News Article: GOP tax reform benefits top 1% and businesses
- Thread starter CharminTide
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Lots of people do this. Any maybe the wealthier people wouldn't give more back if they were allowed to keep more of their earnings, but you'll never convince me that it's somehow the responsibility of the wealthy in this country to keep things rolling along.
My wife and I donate large sums to charity every year. We could easily keep that money, but we do feel the calling to help others. That said, helping others because the government forced you to isn't compassion, it's forced redistribution, no matter what you call it.
Here's one thing you can count on. If anything is passed it will increase the deficit/debt and the top 5% will make out well.
I don't think the comparison is as much government versus charity as it is federal government versus state government. Federal taxation should be minimal in my opinion. States and their peoples could then tax themselves based on what type of community/society they wish to have ranging from highly communal to highly individualistic. It was the beauty of the original design of the country (federalism) that has since been highly bastardized.
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What if the state government wants a society where the rich get richer on the backs of the middle class. At one time I was a big tenth amendment advocate until I realized Alabama is terribly corrupt.
You admit government is not 100% efficient and analogize it to chemical reactions. It's much, much worse than that. Government is retarded-level inefficient at transactions big and small. How can one be shown trillions of dollars of waste (in this and many other threads over the years) and still advocate for big government?
The easy way to reduce government corruption is to reduce government power, especially with respect to the level of taxation.
When this topic comes up, you seem to always focus on the negatives without any regard for the positives. I can accept some inefficiency because I appreciate having roads that are routinely maintained, having meat I purchase be inspected for safety by the USDA and water safety standards set by the EPA, having prescription drug efficacy and safety ensured by the FDA and health care coverage for as many Americans as possible, live in a society where public education is available to every child and employers must ensure the safety of their employees, live in a country where national parks are protected and maintained through generations, where we benefit from the Weather Service predicting when and where deadly storms will strike and from FEMA supplying aid in the aftermath, feel pride in the many accomplishments of NASA, sequencing the human genome at the NIH, the discovery of new targeted cancer treatments at the NCI, and the provisioning of more than half of all University research funding to simultaneously help present society and train the next generation of scientists.
I could go on for paragraphs. It's easy to stomp your feet and demonize "big government" as nothing but waste and thievery. But it's also dishonest. Though government certainly has inefficiencies, and though I support any effort to make its actions more efficient, it cannot be denied that the government provides numerous services that helps its citizens.
Heh. Some inefficiency? That’s the loosest use of the term imaginable. That’s Orwellian-style newspeak. That’s like being upset a discussion of poop involves the stink. (Can't we ignore the negatives and focus on the positives of the poop? Lol) You work hard to ignore the obvious.
Just because you like something doesn’t mean it’s the federal government’s role to provide it. (For example, the feds have no constitutional role in education. There are several other cabinet level bureaucracies that should be eliminated too. The waste eliminated would be more than $300,000,000,000.) And it certainly doesn’t mean the government is doing the task well. (For example, defense spending is constitutional. But, surely even you can admit that massive waste exists.) It’s is easy to find hundreds of billions of dollars in unnecessary federal spending.
And the way government spends money is a joke. This is my job, so I see this goat rodeo every day. It takes three months to buy the simplest thing if all things fall into place. Wasted time is wasted money. Some of our buys have taken nine months. The private sector could get this done in a week. We’ve hired contractors who can’t do the tasks they were hired to do. It took about 18 months to terminate the contract. This is ridiculous, right?
I’m sure you could. You've made it clear you like it when other people fund big government. Volume does not equal being correct, however.
Government is big, wasteful, and engages in thievery. It steals from productive people now; it steals from our children and grandchildren’s future. Everyone should be greatly offended by this. Those that aren’t are the ones paying nothing into the system. Or they are the leeches on federal teat. Or they view things through a class warfare lense, and they can put a salve their jealously by thinking, “It’s the evil rich that are paying the bill.” Of course, at the same time, they claim the rich don’t pay any taxes. The self-delusion is multi-faceted.
On this we agree. Government and the politicians and lobbyists who run government are dishonest.
Massive, retarded-level inefficiencies. To give a $1 to Paul the government has to take $1.50 from Peter.
I’m telling you - and have told you – there’s no such animal. To get anything done one has to navigate a Rube Goldberg machine of bureaucratic approvals. That’s not changing in any meaningful way. The government lies to itself about how to improve its processes. It went on a kick to hire MBAs to improve efficiency. It put people through Lean Six Sigma training to improve efficiency. I’ve participated in several “efficiency” reviews and made recommendations. Nothing improved. In fact, the layers of bureaucracy increased. People will protect their fiefdoms, and there are countless of these.
Government can’t help Paul without taking from Peter. To ignore this is like my roommate who only counted his winnings at the casinos but ignored his loses. He lost tens of thousands of dollars for every couple of thousand he would win. Of course, the roommate only lied to himself about wasting his own money. So, he’s more honest and better at finance than the government.
Sigh. Well, I guess I wasn't really expecting anything other than vague soundbites in response.
I realize that, in your utopian ideal, unfettered market forces solve all ails. That in your idealized history, Chicago meatpackers weren't losing body parts to grinders, spilling their own blood and flesh into meat that was sold at markets. But in reality, OSHA regulations and USDA inspections were created for a reason: to fill those gaps your unfettered free market did not. While I'm sure you'll disagree, most people understand that these represent necessary corrections to an economic system that is not without flaw.
Take some advice from a pragmatist: you can point to one or another small sliver of the overall pie all you want. But if your campaign is to truly reduce waste and inefficiency, I'd recommend you begin that with the 54% of the pie that most of the country will agree is singularly more entwined with political corruption and waste than any other piece. And while I believe you vote Libertarian, the second graph may be an interesting counter-narrative for the GOP voters in this thread who so loudly decry increased government spending.
I realize that, in your utopian ideal, unfettered market forces solve all ails. That in your idealized history, Chicago meatpackers weren't losing body parts to grinders, spilling their own blood and flesh into meat that was sold at markets. But in reality, OSHA regulations and USDA inspections were created for a reason: to fill those gaps your unfettered free market did not. While I'm sure you'll disagree, most people understand that these represent necessary corrections to an economic system that is not without flaw.
Take some advice from a pragmatist: you can point to one or another small sliver of the overall pie all you want. But if your campaign is to truly reduce waste and inefficiency, I'd recommend you begin that with the 54% of the pie that most of the country will agree is singularly more entwined with political corruption and waste than any other piece. And while I believe you vote Libertarian, the second graph may be an interesting counter-narrative for the GOP voters in this thread who so loudly decry increased government spending.
i'm with ya on the military spending. imo we dont need to spend >$600bn on the military. take a $150bn out and return that to the populace (everyone that pays federal taxes) as a tax cut. i know i'd sure appreciate it. and take out another $100bn and put it towards NIH funding....NOT the DOE or EPA or HUD etcplease.....more money for anything other than biomedical or STEM research would be a waste imo. even with a $250bn cut from the military we'd still be spending about $400 BILLION (or more) on the military industrial complex.....way more than what we would need.
Sigh. Well, I guess I wasn't really expecting anything other than vague soundbites in response.
I realize that, in your utopian ideal, unfettered market forces solve all ails. That in your idealized history, Chicago meatpackers weren't losing body parts to grinders, spilling their own blood and flesh into meat that was sold at markets. But in reality, OSHA regulations and USDA inspections were created for a reason: to fill those gaps your unfettered free market did not. While I'm sure you'll disagree, most people understand that these represent necessary corrections to an economic system that is not without flaw.
Take some advice from a pragmatist: you can point to one or another small sliver of the overall pie all you want. But if your campaign is to truly reduce waste and inefficiency, I'd recommend you begin that with the 54% of the pie that most of the country will agree is singularly more entwined with political corruption and waste than any other piece. And while I believe you vote Libertarian, the second graph may be an interesting counter-narrative for the GOP voters in this thread who so loudly decry increased government spending.
Vague soundbites? Like your notion that trillions of waste is "some inefficiency." You have it backwards, bud.
Wow. Wow. Wow. I'm not a Utoptian, and I've seen nothing to suggest you are a pragmatist. Like economics concepts, these are more terms you misuse. Kinda sad.
Pointing out tens and hundreds of billions of waste per example is a small sliver? How about you use the Constitution to justify whatever spending you favor. If you're honest, that amount is very small.
You really need to venture out of your leftist San Francisco bubble. My views are based on observing what actually works. That you gloss over trillions of waste is amazing.
How bizarre. I'm on no campaign; I'm merely trying to enlighten those who have misplaced their faith in big government. And I point out waste everywhere. If you've paid attention I've pointed out plenty of waste in the DoD as well. I work for the DoD. I've posted many first hand examples of waste. Please pay attention.
Here's an example of California's awesome way with taxpayer funds:
Government spending and waste at the federal level:
This is an example of something I see all the time. It's how government requirements creep and consume massive amounts of manhours and money. And it ultimately fails.
Government spending and waste at the federal level:
This is an example of something I see all the time. It's how government requirements creep and consume massive amounts of manhours and money. And it ultimately fails.
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That's actually a famous brunch bar in town. Known for its pinko-commie-midget-tranny drag.
If Republican presidents had control of the budget and increased spending more than Democratic presidents after adjusting for inflation, it still doesn't make it the right thing to do
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