Rich men and sexual harassment: a catch-all thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
13,177
287
Hooterville, Vir.
It's sad and unfortunate.
One thing I wish would get more attention is that if the victims come forward sooner, then serial harassers could be stopped sooner.
30 women coming forward to say that Harvey W harassed or assaulted them twenty years ago, will put the guy away, but two women saying something immediately after the event would have saved the next 28 from being victimized.
On the other hand, I have witnessed women receiving adverse counseling on poor job performance and react by alleging sexual harassment, I guess under the view that "if you tell me I'm not doing my job well, then I will make your life more difficult simply by alleging harassment." That has to be shown to be a wrong as well.
 
Last edited:

MattinBama

Hall of Fame
Jul 31, 2007
11,144
5,453
187
Bill Clinton's sexual predator issues were front and center all of 2016 (and literally, front and center at a debate).
I only remember Trump parading out Clinton's accusers in a cringy press conference but I'm sure there was a lot more of it that I missed, I spent the majority of 2016 avoiding most of politics/news until the embarrassment to the country train really got going.

Still doesn't obligate someone to mention every single person especially when adding an "etc" that covers those left out. If he had mentioned Clinton but not Weinstein the same gotcha stuff would have happened. If he had mentioned both Clinton and Weinstein the same gotcha stuff would have happened with Wiener and anyone else that could be pulled up.
 

MattinBama

Hall of Fame
Jul 31, 2007
11,144
5,453
187
30 women coming forward to say that Harvey W harassed or assaulted them twenty years ago, will put the guy away, but two women saying something immediately after the event would have saved the next 28 from being victimized.
And unfortunately when those first two women come forward they are often mocked and derided as liars and gold-diggers (it only took one page to start seeing some of that in this thread) thus ensuring that further women will be scared to step into the light and offer themselves up to being a victim twice when they're made fun of and not believed for what happened to them.

There are some women that will use this as a revenge tactic and media sensationalism is in part to blame for that being possible. Innocent until proven guilty is non-existent in today's world. Once you are accused you are guilty and even if the case is won (ala Bill Cosby), you are still forever branded. It needs to stop but it won't without a major overhaul to the interaction between the justice/media. Something more like Australia's system (in particular the sub judice part) would be a huge step forward: https://www.thenewsmanual.net/Resources/medialaw_in_australia_03.html
 

Displaced Bama Fan

Hall of Fame
Jun 5, 2000
23,344
39
167
Shiner, TX
Corey Feldman warned us about Hollywood "pigs" years ago. He even says it's the reason his friend and co-star, Corey Haim OD'd due to the abuse he and Feldman suffered as children. There are some extremely disgusting and disturbing individuals that "run" Hollywood and our country for that matter.

It sort of makes you wonder how true the rumors of Stanley Kubrick's death were as it pertained to exposing these secret societies and their sick rituals in Eyes Wide Shut.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

Hall of Fame
Jun 5, 2000
23,344
39
167
Shiner, TX
I only remember Trump parading out Clinton's accusers in a cringy press conference but I'm sure there was a lot more of it that I missed, I spent the majority of 2016 avoiding most of politics/news until the embarrassment to the country train really got going.

Still doesn't obligate someone to mention every single person especially when adding an "etc" that covers those left out. If he had mentioned Clinton but not Weinstein the same gotcha stuff would have happened. If he had mentioned both Clinton and Weinstein the same gotcha stuff would have happened with Wiener and anyone else that could be pulled up.
It's clear that Clinton, Weinstein, Epstein, Weiner, etc. are tied at the "hip." I wouldn't be surprised if O'Reilly was a frequent "guest" to Epstein's "fantasy" island in the Caribbean either.
 

MattinBama

Hall of Fame
Jul 31, 2007
11,144
5,453
187
It's clear that Clinton, Weinstein, Epstein, Weiner, etc. are tied at the "hip." I wouldn't be surprised if O'Reilly was a frequent "guest" to Epstein's "fantasy" island in the Caribbean either.
These types of predators often form clubs (whatever type of predatory endeavors they are pushing). It's amazing to me how they were able to do so very easily before the internet even.

There are a lot of people linked to Epstein if many of the allegations end up panning out.
 

LA4Bama

All-SEC
Jan 5, 2015
1,624
0
0
Los Angeles, CA
I only remember Trump parading out Clinton's accusers in a cringy press conference but I'm sure there was a lot more of it that I missed, I spent the majority of 2016 avoiding most of politics/news until the embarrassment to the country train really got going.

Still doesn't obligate someone to mention every single person especially when adding an "etc" that covers those left out. If he had mentioned Clinton but not Weinstein the same gotcha stuff would have happened. If he had mentioned both Clinton and Weinstein the same gotcha stuff would have happened with Wiener and anyone else that could be pulled up.
The issue has always haunted Hillary and it would have apart from Trump. People saw it as evidence of her cynical ambition that she protected Bill. But that speaks to the issue in the thread -- why powerful men get away with it. And why women don't come forward.

I didn't say anything about the rest of that stuff and I couldn't care less. I'm not sure why you keep harping on it.
 

MattinBama

Hall of Fame
Jul 31, 2007
11,144
5,453
187
I didn't say anything about the rest of that stuff and I couldn't care less. I'm not sure why you keep harping on it.
Because it's a discussion forum and I'm discussing things.

dis·cus·sion
dəˈskəSH(ə)n
noun
the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.
 

LA4Bama

All-SEC
Jan 5, 2015
1,624
0
0
Los Angeles, CA
It's sad and unfortunate.
One thing I wish would get more attention is that if the victims come forward sooner, then serial harassers could be stopped sooner.
30 women coming forward to say that Harvey W harassed or assaulted them twenty years ago, will put the guy away, but two women saying something immediately after the event would have saved the next 28 from being victimized.
On the other hand, I have witnessed women receiving adverse counseling on poor job performance and react by alleging sexual harassment, I guess under the view that if you tell me I'm not doing my job well, then I will make your life more difficult simply by alleging harassment. That has to be shown to be a wrong as well.
Unfortunately I don't think it works quite like that. The first two women coming forward have no evidence of a serial pattern. Their own lives would be far more damaged by making the accusation. The women who didn't come forward about Weinstein were rightly afraid they'd never be cast in a good role again. If they stay, Weinstein claims they consented. If they leave then "nothing happened". If their career is forestalled, proving it was retribution for not consenting to sex is nearly impossible apart from the serial pattern. If they sue and get a settlement, Weinstein is not stopped. If they discuss the facts after a settlement, they are liable to be sued themselves.
 
Last edited:

Displaced Bama Fan

Hall of Fame
Jun 5, 2000
23,344
39
167
Shiner, TX
These types of predators often form clubs (whatever type of predatory endeavors they are pushing). It's amazing to me how they were able to do so very easily before the internet even.

There are a lot of people linked to Epstein if many of the allegations end up panning out.
I would say in the same politically/financially as well. Democrats and Republicans at the highest levels are all the same. At our low level arguing about policy on the internet is really what they want. They want me to "hate" you for your beliefs. They want civil discourse. They want the division as they consolidate the power. It amazes me how quickly true issues get swept under the rug by the media so that we can focus on something as insignificant as a group of players kneeling. Yet, the media outrage and the President's twitter explosions propagate that. That always leads me to wonder, what is the left hand doing? What is it they don't want us to see?

We are sheep, whether we like it or not or how hard we try and fight the image. But, every time we argue some "policy" concern, it's what they want us to do.
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
13,177
287
Hooterville, Vir.
Unfortunately I don't think it works quite like that. The first two women coming forward have no evidence of a serial pattern. Their own lives would be far more damaged by making the accusation. The women who didn't come forward about Weinstein were rightly afraid they'd never be cast in a good role again. If they stay, Weinstein claims they consented. If they leave then "nothing happened". If their career is forestalled, proving it was retribution for not consenting to sex is nearly impossible apart from the serial pattern. If they sue and get a settlement, Weinstein is not stopped. If they discuss the facts after a settlement, they are liable to be sued themselves.
Yes, I know that this is difficult for the victims, but in deciding to keep quiet or not, the next victim(s) have to be considered as well. What is the count on the number of women who have now come forward to declare that HW harassed/assaulted them? 30? At what point to we have a critical mass to really bring into question what this guy is doing? 5? 10?
 

Jon

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2002
15,635
12,545
282
Atlanta 'Burbs
Yes, I know that this is difficult for the victims, but in deciding to keep quiet or not, the next victim(s) have to be considered as well. What is the count on the number of women who have now come forward to declare that HW harassed/assaulted them? 30? At what point to we have a critical mass to really bring into question what this guy is doing? 5? 10?
seems like that is a very different number depending on circumstance and the person in question. For some, like Kobe Bryant it was one. For others like Bill Cosby it has been dozens and he seemed to escape it multiple times, recall that if not for Hannibal Burress coming out and saying essentially "why did everyone forget about Cosby" when the allegations were already out there Cos may have skated again. Look at Trump, he has plainly admitted to being a sexual predator both on Access Hollywood's tape and in appearances on the Howard Stern show and has had multiple women accuse him of exactly the behavior he has admitted to and half of y'all think it is all made up, it's quite mind boggling to witness
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,765
6,532
187
seems like that is a very different number depending on circumstance and the person in question. For some, like Kobe Bryant it was one. For others like Bill Cosby it has been dozens and he seemed to escape it multiple times, recall that if not for Hannibal Burress coming out and saying essentially "why did everyone forget about Cosby" when the allegations were already out there Cos may have skated again. Look at Trump, he has plainly admitted to being a sexual predator both on Access Hollywood's tape and in appearances on the Howard Stern show and has had multiple women accuse him of exactly the behavior he has admitted to and half of y'all think it is all made up, it's quite mind boggling to witness
Not saying anyone on here does this but, many of the same people who immediately doubt or aggressively question any women who comes forward also ask why women don't come forward. It's pretty insane.
 

CajunCrimson

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast
Staff member
Mar 13, 2001
26,511
20,444
337
Breaux Bridge, La
Yes, I know that this is difficult for the victims, but in deciding to keep quiet or not, the next victim(s) have to be considered as well. What is the count on the number of women who have now come forward to declare that HW harassed/assaulted them? 30? At what point to we have a critical mass to really bring into question what this guy is doing? 5? 10?
How many never came forward because of how Flowers, Lewinski, et al were treated?
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
How many never came forward because of how Flowers, Lewinski, et al were treated?
A good argument if one wishes to ignore the fact that neither Flowers nor Lewinsky ever said it was NOT consensual.....

The unique problem that Bill Clinton presents is that he appears to have been BOTH a stud and a scum at the same time. Flowers, the former Miss Arkansas, Mondale's late daughter (Eleanor?), and Lewinsky were (to my knowledge) all consensual affairs.

Paula Jones, Juannita Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey??? Predatory behavior by Bill.
 

CajunCrimson

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast
Staff member
Mar 13, 2001
26,511
20,444
337
Breaux Bridge, La
A good argument if one wishes to ignore the fact that neither Flowers nor Lewinsky ever said it was NOT consensual.....

The unique problem that Bill Clinton presents is that he appears to have been BOTH a stud and a scum at the same time. Flowers, the former Miss Arkansas, Mondale's late daughter (Eleanor?), and Lewinsky were (to my knowledge) all consensual affairs.

Paula Jones, Juannita Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey??? Predatory behavior by Bill.
Those 3 were in the "et al" category -- lol
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
Ok, here I go (knowing I'm going to regret this).

The problem with the accuser(s) here is the same problem we once had when baseball decided they weren't going to put black players in the Hall of Fame from the Negro Leagues because "they didn't play ten years in the majors." I mean, talk about a Catch-22......they COULDN'T play and we excluded them to now that we broke the color barrier, we're going to exclude the black players of that era (most notably Josh Gibson) because (are you ready?) "they don't meet the qualifications."

If a woman comes forth, she usually has no idea if there are others. If she's a nobody and he's a somebody, the accusation is "she's after money." If she's a somebody and does it, she's told she's a "big girl" who ought to be able to handle those beastly men. And if she's a gal who poses in a swimsuit, well, good luck getting taken seriously since you're already sort of selling sex anyway (I'm NOT saying this is RIGHT - I'm saying it is reality).

If she keeps quiet and finds other women who later come forth and THEN she says something, the same people who said she was after money/whatever then turn around and blast her for 'why did she wait all these years.'


Consider James Carville's infamous statement about dragging money through a trailer park. Now set aside your political biases - does that not sound EXACTLY (I mean word for word) like something Trump himself would say? Yes, it most certainly does.



You have to remember that a lot of us lived through the Clarence Thomas-Anita Hill fiasco. Amazingly enough, the VERY same press organs that in October 1991 were telling me that Anita Hill's accusations should be believed because she was a woman were the same ones shredding Gennifer Flowers just three months later when she said she'd had an affair with Bill Clinton. Better yet, she had tapes that had the word that got Trump in trouble on them, but nowhere did Bill ever actually come right out and admit they'd done it (it was later reported that Flowers's sudden increase in calls to Bill right after he announced he was running might be recorded as blackmail so he was to not say anything incriminating.....wonder how they knew that?). Clinton audaciously attacked the tapes as incomplete and then turned right around and apologized to Mario Cuomo for alleging he was "family" (why, if the tapes weren't real?). But back to Anita/Clarence.

The whole problem with that thing even with the senators was this......virtually every single case of sexual harassment you will ever see has MULTIPLE accusations (e.g. there is a pathology involved).....and in Thomas's case there were no other accusers. There was "another woman" named Angela Wright, who testified privately that Thomas acted obnoxious, but she also made it very clear he did NOT sexually harass her. And Thomas never had another accuser until about ten days before the 2016 election, when all of a sudden she revealed an incident from 1999 where Thomas "got a handful." Maybe he did - it's not so much she waited as it is the suddenly convenient timing that arouses at least a bit of my suspicion.

But more to the point......(finally).....

A lot of us watched the press really NOT do its job for so many years (Clinton) now suddenly want to all pretend they're Facebook level attorneys. The morning after Kathleen Willey came out and said that Slick Willie asked her to feel his free willy, she was mercilessly attacked, and the press never made the point "but she has no reason to lie at all." The Clintonian response was to send out a female spokesperson to argue in circles rhetorically with the old "but if what she's saying is true then why did she send a letter to Clinton saying she was a fan" blah blah blah.


The point being......for years we had a press all too complicit in this whole thing. If the destruction of Ailes/O'Reilly and eventually Weinstein and others doing the same wretched stuff makes sexual assault/etc less common and less acceptable, that's a long-term GOOD for society. Things like social media - as horrible as some things are on it - have ratcheted up the stakes to where people can even the odds a little bit.


One final note....as far as this whole "but there are female bosses who harass," that is undeniably true. However - it's about like saying that "see, there's an occasional woman who is a serial killer (Aileen Wurnos) or a pedophile." I mean, SURE, it happens, but it's what, 9-1 men? 99-1 men?

I saw way too many metoo's for my comfort last week.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.