Poll: Bama Opponent Penalty Rankings Going Back To 2010

Do These Opposition Penalty Rankings Show...

  • Overt Bias Against Bama

    Votes: 12 29.3%
  • Subliminal Bias Against Bama

    Votes: 22 53.7%
  • Some Levels of Incompetence

    Votes: 3 7.3%
  • Nothing At All

    Votes: 4 9.8%

  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .

PitMaster

Suspended
Aug 24, 2015
2,281
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0
I hear a lot of whining about "Bama Bumps, Bama Bias, SEC Office in Bammerham, etc, but these numbers show excactly, imo, the opposite.
Do these rankings show offciating bias, either overt or subliminal, incompetence, or just nothing at all?

BAMA OPPONENT PENALTIES PER GAME

2017 - Currently 127 out of 130
2016 - Dead Last 128 of 128 (Clemson #4) :(
2015 - 54 out of 128
2014 - 125 of 128
2013 - 65 of 125
2012 - 110 of 124
2011 - 114 of 120
2010 - 76 of 120

You would think that better teams, for the most part, have better athletes playing with higher degrees of discipline, right? Which should lead to forcing teams into more penalties, especially of the holding / interfering type? But these numbers, from www.teamrankings.com show Bama in the top 50 percentile of opposition penalties only once in the last 8 years! Three of the last 4 are in the BOTTOM 5%, and 5 of the last 7 years in the bottom 10%.

A year or two is just data - but does 8 years of consistent numbers not illustrate a pattern? I remember a few years ago there was a stretch where Bama went something like 9 or 10 games without a single holding call on the opposition. Also I have heard an official essentially say, without using specifics, that flags should have flown on those pick plays resulting in 2 Clemson TDs and thereby costing Bama a National Championship.

Thoughts?
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,588
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It has nothing to do with Alabama in particular - they do this to most dominant teams. Look at where Ohio State lands in these rankings the last 5 years or so.
 

4Q Basket Case

FB|BB Moderator
Staff member
Nov 8, 2004
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Intuitively, I'd think it's subliminal bias against the favorite, not necessarily Alabama. Especially so if the favorite is also a traditional power. And most especially if that traditional power has its own tradition of physical, smash-mouth football.

In today's basketball on grass style of play, there aren't many of those left. But I'm curious -- where did LSU and tOSU rank during this same time frame? Wonder if we could get stats on USCw in the Pete Carroll / Lendale White / Reggie Bush era?
 

PitMaster

Suspended
Aug 24, 2015
2,281
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It has nothing to do with Alabama in particular - they do this to most dominant teams. Look at where Ohio State lands in these rankings the last 5 years or so.
Ok - Buckeye Version

2017 - 109
2016 - 118
2015 - 101
2014 - 106
2013 - 74
2012 - 71
2011 - 50
2010 - 99

Similar, and again puzzling.
 

PitMaster

Suspended
Aug 24, 2015
2,281
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Agreed, but that wasn't an option in this poll. PM makes this all about Alabama, and it clearly is not.
Ok - Numbers for OSU are posted - lets look at, say OKlahoma and FSU in same time frame...

Oklahoma

2017 - 102
2016 - 36
2015 - 75
2014 - 65
2013 - 58
2012 - 114
2011 - 40
2010 - 9

Avg 62.4

FSU

2017 - 64
2016 - 46
2015 - 103
2014 - 73
2013 - 96
2012 - 94
2011 - 54
2010 - 15

Avg -68.1
 

TrueCrimson7

All-American
Sep 21, 2014
2,719
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Probably subliminal due to dominance of big name schools mentioned above. Could it also be at least in part due to the (usually) larger size of our OL and DL players? A smaller opposing player holding on for dear life against a charging Jonathan Allen may not elicit the same emotional, flag-reaching response for an official as when one of our big O-linemen holds a smaller opponent. When two people you don't know are in a backyard brawl, isn't it the larger fighter who is often seen as the bully? Just a thought.
 

UntouchableCrew

All-SEC
Nov 30, 2015
1,530
338
102
Probably subliminal due to dominance of big name schools mentioned above. Could it also be at least in part due to the (usually) larger size of our OL and DL players? A smaller opposing player holding on for dear life against a charging Jonathan Allen may not elicit the same emotional, flag-reaching response for an official as when one of our big O-linemen holds a smaller opponent. When two people you don't know are in a backyard brawl, isn't it the larger fighter who is often seen as the bully? Just a thought.
I'm also curious if this is penalties called or penalties accepted. Elite teams probably accept less penalties because they're making huge plays despite them.
 

RT27

All-American
Aug 13, 2017
2,301
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82
I do not know what refs think so I cannot slam or defend them. I would like to see all refs from all conferences get a lot more consistent on what they call. There is so much left to them to make a CALL. Lets write rules and enforce them to all. 1 year review most every play, set a standard so they all know what will and will not be allowed. I have seen basically the same play called 4 different ways, I know it is hard thankless job, but no one put gun to their head to take the job. I think the league needs to be MORE proactive on policing the refs. Players get penalties and ejected, lets try that for blatant missed calls. I have seen refs look straight at a guy with a hand full of jersey do nothing, in those cases he needs to be pulled in front of everyone. At this level it should be better. They need to set standards so week to week crew to crew a team knows what is and is not going to be allowed and to what level. I know holding can be called every play, they need to set how far it is allowed to go. AND use replay for when they do not see stuff, a penalty is no less a penalty cause ref was not looking. This also will make player play clean knowing cameras will be used against them. Especially on the fouls not near the actual play.
 

PA Tide Fan

All-American
Dec 11, 2014
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Lancaster, PA
This thread seems somewhat similar to a thread I posted back in January upon conclusion of the football season. Perhaps a few people missed it since football season was over. In my study I went back 14 seasons to 2003 so it included years before Coach Saban arrived. What I found was that before Coach Saban's first NC we ranked on average #46 in opponent penalties called vs. #96 after Coach Saban's first NC.

Here was the link to my post:https://www.tidefans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279994&highlight=
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
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How about where Alabama ranks in penalties during this time period? It seems like there's not many penalties called in our games either against us or the opponent..
 

rgw

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Sep 15, 2003
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Unintentional underdog bias. It is the answer to these numbers. I do NOT think there is a conspiracy. It is the nature of officiating in high school and college sports. Only solvable by professionalization where people's jobs depend on impartiality and accuracy.
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
12,757
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Unintentional underdog bias. It is the answer to these numbers. I do NOT think there is a conspiracy. It is the nature of officiating in high school and college sports. Only solvable by professionalization where people's jobs depend on impartiality and accuracy.
I agree. It almost reminds me of growing up playing in basketball leagues. There was always that 1 team who looked bigger, stronger, faster, older than all the other teams. When we would play that team we could get away with just about anything except for something egregious. Everybody already knew the outcome because of the physical disparity so what's the point in calling tick tack fouls against the smaller team. I think similar logic applies here. For example, we play Arkansas this weekend and they have no chance against us. The officials aren't going to call penalties on Arkansas that are judgement infractions like holding. They'll call something like false start because they have to but I don't expect to get any judgement penalties against a team like Arkansas. I'm not saying it's right but it's just human instinct.

I think maybe a better comparison for the OP would be between Alabama and it's opponents in the SECCG, the playoffs and national championship games..
 
Last edited:

Saban4Ever

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Sep 27, 2016
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I do wish something could be done about the bias. I imagine coaches and players get frustrated. It's worrisome to think who the refs will be and how much they will mess up when we play at Auburn this year. Our team will need to play extra focused to beat Auburn and the refs. A SEC championship is at stake.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
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I would guess it's a subliminal bias against most elite teams.
I think the bias is real, but this is how I would attribute it. I think the default position for refs in all sports is to try to make games competitive. I don't think it's necessarily deliberate, but it can play out like a boxer behind held back while the opponent has time to gather himself. I've seen a lot of situations where Alabama is soundly beating an opponent, and the refs make a couple of calls (be it against Alabama or just swallowing the whistle when Alabama gets mugged) that kind of get the other team back in the game. I've seen that in other sports a lot as well, like basketball.
 

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