Is SEC really down

RTR91 · Sep 25, 2017

B1GTide said:
See above - no - but the result is the same. The SEC is weaker.

I saw your post right after I posted my reply. You and I agree on that. I'm just taking that into consideration with your scenario. You're not.

It's simple cause and effect.

CrimsonForce · Sep 25, 2017

RollTide_HTTR said:
I think 2 things have happened to make the SEC look like it is "down." 1. Other conferences caught up specifically with HC talent. Urban left the SEC for the Big 10 and then Harbaugh joined them as well. Dabo started to really find his groove and Jimbo had Jamies for a while. Meanwhile, the SEC lost Urban (as mentioned) and Les Miles (not great but certainty better than the cartoon character that replaced him). The 2nd best coach in the conference is at a school that simply doesn't have the resources to be a consistent powerhouse (Mullen at Mississippi State). Heck Stoops is probably a top 5 coach in the SEC and he is at Kentucky. Maybe Kriby can change this? But right now there is a dearth of high level coaching talent in the SEC 2. The coaching losses and Alabama dominance has lead to fewer truly elite teams in the conference. Alabama has no real consistent competition in the SEC while other conferences have a few teams on top. The competition at the top of a conference gives the appearance of a strong conference even if there are teams like say...Rutgers in the conference.

So, top to bottom I think the SEC is on par with basically every conference if not better but the lack of a real rival to Alabama gives the appearance of a down conference.

You left out James Franklin leaving Vandy for Penn St, Steve Spurrier retiring, and Hugh Freeze resigning. Big downgrade for those schools plus the other ones you mentioned..

Power Eye · Sep 25, 2017

B1GTide said:
Back to the original question - I was talking to my son about this yesterday and he asked me a simple question - what would the SEC look like, compared to the other conferences, without Alabama. So I took it a step further and imagined a playoff without the best team in each P5 conference and I found that every other conference has multiple teams capable of winning it all, while the SEC only has Alabama. A few years ago the SEC could throw 3-4 teams into the playoff pool and any one of them might be able to win it all. That is just not true right now.

Georgia may change that. We will see. But for now the SEC really is Alabama, then a huge drop-off to the next team.

I agree that the number of upper echelon teams in the SEC has diminished, but I don't agree that Alabama is the only team in the SEC that can win it all. I think both Auburn and Georgia are capable of beating every team left on their respective schedules. I don't think they will, but I think they could. I also think LSU is capable of beating every team left on their schedule if they don't give up in the first half like they did with Miss St. To put it another way, I think the top 4 SEC teams could match up pretty much equally with any of the top 4 teams from any other conference.

RollTide_HTTR · Sep 25, 2017

CrimsonForce said:
You left out James Franklin leaving Vandy for Penn St, Steve Spurrier retiring, and Hugh Freeze resigning. Big downgrade for those schools plus the other ones you mentioned..

yup good point.

B1GTide · Sep 25, 2017

Power Eye said:
I agree that the number of upper echelon teams in the SEC has diminished, but I don't agree that Alabama is the only team in the SEC that can win it all. I think both Auburn and Georgia are capable of beating every team left on their respective schedules. I don't think they will, but I think they could. I also think LSU is capable of beating every team left on their schedule if they don't give up in the first half like they did with Miss St. To put it another way, I think the top 4 SEC teams could match up pretty much equally with any of the top 4 teams from any other conference.

Auburn already got destroyed by Clemson once. They are out of the conversation as far as I am concerned. And LSU would get slaughtered in the playoffs this year. As for Georgia - I agree that they might be really good.

B1GTide · Sep 25, 2017

RollTide_HTTR said:
Do they though? I guess this is where I get hung up. What are the multiple teams this year from each conference and how good are they really? This is the problem with rating college football teams across conferences. There are so few match ups its hard to get a real feel. Who are the multiple teams in the Pac 12 or ACC? Heck even the Big 10 seems down this year at the top.

In the ACC it is just the Clemson show now that Francois is out. The PAC has Washington and USC. The B1G has PSU, Michigan and Ohio State. The Big 12 has Oklahoma, TCU and (maybe Oklahoma State if the TCU game was a fluke).

B1GTide · Sep 25, 2017

RTR91 said:
I saw your post right after I posted my reply. You and I agree on that. I'm just taking that into consideration with your scenario. You're not.

It's simple cause and effect.

I was just talking about removing them this year - say if injuries removed them from the equation like FSU in the ACC - not as if they didn't exist. I didn't explain my thoughts well enough. My fault.

Bamabuzzard · Sep 25, 2017

Power Eye said:
I agree that the number of upper echelon teams in the SEC has diminished, but I don't agree that Alabama is the only team in the SEC that can win it all. I think both Auburn and Georgia are capable of beating every team left on their respective schedules. I don't think they will, but I think they could. I also think LSU is capable of beating every team left on their schedule if they don't give up in the first half like they did with Miss St. To put it another way, I think the top 4 SEC teams could match up pretty much equally with any of the top 4 teams from any other conference.

You obviously haven't watched LSU play this year. I'm not being snarky just saying there's no way you could have watched them play and even jokingly consider them in the conversation of competing for the conference title. That train is very close to falling off the tracks in Baton Rouge.

Power Eye · Sep 25, 2017

B1GTide said:
In the ACC it is just the Clemson show now that Francois is out. The PAC has Washington and USC. The B1G has PSU, Michigan and Ohio State. The Big 12 has Oklahoma, TCU and (maybe Oklahoma State if the TCU game was a fluke).

I agree with you on Clemson, Oklahoma, and maybe even Michigan. But honestly, what have we seen from PSU, USC, or Washington that suggests they are truly ready to compete with Alabama or Clemson? PSU has blown-out some pretty terrible competition and got a skin-of-the-teeth win against Iowa. As for USC, I've only watched 2 games (Texas and Cal) and have been less than impressed.

My point is that outside of Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, are there really any teams this year that have demonstrated that they can win it all? You mentioned in a previous post that Auburn is out of the conversation because they were "destroyed" by Clemson, which I don't agree they were destroyed. Would the same philosophy not apply to Ohio State since they were probably destroyed even more so by Oklahoma?
I

Power Eye · Sep 25, 2017

Bamabuzzard said:
You obviously haven't watched LSU play this year. I'm not being snarky just saying there's no way you could have watched them play and even jokingly consider them in the conversation of competing for the conference title. That train is very close to falling off the tracks in Baton Rouge.

I don't think LSU is going to win-out or come close to it for the very reasons you suggest, but there is enough talent on that team to beat any team left on their schedule. Again, I don't think it will happen.

B1GTide · Sep 25, 2017

Power Eye said:
I agree with you on Clemson, Oklahoma, and maybe even Michigan. But honestly, what have we seen from PSU, USC, or Washington that suggests they are truly ready to compete with Alabama or Clemson? PSU has blown-out some pretty terrible competition and got a skin-of-the-teeth win against Iowa. As for USC, I've only watched 2 games (Texas and Cal) and have been less than impressed.

My point is that outside of Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, are there really any teams this year that have demonstrated that they can win it all? You mentioned in a previous post that Auburn is out of the conversation because they were "destroyed" by Clemson, which I don't agree they were destroyed. Would the same philosophy not apply to Ohio State since they were probably destroyed even more so by Oklahoma?
I

The difference between Auburn and OSU is simple - coaching. Meyer has had several teams lose games and bounce back to win championships. Auburn's coaching situation is a mess all the way around.

CrimsonForce · Sep 25, 2017

B1GTide said:
Auburn already got destroyed by Clemson once. They are out of the conversation as far as I am concerned. And LSU would get slaughtered in the playoffs this year. As for Georgia - I agree that they might be really good.

Eh, I haven't been impressed with AU at all this year but I'd hardly describe losing a game 14-6 on the road as being destroyed. At this point it wouldn't surprise me at all if the iron bowl is a matchup of undefeated Alabama and 1 loss AU for the SEC west championship. In that scenario AU is definitely in play for a playoff spot..

JaxTider · Sep 25, 2017

The rise of Ohio St, Michigan, Penn St., Clemson and FSU and the demise of LSU and Florida has brought the SEC back to the pack.

And look at the Coaching in this group.

Harbaugh
Urban
Franklin
Dabo
Jumbo

Vs.

Mcelwain
Muschamp
Orgeron

It's coaching. And it's coaching because Saban dispatched Urban and Miles.

Power Eye · Sep 25, 2017

B1GTide said:
The difference between Auburn and OSU is simple - coaching. Meyer has had several teams lose games and bounce back to win championships. Auburn's coaching situation is a mess all the way around.

As much as I would love to dismiss Auburn at this point, I still remember Auburn being in a similar situation in 2013 at this point in the season, and ended-up being one play away from winning a national title.

RollTide_HTTR · Sep 25, 2017

B1GTide said:
In the ACC it is just the Clemson show now that Francois is out. The PAC has Washington and USC. The B1G has PSU, Michigan and Ohio State. The Big 12 has Oklahoma, TCU and (maybe Oklahoma State if the TCU game was a fluke).

I guess I just don't think teams like Washington, USC, Michigan, etc. are definitely bigger competition to Bama than Georgia at this point. For example, if you put Washington in the SEC East do you think they would be considered a clear threat to Alabama in a way that Georgia isn't? or even this years Michigan team and the USC team we have seen so far? I'm not convinced they would be.

selmaborntidefan · Sep 25, 2017

RT27 said:
AP still has 6 teams in top 25, I know we are not as strong a conference as a few years ago, but 6 in top 25 after 4 weeks is not to bad.

This is not the monster conference that scared the hell out of everyone 2006-2012.

It's good by comparison with most other conferences. I mean, Auburn is an 8-5 team at best and went toe to toe with Clemson on the road.

Vandy should never be able to beat K-State in this day and age (thirty years ago this wouldn't have been a surprise)

Ole Miss is a dumpster fire, Tennessee is scraping by, Florida's loss to Michigan was worse than the final score..........

If we don't blow out everyone, we're going to have some serious concerns barring a sudden change for a team.

BamaInBham · Sep 25, 2017

Power Eye said:
As much as I would love to dismiss Auburn at this point, I still remember Auburn being in a similar situation in 2013 at this point in the season, and ended-up being one play away from winning a national title.

But they got there with 2 once-in-a-lifetime plays, neither of which will likely happen again; they should have also lost to A&M and MSU, and played one score games with WSU and OM. More importantly, Bama is much stronger this year and AU is weaker than that year. If AU manages to navigate a weak SEC til UGA, they will likely lose that game. Their D is strong, but not quite what it seems. Bama, with a weaker O than this year, put 500 yds on a supposedly very good AU D last year. Bama will have to play against AU, but their B game is enough.

theballguy · Sep 25, 2017

B1GTide said:
Compared to the previous decade - absolutely. Compared to the other P5 conferences right now? No.

Exactly this ^

Is SEC really down

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