
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Booster involvement? Probably not by much. Financial irresponsibility....YES!!!

In 2006 the Highest paid coach was I believe Pete Carroll making about 3 Mil a year. At that point he had won 2 NC's and 5 Pac-12 Titles.

In the meantime Mike Shula was making around $900K but we doubled it to $1.8 Mil following the 10-Win 2005 season, based on no accolades really. Now that was probably not the best decision but was still outside of the Top-10 paid coaches at the time and less that our Rival Auburn was paying Turberville at the time who was making close to Top 5 money.


Now flash forward to 2017 and look at the Top 10 Highest paid coaches and their respective career accolades:

1) Nick Saban - $8.125 Mil PYA (5 NC's and 7 SEC Titles)
2) Jim Harbaugh - $7.00 Mil PYA (ZERO Power 5 Titles)
3) Urban Meyer - $6.00 Mil PYA (3 NC's and 3 Conf Titles SEC/Big-10)
4) James Franklin - $5.78 Mil PYA (1 Big-10 Title)
5) Jimbo Fisher - $ 5.30 Mil PYA (1 NC and 3 ACC Titles)

6) Dabo Swinney -$5.125 Mil PYA (1 NC and 3 ACC Titles)
7) Tom Herman - $5.00 Mil PYA (ZERO Power 5 Titles, 1 AAC Title)
8) Kevin Sumlin - $5.00 Mil PYA (ZERO Power 5 Titles)
9) Gus Malzahn - $4.75 Mil PYA (1 SEC Title, 1 SBC Title)
10) Kirk Ferentz - $4.50 Mil PYA (2 Big-10 Titles)

There are TWO schools in Texas paying their HC's 63% of the amount of the highest paid coach. Both have literally won nothing. One thing that's not 'Bigger in Texas' is their fiscal sense.

*I can't even begin to describe what's going on in Ann Arbor, MI. Maybe B1G can fill us in on that mindset...Lol.*

Circling back to 2006 Texas A&M was paying Franchione 2 Mil+ which was 8th highest....

....while Texas in comparison was paying Mack Brown $2.7 Mil which was 4th highest (although he HAD actually won 1 NC and 4 Big-12 Titles then).

So all in all it's over 10 years later and Texas A&M still seems to enjoy paying Top-10 Money for virtually NO results to speak of really. I mean that's just unfathomable. It's almost like they have to prove to the University of Texas they can match them dollar for dollar regardless of on the field results/success.

I don't think we've ever really been close to THAT level of incompetence.
Harbaugh coached a team to a SB, and made Stanford relevant again. Both make him deserving of a high salary. Michigan is playing the game we played in 2007 in we are paying a guy to stay long enough to build a foundation. So it's understandable
 

selmaborntidefan

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Someone asked if this was similar to how things are done at Alabama. That answer is an unqualified "no."

Back when the whole Saban-to-Texas stuff was going around, I wrote something for this site about how Texas allowed itself to believe it could get Saban to go there when in reality, it could not. Here's the actual line from the article: "Texas was unable to outbid, outmaneuver or outshine Alabama, Saban remained in Tuscaloosa and a thousand overstuffed ten-gallon hats deflated like a hot-air balloon flying flying off-course over an artillery range."

While all this was happening, I was in constant contact with one of our connections in the Dallas area. This is how he phrased it: "Texas believes it can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, when in reality, it can't do anything without it becoming a complete ****-show." He went on to explain the politics behind big-dollar giving around the Longhorn program and what it does to egos. His other quote that I liked: "J.R. Ewing is the most realistic TV character ever created."

Texas A&M isn't much different. A&M and Texas have spent decades trying to big-boy each other and A&M's move to the SEC was just a chess move in that game. His feeling on Texas and Texas A&M both was that neither school was going to accomplish much until people who think daddy's oil money buys them a seat at any table they want to sit at either get out of the room or die altogether.

I have little doubt Hyman's story of Sumlin's extension isn't at least 99 percent accurate.

As for Alabama, things were never that bad here, not even in the period of time from roughly 1986 to 2006, which were the darkest years for this school from a management standpoint. About the time Mal was hired as AD (1999) may have been the apex of the problem, thanks mostly to the borderline-incompetent leadership from Andrew Sorensen and Bob Bockrath. Yet even during that time, you never saw Alabama's richest boosters having public fights in the media or blasting their displeasure out over message boards and talk radio. The closest we ever came to that was the trustee (Drummond?) who questioned Nick Saban's salary level ("that's CEO money"), and it was said once, and never repeated again.

A&M is in much better shape than Texas, but neither school is in great shape relative to booster/insider conduct. I was happy to have A&M as a member but I'm darn glad the SEC didn't take both. I can't imagine having that level of nuclear war completely contained within the SEC West. It would make the situation at Ole Miss look like a corner dice game by comparison.

When Nick Saban finally retires, cracks will form in the foundation and someone is going to try to turn a crack into a doorway. It will be dealt with at the appropriate time and probably behind the scenes. I seriously doubt you'll see this rich-kids-in-the-sandbox stuff you get out of both major Texas schools.

Absolutely dead-on right.

Anyone who watched the old 1980s prime time soap "Dallas" thought that NOBODY could actually be like JR Ewing was....surely a caricature, a straw man, an extreme..........on the BOTs of both of these schools, Ewing would be SANE by comparison....
 

Redwood Forrest

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I haven't weighed in on this thread until now. JessN has it right, I think. I did not know all the little detail he brought up but I do know something about Human Nature, Big Money and Texas Egos. Go ahead, put Human Nature, Big Money and Texas Egos together and shake well. Season to taste. Bake, Broil, Boil or Fry -- it is still going to give you 'the runs.'

note: Texas Ego is what my best friend has always called someone, or some institution, who thinks they are better and above others. He would say, "they have that Texas ego."
 

bamacpa

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1. Let's also throw in the SMU Pony Excess boosters when considering his words. While that tale is over 35 years old, Meyer and his backers were competing with the T Sips and Aggies and that competition spawned Dickerson's Trans Am and school admins sending out cash in university envelopes.
2. I thought his comments about not taking care of the athletes to be most interesting. I think the overall well-being of student athletes will continue to be hot topics of discussion. It's a huge business that needs to protect its labor force.
 

cuda.1973

Hall of Fame
Dec 6, 2009
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While we are picking on aTm (always lots of fun!), which of the following seems out of place:

1.) Blue Bell ice cream.
2.) Salmonella.
3.) "It can't happen here." (h/t to Frank Zappa)

Anyone remember the episode of King of the Hill where the Alamo beer was contaminated?, Yeah, had to be owned and operated by Aggies.
 

rgw

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It is almost always the boosters' fault when things go wrong and the AD's credit when things go right.


Funny how that works.
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
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Booster involvement? Probably not by much. Financial irresponsibility....YES!!!

In 2006 the Highest paid coach was I believe Pete Carroll making about 3 Mil a year. At that point he had won 2 NC's and 5 Pac-12 Titles.

In the meantime Mike Shula was making around $900K but we doubled it to $1.8 Mil following the 10-Win 2005 season, based on no accolades really. Now that was probably not the best decision but was still outside of the Top-10 paid coaches at the time and less that our Rival Auburn was paying Turberville at the time who was making close to Top 5 money.


Now flash forward to 2017 and look at the Top 10 Highest paid coaches and their respective career accolades:

1) Nick Saban - $8.125 Mil PYA (5 NC's and 7 SEC Titles)
2) Jim Harbaugh - $7.00 Mil PYA (ZERO Power 5 Titles)
3) Urban Meyer - $6.00 Mil PYA (3 NC's and 3 Conf Titles SEC/Big-10)
4) James Franklin - $5.78 Mil PYA (1 Big-10 Title)
5) Jimbo Fisher - $ 5.30 Mil PYA (1 NC and 3 ACC Titles)

6) Dabo Swinney -$5.125 Mil PYA (1 NC and 3 ACC Titles)
7) Tom Herman - $5.00 Mil PYA (ZERO Power 5 Titles, 1 AAC Title)
8) Kevin Sumlin - $5.00 Mil PYA (ZERO Power 5 Titles)
9) Gus Malzahn - $4.75 Mil PYA (1 SEC Title, 1 SBC Title)
10) Kirk Ferentz - $4.50 Mil PYA (2 Big-10 Titles)

There are TWO schools in Texas paying their HC's 63% of the amount of the highest paid coach. Both have literally won nothing. One thing that's not 'Bigger in Texas' is their fiscal sense.

*I can't even begin to describe what's going on in Ann Arbor, MI. Maybe B1G can fill us in on that mindset...Lol.*

Circling back to 2006 Texas A&M was paying Franchione 2 Mil+ which was 8th highest....

....while Texas in comparison was paying Mack Brown $2.7 Mil which was 4th highest (although he HAD actually won 1 NC and 4 Big-12 Titles then).

So all in all it's over 10 years later and Texas A&M still seems to enjoy paying Top-10 Money for virtually NO results to speak of really. I mean that's just unfathomable. It's almost like they have to prove to the University of Texas they can match them dollar for dollar regardless of on the field results/success.

I don't think we've ever really been close to THAT level of incompetence.
This is a lot of good date you've put together but I feel like a major point is being missed here. Schools aren't necessarily paying coaches to win championships. I know that might sound strange but schools are really paying coaches to bring value to the university. Yes, one way of doing that is to win championships because that increases enrollment and overall exposure for the entire university. But, and I don't have this exact information on hand, if you look at how Michigan has performed financially since Harbaugh's been there I bet he's created tremendous value for the university in his short time there through increased donations, enrollment, exposure, etc. I'd bet that's true of most of the coaches on this list as well..
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
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This is a lot of good date you've put together but I feel like a major point is being missed here. Schools aren't necessarily paying coaches to win championships. I know that might sound strange but schools are really paying coaches to bring value to the university. Yes, one way of doing that is to win championships because that increases enrollment and overall exposure for the entire university. But, and I don't have this exact information on hand, if you look at how Michigan has performed financially since Harbaugh's been there I bet he's created tremendous value for the university in his short time there through increased donations, enrollment, exposure, etc. I'd bet that's true of most of the coaches on this list as well..
Yep - fans miss this point entirely. What Saban has done for Alabama transcends football. Alabama is not the same school now vs. 2006. Harbaugh has not made that kind of impact at this point, but he has certainly increased booster donations.
 

Chukker Veteran

Hall of Fame
Feb 6, 2001
10,587
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Someone asked if this was similar to how things are done at Alabama. That answer is an unqualified "no."

Back when the whole Saban-to-Texas stuff was going around, I wrote something for this site about how Texas allowed itself to believe it could get Saban to go there when in reality, it could not. Here's the actual line from the article: "Texas was unable to outbid, outmaneuver or outshine Alabama, Saban remained in Tuscaloosa and a thousand overstuffed ten-gallon hats deflated like a hot-air balloon flying flying off-course over an artillery range."

While all this was happening, I was in constant contact with one of our connections in the Dallas area. This is how he phrased it: "Texas believes it can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, when in reality, it can't do anything without it becoming a complete ****-show." He went on to explain the politics behind big-dollar giving around the Longhorn program and what it does to egos. His other quote that I liked: "J.R. Ewing is the most realistic TV character ever created."

Texas A&M isn't much different. A&M and Texas have spent decades trying to big-boy each other and A&M's move to the SEC was just a chess move in that game. His feeling on Texas and Texas A&M both was that neither school was going to accomplish much until people who think daddy's oil money buys them a seat at any table they want to sit at either get out of the room or die altogether.

I have little doubt Hyman's story of Sumlin's extension isn't at least 99 percent accurate.

As for Alabama, things were never that bad here, not even in the period of time from roughly 1986 to 2006, which were the darkest years for this school from a management standpoint. About the time Mal was hired as AD (1999) may have been the apex of the problem, thanks mostly to the borderline-incompetent leadership from Andrew Sorensen and Bob Bockrath. Yet even during that time, you never saw Alabama's richest boosters having public fights in the media or blasting their displeasure out over message boards and talk radio. The closest we ever came to that was the trustee (Drummond?) who questioned Nick Saban's salary level ("that's CEO money"), and it was said once, and never repeated again.

A&M is in much better shape than Texas, but neither school is in great shape relative to booster/insider conduct. I was happy to have A&M as a member but I'm darn glad the SEC didn't take both. I can't imagine having that level of nuclear war completely contained within the SEC West. It would make the situation at Ole Miss look like a corner dice game by comparison.

When Nick Saban finally retires, cracks will form in the foundation and someone is going to try to turn a crack into a doorway. It will be dealt with at the appropriate time and probably behind the scenes. I seriously doubt you'll see this rich-kids-in-the-sandbox stuff you get out of both major Texas schools.
I don't have the inside connections/info you do, but in my opinion, the Bama boosters were damn near out of control during the DuBose run.
 

ccc2259

All-American
Oct 29, 2010
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I know nothing about Hyman's capabilities, but if an AD as seasoned as he was couldn't handle the A&M culture, it must really be something to behold. There's a widely accepted Human-Action model that says 3 things must exist before people change their behavior: 1) Dissatisfaction with the current state; 2) A vision of a better state; and 3) A belief that the better state is achievable. Current A&M public exposure would indicate a major crash-and-burn will have to happen before things change there.
 

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