Opinions on our offense (see admin note on page six)...

BamaMoon

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Apr 1, 2004
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Sims hasn't been the possession receiver I'd hoped he would round into and I'm crestfallen to think that it's all over for Robert Foster. He had moments but the consistency has never developed and it's not for lack of opportunity. Ruggs, Jeudy and Smith, as they gain experience and familiarity with the game, are becoming better options than Foster. Sims is serviceable enough to keep in the rotation. Hurts DOES seem more in-sync with the young talent - and Ridley, obviously.
We may be starting to understand why Robert Foster has never broken through. Does he understand the offense and his assignments? Does he put forth the effort on every play, even when the ball is not coming to him? Has he shown a propensity for fumbling in practice?

No doubt if we get the ball to him in space that he's maybe the fastest guy on the team, but is he an overall good football player?
 

92tide

TideFans Legend
May 9, 2000
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East Point, Ga, USA
We may be starting to understand why Robert Foster has never broken through. Does he understand the offense and his assignments? Does he put forth the effort on every play, even when the ball is not coming to him? Has he shown a propensity for fumbling in practice?

No doubt if we get the ball to him in space that he's maybe the fastest guy on the team, but is he an overall good football player?
i've noticed him getting quite a few blocks
 

RobK

All-SEC
Aug 27, 2004
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Very selfishly as a fan, I would love to see a complete and thorough exhibition of what our offense can do...all the wrinkles, all the hidden gems in the playbook, and complete fulfillment of potential of our two-deep personnel in every game. That would be fun to watch and would answer most all of our questions when it comes to the offense.

But that isn't realistic, it isn't necessary to win, and it wouldn't be strategically smart. Given the fact that we've had large early leads in every game since FSU, there have been ample reasons to use our offensive snaps to learn, to establish tendencies that can be altered to deceive opponents down the line, and to attack with strength-on-strength or even weakness (ours)-on-strength (theirs). We can put our guys in challenging situations and still remain in control of these games for the most part. We don't need style points as long as we control our own destiny.

We are staring down the barrel of a very tough potential four-game stretch at the end of the season (Auburn, SECCG, and hopefully two playoff games after the break) that'll be harder overall than our closing four in the past few years. There is no need to show our full playbook or our full range of capabilities.
 

TomFromBama

Suspended
May 14, 2003
1,142
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0
Lower Alabama
Re: Opinions on our offense

Comments embedded.

Okay, I have few concerns about our offense this season.

1. Why does the playcalling seem different everytime Bo Scarbough comes in the game? Every time he gets the ball, he always seem go up the middle for 2-3 yards. With Harris, it's completely different?

Different backs with different skill sets = different play calls.


2. I noticed Robert Foster gave up on a play from Hurts when they were in red zone. It seems Foster looked disinterested at times. Anyone noticed that?

Bet the Coaches did!


3. Daboll is getting better each game with his playcalling, but he seems to have a moment or two in each game where he calls bad play or two.

Not every play is going to be a TD, and not every play is going to be successful. Sometimes the opponent's Defense executes better than our Offense on a particular play. Doesn't necessarily mean its a poor play selection.

For example - a dive play; a "simple" off-tackle run. One time its stuffed for no gain, another time it breaks open for a 75 yard TD. Was one a "Bad" call and the other "good"? Or was one executed better than the other?


4. At some point, when are we going to try and stretch the field with the passing to open up the running game? It's going to reach a point where our Running game won't work against Auburn, Ohio State and Clemson down the road.

Our coaches aren't in their "first Rodeo". We are #7 nationally in Rushing offense. Keep yer powder dry! Its going to be ok. :)

(And Just FWIW, its an open question whether we will see O$U Or Clempson this year.....


5. We haven't been targeting Tight Ends in last few games. What's going on? We need to get back to doing that.

I LOVE when we target TE's!!! But maybe the past couple defenses haven't set up as well for those particular plays? Remember, this OC, Dabol, comes from NE, a place where they call plays a lot like Nick Saban likes plays called - and that means taking whatever the Defense gives you. If that means throwing to the TE all night - that's great. If that means not throwing to the TE at all, that's fine too. We are Averaging over 40 pts.gm. Any time we score 40 points we are (Much more likely than not) also going to win the game.




6. Lack of touches by Sims and Foster is a concern for me, but Ruggs and Jeudy are stepping up bigger than Foster and Sims right now.

You answered your own question.


7. The OL gotta change... We are still inconsistent with our passing game because of them. I hope they make some changes soon.
Hopefully the OL will continue to improve. Last game was better than a week ago, but still not on the level we need them to be. Whether that's improvement, or just lower competition remains to be seen.
 

KrAzY3

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Jan 18, 2006
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Re: Opinions on our offense

I think it is really hard to figure out exactly where this offense is right now. Alabama's SoS is 25, so it isn't as though they have faced no real tests. The passing game is still a work in progress, Hurts has slipped in QBR but he's still top 10. I think more can be done in the passing game but it's hard to figure out why. Is it lack of development in some receivers, Hurts tentativeness to throw, vanilla play calling? I don't know.

The ironic thing though is this really is kind of an inverse of the Kiffin offense. People were yelling run the ball, well sometimes that's all Alabama does now. The result is both offenses were actually explosive, but neither are particularly consistent and that's the concern.

The one thing I hope for is continued development not just with the receivers, or Hurts, but with the play calling and pass protection as well. Sometimes it feels like they are on the cusp of the passing game catching up a bit to the running game. I know Saban usually says he wants a balanced attack, and I commented rather early that Daboll didn't seem to be doing that. One poster stated that they don't need to see the same number of plays, so much as the same number of yards. Well, Alabama has passed 160 times for 1,276 yards. Forget the massive disparity in attempts, that's a lot of missing passing yards (Hurts threw for 2,780 last year so he's well off that pace). They have run 324 times for 2,118 times. The concern I have is that if Alabama gets to a point that they have to pass, their under-utilization of the pass could come back to hurt them.
 
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TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,552
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Re: Opinions on our offense

The concern I have is that if Alabama gets to a point that they have to pass, their under-utilization of the pass could come back to hurt them.
If I had one small anxiety, that would be it, particularly after seeing it rear its head in the NCG. However, the question I posed after the game - was answered this year. Given the chance, Hurts can pass over the middle very adequately, thank you. It was the Kiffen offense. I don't think a team will ever beat us again by conceding the middle third of the field...
 

Intl.Aperture

All-American
Aug 12, 2015
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Re: Opinions on our offense

If I had one small anxiety, that would be it, particularly after seeing it rear its head in the NCG. However, the question I posed after the game - was answered this year. Given the chance, Hurts can pass over the middle very adequately, thank you. It was the Kiffen offense. I don't think a team will ever beat us again by conceding the middle third of the field...
That and I feel as though he is growing more as a passer this season than he did last year - which was a complaint voiced here and apparently from some within the program. He's a better passer now than he was when he trotted out against FSU and there's no reason that progress should stop. I expect him to be even better should we be blessed enough to make it into the post-season.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
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Re: Opinions on our offense

Well, I'd tell you what would be fun to see. If we've been sandbagging a little on offense with our passing game, I'd like to see it on full display this Saturday on THE THIRD SATURDAY IN OCTOBER (some of you youngsters might not even get that reference).

CNS, just go ahead and put the fear of the Lord in LSU, Auburn, Georgia and any playoff contender! Let them know it won't matter if they know it's coming because they won't be able to stop it!!!

About 600-700 yards of offense would be a beautiful sight to behold. About 70-0 and Butch can move on to his next job.:biggrin2:
 

theballguy

Hall of Fame
Nov 5, 2012
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Personally, I'm not a big believer or big critic in play calling.

To me, what's way more important is execution.

If we don't execute, the OC is going to be criticized harshly anyways.

If we execute, the call won't matter and the OC will seem like a genius.

Even as wacky as Kiffin's calls were at times and on ones where the play just went south, we just didn't execute. We didn't dominate the line and didn't execute the play as we should have. The ones where we *did* execute, Lane simply called a "good" play :)

To me, the play is 80% execution and 20% call selection.
 
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RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
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Re: Opinions on our offense

That and I feel as though he is growing more as a passer this season than he did last year - which was a complaint voiced here and apparently from some within the program. He's a better passer now than he was when he trotted out against FSU and there's no reason that progress should stop. I expect him to be even better should we be blessed enough to make it into the post-season.
I'm also interested to see if the increase in playing time for the freshman WRs helps him out in the passing game as the season progresses. No one is arguing with Foster's speed or Cam Sims size but these tf WRs look special.
 

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
20,852
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Tuscaloosa
Re: Opinions on our offense

Robert Foster is still one of the biggest and fastest guys in the WR corp. I think he's likely to still get looks because he's potentially a lethal WR if he starts coming down with catches.
 

NBF_Bama_Cavalry

All-American
Dec 2, 2002
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Titus, Al, US
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Re: Opinions on our offense

Well, I'd tell you what would be fun to see. If we've been sandbagging a little on offense with our passing game, I'd like to see it on full display this Saturday on THE THIRD SATURDAY IN OCTOBER (some of you youngsters might not even get that reference).

CNS, just go ahead and put the fear of the Lord in LSU, Auburn, Georgia and any playoff contender! Let them know it won't matter if they know it's coming because they won't be able to stop it!!!

About 600-700 yards of offense would be a beautiful sight to behold. About 70-0 and Butch can move on to his next job.:biggrin2:
I hope we beat Tennessee 7-6 by scoring on the last play and Botch gets a 10-year contract extension! :biggrin:

Not really...I hope it's 45-0 after the 1st quarter!
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
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Re: Opinions on our offense

I don't think we're hiding anything or sandbagging. We are continuing to add wrinkles and develop the offense but let's not be like most other fanbases who think their team is hiding something magical that once they run that play/formation it fixes everything. We aren't going to break out 5 WRs with an exotic passing scheme vs LSU or AU and pass for 500 yards. That's just not who we are. What we've seen of the offense is primarily what the offense is going to be this year plus a few formation wrinkles and hopefully the continued development of chemistry in the passing game..
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
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Re: Opinions on our offense

I don't think we're hiding anything or sandbagging. We are continuing to add wrinkles and develop the offense but let's not be like most other fanbases who think their team is hiding something magical that once they run that play/formation it fixes everything. We aren't going to break out 5 WRs with an exotic passing scheme vs LSU or AU and pass for 500 yards. That's just not who we are. What we've seen of the offense is primarily what the offense is going to be this year plus a few formation wrinkles and hopefully the continued development of chemistry in the passing game..
I was just messing around. I don't think we even have to add a "new wrinkle" this Saturday to beat down UT by a huge score.
 

Intl.Aperture

All-American
Aug 12, 2015
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Re: Opinions on our offense

I don't think we're hiding anything or sandbagging. We are continuing to add wrinkles and develop the offense but let's not be like most other fanbases who think their team is hiding something magical that once they run that play/formation it fixes everything. We aren't going to break out 5 WRs with an exotic passing scheme vs LSU or AU and pass for 500 yards. That's just not who we are. What we've seen of the offense is primarily what the offense is going to be this year plus a few formation wrinkles and hopefully the continued development of chemistry in the passing game..
The most razzle dazzle thing we've done all year is the pass back across the field to Josh Jacobs for a TD against Ole Miss. And frankly, any pass play drawn up by a drunk toddler would have worked against that defense. I'm sure we've got a few more wrinkles like that which can be used at opportune times. But most of the "wrinkles" or hidden plays will likely just be variations on plays we see all the time - so it may not even be readily apparent to the casual observer that we just unleashed a play never seen before.

If I'm not mistaken late season wrinkles are usually just base plays that have a small hiccup or fundamental change that punishes a defense for their film study. We like to run QB stretch plays to the right all year? Run it in the post season and now maybe its just a hybrid bootleg with 2 WRs running a crossing route or post...but it's rarely something like all 3 RB's lined up in the backfield behind Hurts so it looks like a giant "T" and then we snap the ball and Hurts turns around and bicycle kicks it to a decoy lineman playing as a tight end who pitches it backwards to Bo who pitches it to Damien who pitches it Jacobs who (SUPRIRSE!) pitches it to Nick Saban who dressed out at halftime and his doppelganger has been coaching the 2nd half just to sell this play!

Nah - it's usually pretty benign and is designed to just move a linebacker 5 feet from his normal spot.
 

teamplayer

Hall of Fame
Jul 31, 2001
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Re: Opinions on our offense

I think it is really hard to figure out exactly where this offense is right now. Alabama's SoS is 25, so it isn't as though they have faced no real tests. The passing game is still a work in progress, Hurts has slipped in QBR but he's still top 10. I think more can be done in the passing game but it's hard to figure out why. Is it lack of development in some receivers, Hurts tentativeness to throw, vanilla play calling? I don't know.

The ironic thing though is this really is kind of an inverse of the Kiffin offense. People were yelling run the ball, well sometimes that's all Alabama does now. The result is both offenses were actually explosive, but neither are particularly consistent and that's the concern.

The one thing I hope for is continued development not just with the receivers, or Hurts, but with the play calling and pass protection as well. Sometimes it feels like they are on the cusp of the passing game catching up a bit to the running game. I know Saban usually says he wants a balanced attack, and I commented rather early that Daboll didn't seem to be doing that. One poster stated that they don't need to see the same number of plays, so much as the same number of yards. Well, Alabama has passed 160 times for 1,276 yards. Forget the massive disparity in attempts, that's a lot of missing passing yards (Hurts threw for 2,780 last year so he's well off that pace). They have run 324 times for 2,118 times. The concern I have is that if Alabama gets to a point that they have to pass, their under-utilization of the pass could come back to hurt them.
These points are well stated. People yelled at Kiffin because he passed just to be passing it seemed. He is like Dan Mullen at MSU; they both like to show their "genius" level play calling ability when they would be better off just doing what works. I am very happy that we are a power running team again, but I also like us to be able to take advantage of mismatches in the passing game and keep defenses honest with the passing game. We clearly have better talent at receiver than most teams, and I want us to utilize the ability we have. However, we also have an abundance of talent at RB and should use that ability to control the line, the clock, and the game. Based on past situations, I think there will be a few teams who are able to limit our running game, and I want to be able to punish them with the pass until they back off the line. Then, we just pummel them into submission during the 4th quarter and collect another SEC and national title. That is my plan, and I hope Saban and crew can get it done.
 

BamaMark.

1st Team
Jun 21, 2012
535
183
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Re: Opinions on our offense

I think Jalen has improved quite a bit passing, but the inconsistency of the pass blocking is what concerns me if anything. When teams know we are passing, for instance 3rd and long, the blocking has not held up. In that regard, I don't think we are any better than we were last year unfortunately. When Jalen has time he has been very good.


If I had one small anxiety, that would be it, particularly after seeing it rear its head in the NCG. However, the question I posed after the game - was answered this year. Given the chance, Hurts can pass over the middle very adequately, thank you. It was the Kiffen offense. I don't think a team will ever beat us again by conceding the middle third of the field...
 

TomFromBama

Suspended
May 14, 2003
1,142
0
0
Lower Alabama
Re: Opinions on our offense

I don't think we're hiding anything or sandbagging. We are continuing to add wrinkles and develop the offense but let's not be like most other fanbases who think their team is hiding something magical that once they run that play/formation it fixes everything. We aren't going to break out 5 WRs with an exotic passing scheme vs LSU or AU and pass for 500 yards. That's just not who we are. What we've seen of the offense is primarily what the offense is going to be this year plus a few formation wrinkles and hopefully the continued development of chemistry in the passing game..
This ^^^ is pretty much where I am.

When you think about it - other than FRU and aTm, none of our games have been even particularly close, much less actually in doubt. Since the opening weekend, we've pretty much taken the "Foot off the Gas" in nearly every game, and in MOST games we've seen Profuse use of backups, often going well into the 3's and 4's.

NOT saying we are "Unbeatable"!!! NO ONE is Unbeatable!

Still.....

No, we haven't played "Murderers Row" - but we also havn't been playing ALL "Tomato Can" opponents either. Everyone wants to laugh at FRU, but I STILL maintain that a Heathy FRU would have been a legit Top-10 program this year and MIGHT have won the ACC. Again, Laugh if you want, but there's no question in my mind that with Francois healthy they Beat NC State (instead of losing by 6) and Beat Miami (instead of losing by 4) - and at 5-0 would EASILY be ranked in the top 6 or 7.

And much the Same deal for aTm if their Starting QB was healthy.

Yet, despite all that, playing TONS of reserves for TONS of minutes - allowing multiple "Garbage Time" scores at the end of games -
we stand here today, #9 Nationally in Scoring Offense, #2 Nationally in Scoring Defense.

and the scary part?

ALL the posters in this tread are RIGHT. This team - Especially this Offense CAN be better. :)
 

gtgilbert

All-American
Aug 12, 2011
3,168
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Re: Opinions on our offense

These points are well stated. People yelled at Kiffin because he passed just to be passing it seemed. He is like Dan Mullen at MSU; they both like to show their "genius" level play calling ability when they would be better off just doing what works. I am very happy that we are a power running team again, but I also like us to be able to take advantage of mismatches in the passing game and keep defenses honest with the passing game. We clearly have better talent at receiver than most teams, and I want us to utilize the ability we have. However, we also have an abundance of talent at RB and should use that ability to control the line, the clock, and the game. Based on past situations, I think there will be a few teams who are able to limit our running game, and I want to be able to punish them with the pass until they back off the line. Then, we just pummel them into submission during the 4th quarter and collect another SEC and national title. That is my plan, and I hope Saban and crew can get it done.
The biggest problem I had with Kiffin was that he relied to much on the big play for scoring. He seemed ok wasting plays to set up other plays to show his genius. Then he'd call the haymaker and we'd score on a huge play with just a few plays on a drive. We almost never sustained a long drive and controlled the game. We we're efficient. That puts tremendous stress on the defense because score or not, the drives are short and the D is back on the field without a lot of time to make adjustments and rest.
 

CRMSNtide

1st Team
Jul 4, 2011
345
73
52
If I'm going to criticize our offense, a few players have disappointed me.
R. Foster and Cam Sims, both are seniors, both talented and been in the program along time.
Neither one has developed very much, but I still hold out hope that they can put it togeather as we finish this season.
The young WR talent is really nice to have as we spread the ball around, lots of playmakers.

Overall, this offense is the best in the SEC and one of the strengths is we don't have to depend on one guy our two guys as we get a lot of players involved, Hurts can run, pass or put the ball in a teammates hands.....hard to stop.
 

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