Bama vs Clemson part 3

Maxbama · Dec 11, 2017

CrimsonForce said:
I saw the same segment and I pretty much agree with him. I have no problem with someone picking Clemson and citing that as the reason. This is make or break time for Daboll. He doesn't have to produce 50 points but we must show some competence on offense. If the plays are there to be made but Jalen misses a pass, the WR drops a ball or the RB fumbles then that's on the players. But, having a month to prepare, I expect the offense to show a little more creativity and flow than what we saw against LSU, MSU and AU..

I'm not agreeing that Dabol was the problem. I think execution of the plays were the problem. Either in the read by the QB, the blocking of the OL, the routes by the receivers, etc..... I think everyone should be cautious about saying the play calling was the issue. Coach Saban even said you can always look at play calling (if it works it was great, if it didn't it was a bad call) but, it is the execution that really defines the success or failure of a play call.
I think the issue is really getting the attention of the leader of the Offense. I think Jalen will be told in no uncertain terms - execute or Tua will go in. Late reads, holding the ball, leaving the pocket too soon, are all on the QB. He either fixes it or sits. That, I think is the bottom line.

Maxbama · Dec 11, 2017

As an additional thought occurred to me after my reply to CrimsonForce, I will add the following. Does anyone not think that JH gets a detailed critique (just like everyone else) during the film study each week? I'm sure it is pointed out in great detail where he missed reads, held onto the ball instead of giving it to the RB, or left the pocket too soon? I'm sure not just the coaches have pointed that out to him. Very frustrating for a lineman to try and block for a QB who is supposed to be in the pocket or step up in the pocket only to realize he isn't there. A lot of frustration everywhere. I don't think JH does anything intentionally (except for the six-gun crap or brushing off his chest - oh to be young again) but I believe he will respond to the Auburn game. He is a great player and deserves to be given a chance. But, if he can't overcome those issues that have been pointed out in the QB thread, then I believe Coach Saban will put Tua in the game.

TiderJack · Dec 11, 2017

Maxbama said:
As an additional thought occurred to me after my reply to CrimsonForce, I will add the following. Does anyone not think that JH gets a detailed critique (just like everyone else) during the film study each week? I'm sure it is pointed out in great detail where he missed reads, held onto the ball instead of giving it to the RB, or left the pocket too soon? I'm sure not just the coaches have pointed that out to him. Very frustrating for a lineman to try and block for a QB who is supposed to be in the pocket or step up in the pocket only to realize he isn't there. A lot of frustration everywhere. I don't think JH does anything intentionally (except for the six-gun crap or brushing off his chest - oh to be young again) but I believe he will respond to the Auburn game. He is a great player and deserves to be given a chance. But, if he can't overcome those issues that have been pointed out in the QB thread, then I believe Coach Saban will put Tua in the game.

It is also very good when the QB scrambles when the OL is about to give up a sack so it works both ways with a dual threat. I am hoping Jalen can play a good solid game, not a great game, and if he does we will win.

B1GTide · Dec 11, 2017

Removing post - my apologies

FF4bama · Dec 11, 2017

Maxbama said:
As an additional thought occurred to me after my reply to CrimsonForce, I will add the following. Does anyone not think that JH gets a detailed critique (just like everyone else) during the film study each week? I'm sure it is pointed out in great detail where he missed reads, held onto the ball instead of giving it to the RB, or left the pocket too soon? I'm sure not just the coaches have pointed that out to him. Very frustrating for a lineman to try and block for a QB who is supposed to be in the pocket or step up in the pocket only to realize he isn't there. A lot of frustration everywhere. I don't think JH does anything intentionally (except for the six-gun crap or brushing off his chest - oh to be young again) but I believe he will respond to the Auburn game. He is a great player and deserves to be given a chance. But, if he can't overcome those issues that have been pointed out in the QB thread, then I believe Coach Saban will put Tua in the game.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Based on what I've seen of Coach Saban's QB policy over the years, unless we're up by 3 touchdowns in the fourth quarter or (heaven forbid) Jalen gets hurt, I don't think Tua will see the field. OTOH, I don't think we'll need Tua for this one. Consider: Jalen had his worst game in 2 years against Auburn. By the time we play Clemson he'll have had over a month to simmer in that fact. I think he'll work harder, study more film, and do everything within his considerable ability to prepare for the game. I'm betting Jalen comes out firing on all cylinders and has a breakout game against Clemson.

Bamabuzzard · Dec 11, 2017

Maxbama said:
As an additional thought occurred to me after my reply to CrimsonForce, I will add the following. Does anyone not think that JH gets a detailed critique (just like everyone else) during the film study each week? I'm sure it is pointed out in great detail where he missed reads, held onto the ball instead of giving it to the RB, or left the pocket too soon? I'm sure not just the coaches have pointed that out to him. Very frustrating for a lineman to try and block for a QB who is supposed to be in the pocket or step up in the pocket only to realize he isn't there. A lot of frustration everywhere. I don't think JH does anything intentionally (except for the six-gun crap or brushing off his chest - oh to be young again) but I believe he will respond to the Auburn game. He is a great player and deserves to be given a chance. But, if he can't overcome those issues that have been pointed out in the QB thread, then I believe Coach Saban will put Tua in the game.

My hitting coach in college told me I wasn't identifying the hard outside slider quick enough to lay off of it and that was the reason I kept swinging at that pitch with two strikes (rather than taking it). The problem wasn't that I didn't know what I was doing wrong. The problem was I couldn't make the adjustment. No matter how hard I tried or how much I practiced. Where as our right fielder was able to literally see the seams rotating on that same 88/89 mph slider and lay off the pitch. Everyone reaches the peak of their abilities. Some, that peak comes in little league, others in high school, others in JUCO and others on the FBS level.

I truly hope Jalen can make an adjustment. But when it comes to an athlete's ability to process fast moving information at a rapid speed. There's only a very small element of that in which the player can do things to improve it. The rest is simply God given and can't be coached or improved upon with practice. That falls into the category of "you either got it or you don't." It appears to me (my untrained football eye) that Jalen is struggling processing the speed of the game when we play the better defenses. It maybe why against weaker defenses he was able to consistently go through his reads, and hit the right WR. Compared to when we played the better defenses there was an obvious struggle to replicate the same ability. Hence him tucking it and running or getting the ball out late.

CrimsonForce · Dec 12, 2017

Maxbama said:
I'm not agreeing that Dabol was the problem. I think execution of the plays were the problem. Either in the read by the QB, the blocking of the OL, the routes by the receivers, etc..... I think everyone should be cautious about saying the play calling was the issue. Coach Saban even said you can always look at play calling (if it works it was great, if it didn't it was a bad call) but, it is the execution that really defines the success or failure of a play call.
I think the issue is really getting the attention of the leader of the Offense. I think Jalen will be told in no uncertain terms - execute or Tua will go in. Late reads, holding the ball, leaving the pocket too soon, are all on the QB. He either fixes it or sits. That, I think is the bottom line.

I don't disagree with you per say but here's my problem with this line of thinking. Yes, there were WRs who were open and plays to be made had some of the plays been executed better. But why did we not commit to running the ball considering we were averaging 8 YPC? When you're having that much success on the ground it's a much higher reward / lower risk proposition than throwing the ball. So many things have to work almost perfectly on passing plays. The path of least resistance to victory in the iron bowl game this year and the Clemson game last year was committing to the ground attack and getting the ball to the most talented group on our roster which is the RB position. Just doesn't make sense that Damien Harris had 6 touches in the iron bowl and that he didn't get carries last year in the Clemson game after Bo got hurt. So, yes, I agree with your premise that if any play is executed perfectly it'll work but IMO we've been considerably more consistent at executing running plays than passing plays..

JustNeedMe81 · Dec 12, 2017

I'm not agreeing that Dabol was the problem. I think execution of the plays were the problem. Either in the read by the QB, the blocking of the OL, the routes by the receivers, etc..... I think everyone should be cautious about saying the play calling was the issue. Coach Saban even said you can always look at play calling (if it works it was great, if it didn't it was a bad call) but, it is the execution that really defines the success or failure of a play call. I think the issue is really getting the attention of the leader of the Offense. I think Jalen will be told in no uncertain terms - execute or Tua will go in. Late reads, holding the ball, leaving the pocket too soon, are all on the QB. He either fixes it or sits. That, I think is the bottom line.

Jalen and Calvin are the leader on the offense. The problem is that both hasn't always got along with each other and it showed on the field, and because of that, It caused somewhat a problem in the locker room. Hopefully, both are helping each other out and figure out how to do better on the field.

I've maintained that Not everything is on Jalen. Some of the blame should go to Daboll. He is in his first year working with college students who is a football players, so we have to keep that in mind that he is learning on the job by trial and errors. I seriously Doubt coaches will tell Jalen to execute or Tua will go in. That's not how it should work. We all know at this point Tua will play two series or more, depending on how he does.

You do not want to replace the QB with a freshmen who has gained lot of experience this year, but still isn't ready to replace Jalen in middle of the playoff. The pressure is high, expectations is high... Saban will not do that to Tua... He will find a way to ease Tua in the games during playoff, so he can get valuable experience for possible another trip next year.

B1GTide · Dec 12, 2017

Removing post - my apologies

Maxbama · Dec 12, 2017

CrimsonForce said:
I don't disagree with you per say but here's my problem with this line of thinking. Yes, there were WRs who were open and plays to be made had some of the plays been executed better. But why did we not commit to running the ball considering we were averaging 8 YPC? When you're having that much success on the ground it's a much higher reward / lower risk proposition than throwing the ball. So many things have to work almost perfectly on passing plays. The path of least resistance to victory in the iron bowl game this year and the Clemson game last year was committing to the ground attack and getting the ball to the most talented group on our roster which is the RB position. Just doesn't make sense that Damien Harris had 6 touches in the iron bowl and that he didn't get carries last year in the Clemson game after Bo got hurt. So, yes, I agree with your premise that if any play is executed perfectly it'll work but IMO we've been considerably more consistent at executing running plays than passing plays..

To keep the running game going, the OC will call passes that are designed to keep the defense off balance. When you call one of those plays, but it is not executed or is defended, the offense winds up behind the chains. Now, you try and execute plays designed to try and pick up 8 yards instead of 3. Remember the route where the receiver came up just short? Remember the perfect tackle on Bo? Those were 3rd down plays that should have moved the chains. Sometimes it is those simple little plays that stop momentum.
Saying that you are going to run every play and make them stop the run won't work. They will stop the run. Execution is the key. You have to pass to set up the run and you have to run to set up the pass. But, you have to execute either way. I think our team is going to come out and execute on all levels against Clemson. I think we win this game and make a statement that Bama is still here and we win our next Championship. Roll Tide.

CrimsonForce · Dec 12, 2017

B1GTide said:
Post reported. Have a nice day.

:biggrin:

TIDE-HSV · Dec 12, 2017

OK, time to back it off on both sides. There's no need in this...

CrimsonForce · Dec 12, 2017

Maxbama said:
To keep the running game going, the OC will call passes that are designed to keep the defense off balance. When you call one of those plays, but it is not executed or is defended, the offense winds up behind the chains. Now, you try and execute plays designed to try and pick up 8 yards instead of 3. Remember the route where the receiver came up just short? Remember the perfect tackle on Bo? Those were 3rd down plays that should have moved the chains. Sometimes it is those simple little plays that stop momentum.
Saying that you are going to run every play and make them stop the run won't work. They will stop the run. Execution is the key. You have to pass to set up the run and you have to run to set up the pass. But, you have to execute either way. I think our team is going to come out and execute on all levels against Clemson. I think we win this game and make a statement that Bama is still here and we win our next Championship. Roll Tide.

Damien Harris or Josh Jacobs would've picked up the first down and then some on that play. Bo just hasn't been right this year for whatever reason. Maybe he isn't (or won't be) what he was before the injury. Bo's only really getting yards if the play is blocked perfectly. He seems to have lost his elusiveness. I agree with you about the balance IRT play calling. It just doesn't make sense for Damien to only get 6 carries when he's averaging 8 YPC. Hard to say the running game wouldn't have worked when we never really committed to it..

Nolan · Dec 12, 2017

We will win if we can improve on 3rd downs, offense and defense. That's so important in games like this, which is sure to be close.

bamanix · Dec 12, 2017

I was totally dismayed the way bama played at auburn. I realize there were shortages with linebackers, but, we performed bad in all aspects of the game, coaching, qb, off line, def line, secondary. I found the offense was once again stagnant. we have one receiver in ridley, and no
one else is capable of getting open or catch the ball. once again we have to keep tight ends in to block. I think smith is very capable of getting open. why no short passes when there is a rush?
why no passing to the rbs.? team really looked lost. no excuse, this game, with being at full strength.
time for coaches and off line, and qb to step up.

JTBama · Dec 12, 2017

bamanix said:
I was totally dismayed the way bama played at auburn. I realize there were shortages with linebackers, but, we performed bad in all aspects of the game, coaching, qb, off line, def line, secondary. I found the offense was once again stagnant. we have one receiver in ridley, and no
one else is capable of getting open or catch the ball. once again we have to keep tight ends in to block. I think smith is very capable of getting open. why no short passes when there is a rush?
why no passing to the rbs.? team really looked lost. no excuse, this game, with being at full strength.
time for coaches and off line, and qb to step up.

I'm not so sure though that the issue is receivers getting open. I think we have and you can even hear the commentators point out that "so and so was wide open down field" . This could be a number of things. One was pointed out in another thread about does Jalen have only one read and that's it? Or....is Jalen locking on to Ridley and then taking off? I think we do have quality receivers and rewatching the games numerous times this year...we do have separation . As far as drops , yeahFoster did have some but I think for the most part they are pretty capable. I think patience and going through your progressions is a talent....but distribution will go along way in developing sync and rhythm to an offense. Time will certainly tell and of course there may be huge improvement in the playoffs. I'm certainly hoping that's the case.

RT27 · Dec 12, 2017

JTBama said:
I'm not so sure though that the issue is receivers getting open. I think we have and you can even hear the commentators point out that "so and so was wide open down field" . This could be a number of things. One was pointed out in another thread about does Jalen have only one read and that's it? Or....is Jalen locking on to Ridley and then taking off? I think we do have quality receivers and rewatching the games numerous times this year...we do have separation . As far as drops , yeahFoster did have some but I think for the most part they are pretty capable. I think patience and going through your progressions is a talent....but distribution will go along way in developing sync and rhythm to an offense. Time will certainly tell and of course there may be huge improvement in the playoffs. I'm certainly hoping that's the case.

Patience comes from having time to show it. If the rush gets in fast, patience is out the window. Also on the team getting in synch, that also requires a rhythm, and if defenses break that rhythm it is hard to execute plays. TIME is always key, time to pass, time to develope a play, and time on the clock. We need to control TIME in game. Long sustained drives, to keep their offense on the bench and let our defense stay fresh. Our QB and RB's need time to do their job. And when our D is on the field we must not allow them time, we must break their rhythm. Make them rush passes, make them cut back and scramble for every yard. TIME, in one way or another is key. We need time, and we need to take it away from them.

TIDE-HSV · Dec 12, 2017

RT27 said:
Patience comes from having time to show it. If the rush gets in fast, patience is out the window. Also on the team getting in synch, that also requires a rhythm, and if defenses break that rhythm it is hard to execute plays. TIME is always key, time to pass, time to develope a play, and time on the clock. We need to control TIME in game. Long sustained drives, to keep their offense on the bench and let our defense stay fresh. Our QB and RB's need time to do their job. And when our D is on the field we must not allow them time, we must break their rhythm. Make them rush passes, make them cut back and scramble for every yard. TIME, in one way or another is key. We need time, and we need to take it away from them.

It is true that the OL missed some blocks. That's going to happen with a front seven like AU's. However, most of the time, the pocket held long enough, if the pocket had been managed properly and the ball had come out on time. FWIW, the OL feel that they were being expected to hold blocks too long. They have a point...

JTBama · Dec 12, 2017

RT27 said:
patience comes from having time to have it. if the rush gets in fast patience is out the window. Also on the team getting in synch, that also requires a rhythm, and if defenses break that rhythm it is hard to execute plays. TIME is always key, time to pass, time to develope a play, and time on the clock. We need to control TIME in game. Long sustained drives, to keep their offense on the bench and let our defense stay fresh. Our QB and RB's need time to do their job. And when our D is on the field we must not allow them time, we must break their rhythm. make them rush passes, make them cut back and scramble for every yard. TIME, in one way or another is key. We need time, and we need to take it away from them.

I don't think the fault is necessarily with the oline and pass protection breakdown. Any oline will have breakdowns in a game and no one will fault a qb for that. That doesn't affect the distribution pattern . I was referring to an above post that stated we do not have open receivers other than Ridley. I don't believe that to be the case. I don't think defenses can really break a rhythm if you haven't established one to begin with. Defenses will go after what they see in the film...if you're targeting number 3 the majority of the time...then you're going to have to spread it around to give them something else to think about.I don't have much concern about our defense going into the playoffs, it's our offense sustaining drives and converting on third down. You can have the best defense in college football but if they are on the field too long, they're going to run down.

B1GTide · Dec 12, 2017

TIDE-HSV said:
FWIW, the OL feel that they were being expected to hold blocks too long. They have a point...

Yeah, I can absolutely see that against Auburn. The GA game plan in the SECCG had Fromm throwing quick hitters and they worked very well, and Fromm is less mature as QB than Jalen. Fromm and Smart learned from their first game (as did their entire defense :biggrin

.

I am hoping for the same type of learning curve from Jalen and Alabama when you play Clemson.

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