QB Competition 2018

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
187
I agree, but this is Coach Saban's M.O. and I would have shocked beyond belief if Tua had came in without Jalen getting injured.
To be fair, almost every great head coach follows this pattern - a belief in the players is part of what makes them successful. Spurrier is the only great head coach that I can remember who would pull his QB in the middle of a game for poor play - and he did it frequently.
 

RiffTide

BamaNation Citizen
Dec 30, 2015
27
0
0
To be fair, almost every great head coach follows this pattern - a belief in the players is part of what makes them successful. Spurrier is the only great head coach that I can remember who would pull his QB in the middle of a game for poor play - and he did it frequently.
Go read about the performance of Joe Namath in the Orange Bowl and you will see a coach who was trying to win a game. The desire to win the game was placed above all other considerations.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
187
Go read about the performance of Joe Namath in the Orange Bowl and you will see a coach who was trying to win a game. The desire to win the game was placed above all other considerations.
Sorry, before my time. If you have to go back 52 years for an example, I think that my point is pretty valid
 

RammerJammer15

All-American
Sep 9, 2012
3,380
1,936
187
You bench Jalen for Tua, let's say Tua struggles, then what? Oh, start Austin Johnson?

Jalen imo hasn't done anything to cause himself to get benched. GMac had bad games, was anyone calling for his job? No, but Tua will have his time and he will be great!
 

CrimsonNagus

Hall of Fame
Jun 6, 2007
8,469
6,182
212
45
Montgomery, Alabama, United States
Jalen is not the problem. Daboll is the problem. He’s clueless on how to get the ball to our playmakers. Jalen could have been just as good as Stidham at the quick outside throws or slants. Daboll just refused to even try them until the game was out of hand. We were having a lot of success running to the outside so, what does Daboll do, he stops calling those plays. Daboll is not a good OC IMO.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,555
18,298
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
I think more important than a qb competition is for the staff (mainly CNS) to make a decision on what we want to be as an offense and stop trying to be a hybrid of conflicting offensive styles. Next, I think it's long time to start seriously evaluating the development of our offensive linemen. It's been said several times but we've regressed from having a dominating OL to an OL that is inconsistent in performance and lacking the ability to physically dominate.

Until these two things get addressed, I don't think worrying about who is going to play QB even matters.
 

Saban4Ever

All-American
Sep 27, 2016
3,768
2,913
187
Cobb County GA
I hope Jalen does improve over the summer, and that Daboll also adds some more short quick passes into the playbook just in case we need them. It has worked for LSU and Auburn. Why don't our coaches notice? Are they stubborn? They are smart enough to know. It's just like the Clemson game.. no offense adjustment... abandon the run when it works. Ugh!

I do hope Tua stays because I really like him just like I do Jalen. We also need another decent QB to recruit because I don't think Mac Jones will do much. Sure wish we could still get Trevor Lawerence or Justin Fields.
 

TiderMan

All-SEC
Feb 5, 2005
1,360
113
87
55
Moody, AL.
The main thing is what kind of offensive team do we want to be? Do we want to be a wide open - spread team - that relies on short passes, quick screens, zone read running plays, and try and get our WR's and RB's out in space on the edges? Or do we want to be pro-style offense with power running game, drop back passing with play action design?

I think if it is the spread - we go with Jalen. If it is the pro-style we go with Tua.

However, we must be committed to it - whatever way we go. We were a variation of both this season with no real identity. We didn't and couldn't decide what we wanted to be. We could spread and run the ball but our passing game was more pro-style. There were no easy pass completions with our offense this year - no quick outs, very little screens, very few jet sweeps/pop passes, etc. Jalen became easy to defend because our coaches were forcing him to make all the plays and not utilizing the talent around him. We didn't play to Jalen strengths but instead his weaknesses and tried to make him a better downfield passer - instead of letting him get the ball out quickly to the edges with a short to intermediate passing game that allows our talented receivers and RB's to make plays.
 

Tide&True

All-American
Sep 24, 2004
4,618
2,187
182
Murfreesboro, TN
Maybe Jalen has been making up for a lot of other deficiencies this year. As you get into better competition those deficiencies get exposed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,765
6,532
187
Jalen will have issues on 3rd down and 5+ regardless of the play caller. He had issues last year with both Sark and Kiffin calling plays. Can he improve that? Yes. But I think its time to give Tua a shot going into next year. I'd even be ok with a 2 QB system because I think that Jalen brings a lot to the table. But I'd be very disappointed if the coaches don't at least give Tua a shot to win the job.

Saban has always said the best player will play, so if it turns out Tua is better then why not play him? If Jalen wins the job? So be it. We will roll with him.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,555
18,298
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
Jalen will have issues on 3rd down and 5+ regardless of the play caller. He had issues last year with both Sark and Kiffin calling plays. Can he improve that? Yes. But I think its time to give Tua a shot going into next year. I'd even be ok with a 2 QB system because I think that Jalen brings a lot to the table. But I'd be very disappointed if the coaches don't at least give Tua a shot to win the job.

Saban has always said the best player will play, so if it turns out Tua is better then why not play him? If Jalen wins the job? So be it. We will roll with him.
"The best player" is relative to what type offense is being run. Which as I've mentioned above, the staff needs to make a hard-line decision on what type offense they want to run and commit to it. There is absolutely no doubt Tua has more passing ability than Hurts. He has natural passing traits that you simply cannot teach. He is very instinctive as a passer. His ceiling as a passer is waaaay higher than Hurts'. So if the staff wants to go with a more pro style offense in which the quarterback passes the ball and the running backs run the ball. I think Tua is the "best fit" for the position. However, if the staff wants a more 2017 "Clemson" style offense then Tua is no longer the "best fit". I used Clemson as an example because it was the last game I watched last night and their quarterback situation is very similar to ours. Their QB 2017 is a better athlete/runner than passer, and since Watson left. Their offense has taken a step backwards from it's passing efficiency. But, if you look at what they've done, it is what we will ultimately have to do if the staff wants to get the best out of Hurts. They don't ask their current qb to do the things Watson did in the passing game. If the staff wants to get the best out of Hurts they need to stop asking him to do things he simply isn't good at and more than likely will never be better than average at.

I trust Saban is smart enough that when the season is over and he has time to assess the entire season from an offensive perspective. He will see that mix-matching offensive styles sounds good in theory but is very limited in application, and will make hard line decision to go with one or the other. Or at least that's what I hope he does.
 

tide power fan

All-SEC
Nov 26, 2011
1,424
20
57
Okay I don't believe there will be a QB competition, Jalen will be the QB for the next couple of years, Coach believes in Explosive plays, maybe that is why he goes for the long pass play.
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,765
6,532
187
"The best player" is relative to what type offense is being run. Which as I've mentioned above, the staff needs to make a hard-line decision on what type offense they want to run and commit to it. There is absolutely no doubt Tua has more passing ability than Hurts. He has natural passing traits that you simply cannot teach. He is very instinctive as a passer. His ceiling as a passer is waaaay higher than Hurts'. So if the staff wants to go with a more pro style offense in which the quarterback passes the ball and the running backs run the ball. I think Tua is the "best fit" for the position. However, if the staff wants a more 2017 "Clemson" style offense then Tua is no longer the "best fit". I used Clemson as an example because it was the last game I watched last night and their quarterback situation is very similar to ours. Their QB 2017 is a better athlete/runner than passer, and since Watson left. Their offense has taken a step backwards from it's passing efficiency. But, if you look at what they've done, it is what we will ultimately have to do if the staff wants to get the best out of Hurts. They don't ask their current qb to do the things Watson did in the passing game. If the staff wants to get the best out of Hurts they need to stop asking him to do things he simply isn't good at and more than likely will never be better than average at.

I trust Saban is smart enough that when the season is over and he has time to assess the entire season from an offensive perspective. He will see that mix-matching offensive styles sounds good in theory but is very limited in application, and will make hard line decision to go with one or the other. Or at least that's what I hope he does.
I don't think you can say any of that definitively.

Its also not just about the QB but the strengths and weakness of the entire team. Are we just going to waste the talentwe have at WR by making them run short stuff all the time?

And I can guarantee you that an offense that can run and pass is a bigger threat than one that can't pass consistently. That's part of what makes Kelly Bryant a more limited player than Watson. Is anyone here actually as afraid of this Clemson offense as we were of last years?

Tua can run too btw so I don't even think its a guarantee that Jalen would be better in any offense except a pure running georgia state triple option style offense.

Again, Jalen is going to have problems on third and long and third and medium regardless of the offense IMO.


This also sounds like an argument for Lane Kiffins offense from last year or at least more similar to that offense. Wasn't the whole complaint that we didn't try to develop Jalen in the passing game? And now suddenly its we shouldn't try to make him do things he can't?
 
Last edited:

CaliforniaTide

All-American
Aug 9, 2006
3,618
14
57
Huntsville, AL
Maybe Jalen has been making up for a lot of other deficiencies this year. As you get into better competition those deficiencies get exposed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think Alabama's struggles against the elite teams has been masked by a poor SEC the last two years. Certainly helps explain the night/day difference in play.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
187
I trust Saban is smart enough that when the season is over and he has time to assess the entire season from an offensive perspective. He will see that mix-matching offensive styles sounds good in theory but is very limited in application, and will make hard line decision to go with one or the other. Or at least that's what I hope he does.
I have seen a lot of "poor execution" comments from Saban over the years - too many for me to assume that he will make a change without the issue being forced. He didn't change his defenses until he was forced to accept that his old style would no longer get it done against spread offenses that go fast. But we can hope.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,555
18,298
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
I don't think you can say any of that definitively.

*Its also not just about the QB but the strengths and weakness of the entire team. Are we just going to waste the talentwe have at WR by making them run short stuff all the time?

And I can guarantee you that an offense that can run and pass is a bigger threat than one that can't pass consistently. That's part of what makes Kelly Bryant a more limited player than Watson. Is anyone here actually as afraid of this Clemson offense as we were of last years?

**Tua can run too btw so I don't even think its a guarantee that Jalen would be better in any offense except a pure running georgia state triple option style offense.

Again, Jalen is going to have problems on third and long and third and medium regardless of the offense IMO.
*You were specifically addressing the quarterback position so I'm discussing it from that position. I completely understand other areas of the team play into it as well.

**Just as Tua's natural passing ability is obviously better than Hurts'. Hurts' pure athleticism is obviously better than Tua's. Tua's running ability is effective in spots. But no way he would be better than Hurts if QB runs were a consistent and primary component of our offense. Outside of Hurts' superior overall athleticism, Tua's size and smallish frame wouldn't last through an entire season if QB runs were a major component of the offense.
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,765
6,532
187
*You were specifically addressing the quarterback position so I'm discussing it from that position. I completely understand other areas of the team play into it as well.

**Just as Tua's natural passing ability is obviously better than Hurts'. Hurts' pure athleticism is obviously better than Tua's. Tua's running ability is effective in spots. But no way he would be better than Hurts if QB runs were a consistent and primary component of our offense. Outside of Hurts' superior overall athleticism, Tua's size and smallish frame wouldn't last through an entire season if QB runs were a major component of the offense.
I wasn't aware we were making a decision about a QB in a vacuum for fun?


I think I'm going to bow out of this. I see the other side I just strongly disagree. I don't think I'm going to change anyones mind. I hope Tua gets a shot and I hope the best QB gets the job. Don't care who it is as long as both get a shot.
 
Last edited:

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,555
18,298
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
I have seen a lot of "poor execution" comments from Saban over the years - too many for me to assume that he will make a change without the issue being forced. He didn't change his defenses until he was forced to accept that his old style would no longer get it done against spread offenses that go fast. But we can hope.
I know he meets with underclassmen who are draft eligible to discuss whether he feels they need to go or stay. I wonder if he allows the players to give feedback on their thoughts of the offense. For example, when talking to Bo and/or D Harris, is it likely that in their decision process they express to CNS the lack of opportunities to run the ball is playing into their decision to comeback or not? If so, you would think that would at least plant the seed in Saban's mind that "Hey, I may need to think about this and how it impacts future RB's we recruit." Because don't think for one second HS running backs don't see how our RB's are used and incorporate that into their decision making process.
 

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.