The Catch-22 that explains Alabama's O-Line, passing game issues

JustNeedMe81 said:

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/i...-22_that_explains_ala.html#incart_river_index

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Nothing really revolutionary there. We want to Pass (with long developing routes) but can't because the blocking stinks.

It's been the problem all season and the only remedy is to get the ball out faster with quicker routes. We've done it at times but don't stick with it for some reason?

That article though...lol...I mean it's like saying water is wet.

This article just depresses me, How I long for Hurts to start burning these teams for putting 8 men in the box.

The article title is absurd. There is no Catch-22. Lots of teams do this quite well with lesser athletes at every position. But you can't wait until you get to these types of games, with these types of defenses, to run these plays. The offense fails to execute on these plays because they have not run them enough. But that is beside the point now. You are where you are. You just need to execute a little better (not a lot, just a little), and you need your defense to keep playing like they hate the other team.

Honestly, I'd like to see a little more hateful play by your o-line. They don't seem angry at all when they get beat on plays. This group may have more talent than the group that played in 2011-2012, but that o-line was hateful.

B1GTide said:

The article title is absurd. There is no Catch-22. Lots of teams do this quite well with lesser athletes at every position. But you can't wait until you get to these types of games, with these types of defenses, to run these plays. The offense fails to execute on these plays because they have not run them enough. But that is beside the point now. You are where you are. You just need to execute a little better (not a lot, just a little), and you need your defense to keep playing like they hate the other team.

Honestly, I'd like to see a little more hateful play by your o-line. They don't seem angry at all when they get beat on plays. This group may have more talent than the group that played in 2011-2012, but that o-line was hateful.

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1000% agree on that 1st part. It's half infuriating half exasperating for me to watch.

Every week the fan used go-to excuse is 'we are just being vanilla' or 'sandbagging'....lol...WHY?? You need to run your best/most efficient plays and perfect them as you go.

The WR drops have hurt us a LOT but most of the time we seemingly handicap ourselves either.....purposely(which I can't fathom) or from just flat-out BAD playbook designs/calls that are not beneficial to our personnel being successful (which I also can't fathom).

The last Bolded point above really REALLY bothers me. It's been 'Gut-Check' time for that group for weeks.... and I'm using a friendlier term than I would like there. One or our resident Mods has even be outspoken about it a few games in the game-threads.

It's a noticeable thing....to an almost embarrassing degree. I wish we had a guy on the field that would challenge them vocally.

tusks_n_raider said:

the only remedy is to get the ball out faster with quicker routes.

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I think that gets to the biggest knock on Daboll so far. Not that he's drawing up bad plays, but that he seems somewhat set in his ways. Obviously he's coming up with a good gameplan, that's why Alabama has been able to score so much and overall put up so many yards. The problem is when Alabama plays a team where they can't simply impose their will, Alabama's offense thus far has actually been alarmingly pedestrian.

crimsonaudio said:

Sorry, but this begs the question - what offense doesn't look pedestrian when they can't impose their will on the defense?

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Seems like every defense has attempted to do the same thing - overload the box and blitz to stop the run. The only ones to have success are the ones with great talent.

When that's the case, how's the offense expected to impose its will?


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RTR91 said:

Seems like every defense has attempted to do the same thing - overload the box and blitz to stop the run. The only ones to have success are the ones with great talent.

When that's the case, how's the offense expected to impose its will?


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You mean five 5and4 star recruits cannot impose their will on 7 4 and 5 star recruits?

I think the underlying unsaid answer is....'make an in-game adjustment' to the entire gameplan if need be based on what the opposing defense is doing to stop you.

If they sell out stacking the box and blitzing then eat their tails up with Slants, Quick Hitch/Curls, WR Screens (Bubbles/Tunnels), Smash routes, Shallow Crosses, In/Outs, RB Shoots, Bang-8's.......man just ANY of those.....get rid of it bang-bang in less than 2-3 seconds and get them to back off the LOS.

But when we face teams that we can't just line up against and dominate 'no matter what' our offense is relatively kept in check.

We are really really stubborn about slamming our heads into a wall trying to force something to work that's not working. We run right into the teeth of defenders or go with LONG developing pass plays. It's madness for me to watch most weeks.

We get away with all that more times than not because we always have a #1-2 Defense. We can be conservative and keep slamming our heads and still win....maybe by two scores even.

But if we would take what the defense gives us and exploit certain areas of weakness we would DESTROY even the 'Great Talented' opponents.

I don't think people realize just how far the Talent gap is between us and every other team in the SEC.... over AU, UGA, and even LSU.

uafanataum said:

You mean five 5and4 star recruits cannot impose their will on 7 4 and 5 star recruits?

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That isn't what is happening - Alabama brings in one or 2 TEs to help on every play, plus the RB helps when he doesn't get the ball. At least one safety stays back on defense. Which means that you have a man on a man when they are running man defense. You should be able to block that pretty consistently.

B1GTide said:

That isn't what is happening - Alabama brings in one or 2 TEs to help on every play, plus the RB helps when he doesn't get the ball. At least one safety stays back on defense. Which means that you have a man on a man when they are running man defense. You should be able to block that pretty consistently.

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When I watched the LSU game I was pretty emotional and hyped so I need to research the game to be sure (probably Monday) but I think any time Alabama had that many players blocking Hurts got plenty of time to throw and it was more of an issue of dropped balls or Hurts bailing on the play to quickly. I do remember 2 plays though where Bama had the right number of players, and the correct scheme as far as WR routes to exploit the defense but the OLine blocked incorrectly. That's fine because that is correctable. It was just to blockers blocking the same player which a little practice will help. But they are not a bad oline.

In my favorite games we have played with a 'MAD ON'.
Our Offense punishes the Defenders.
Our Defenders punish their Offense.

I'm a fan of real physical football. Gadget play football is for Auburn.
I believe in running the ball down their throats.

While we got a bunch of men dinged up in the LSU game, it was a tough physical contest.

crimsonaudio said:

Sorry, but this begs the question - what offense doesn't look pedestrian when they can't impose their will on the defense?

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I suppose I would have to clarify that a bit. Physically Alabama has just completely over-matched a lot of the opponents, and if the plays were well executed they would have put up a ton of points with just about any fundamentally sound offense. Daboll has really shone in the ability to completely crush teams that one would expect Alabama to crush. Once Daboll starts dismantling a defense he seems pretty good at continuing the barrage. Kiffin on the other hand would get cute when it was completely unnecessary, the type of thing that would send Saban into a rage, and he could sabotage the offense on occasion no matter who the opponent was. With Kiffin you had people screaming to just run the ball sometimes. With Daboll there is a concern that the offense might be trying to do the same basic things even when they're not working.

Of course, there could be some degree of sandbagging and running a vanilla offense intentionally. That does beg the question other posters asked though, like why you would do that with only a two score lead.

RTR91 said:

Seems like every defense has attempted to do the same thing - overload the box and blitz to stop the run. The only ones to have success are the ones with great talent.

When that's the case, how's the offense expected to impose its will?

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By doing something different?

TIDE-HSV said:

I don't think Daboll is free to call the plays he wants to call...

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I've seen you allude to that before, and I defer to your knowledge on the subject. If Daboll/Hurts are just being held back, I just hope that they are prepared when they need to be unleashed. Daboll, Hurts, and Saban are far better at what they do that I could ever imagine being so I do trust that there is a plan. But I can't help but wish we saw Alabama trying a few more things throughout the season, but if that's by design so be it.

I suppose my entire sentiments on the subject are shaped by Daboll being an unproven commodity in college and my expectations to see Hurts used more as a passer (instead he's been used less). I couldn't help but hope we would see more passing and a greater variety of passes. But I don't see practice, so one has to assume they've been working on all this stuff throughout the year and for what ever reason haven't been using as much of the playbook this year. It's just unsettling from an outsider perspective.

This is the same problem that cost us the CG last season and gave us a couple of close calls along the way. What is disappointing is that we have had a year to fix it, yet it is still the problem. Since we have the best coaches in the business I am assuming it can't be fixed and we will have to live with it. I am prepared and won't get nearly as upset when we have consecutive three and outs when we need first downs. We can expect a miracle overnight or just hunker down and accept it. I am hunkering down. Roll Tide.

I'd love to see someone fired up like Chance Warmack was during the SECCG against Georgia on the last drive. He seemed to be in beast mode more times than not.

HMM said:

I'd love to see someone fired up like Chance Warmack was during the SECCG against Georgia on the last drive. He seemed to be in beast mode more times than not.

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It was DJ Fluker who started stomping and pumping his fist - Gary D noted (one of his great strengths) and we ground it out from there.