Mom died in 1993, but her daughter kept cashing her SocSec checks for 24 years

Tidewater · Dec 13, 2017

Stories like this are why I doubt the efficacy of socialism in an American context. I doubt Americans have the temperament to make it work.

Mom died in 1993, but her daughter kept cashing her Social Security checks for 24 years
This piece of work probably did not believe she was stealing from her neighbors, she was taking advantage of "the government," not realizing that the government has no money but what it takes from citizens, her neighbors.

That and "the government" declined to exercise sound stewardship of the money it had taken from the citizens.
24 years? Really? Nobody laid eyes on this woman for 24 years? If she started drawing money in 1986, she was probably born in 1920 (or thereabouts). That would have made her 97 this year, actuarial tables would indicate that it is unlikely she is still alive, so, the Missouri nickname was in order here, or should have been.

Between rapacious citizens and lazy incompetent government administrators, the taxpayers are out $298,168.20 and the victims, the taxpayers, will never see much of that money back.

day-day · Dec 13, 2017

If you are saying you want improvements made in the operations of the social security system, welfare or any kind of assistance program, then you are taking money from the poor, trying to starve grandma, taking food from children's mouths, giving money to the rich, etc..

Bodhisattva · Dec 13, 2017

A big problem with entitlements is that they create an entitlement mentality.

RollTARDIS · Dec 13, 2017

I see we are ramping up the narrative to make cuts to Social Security and other “entitlements” to pay for the massive deficit this tax bill is about to create and add to. What she did is a crime and should not be taken lightly, but rich guys are about to deduct that much from their taxes for their jets pretty soon. Forgive me for not caring or thinking what she did is common or representative of the behavior of others at all.

gtowntide · Dec 13, 2017

Bodhisattva said:
A big problem with entitlements is that they create an entitlement mentality.

Social Security is not an entitlement.

jthomas666 · Dec 13, 2017

gtowntide said:
Social Security is not an entitlement.

"Forget it, he's on a roll..."

rgw · Dec 13, 2017

300k is life changing money for most of us but in the grand context it is almost nothing.

How much of Huntsville's own Patriot Missile will that buy?

Bodhisattva · Dec 13, 2017

gtowntide said:
Social Security is not an entitlement.

The daughter in the OP sure treats it as such.

Tidewater · Dec 14, 2017

RollTARDIS said:
I see we are ramping up the narrative to make cuts to Social Security and other “entitlements” to pay for the massive deficit this tax bill is about to create and add to.

US Debt $20,599,000,000,000 (before the passage of any currently debated change to tax law).

Tidewater · Dec 14, 2017

rgw said:
300k is life changing money for most of us but in the grand context it is almost nothing.

How much of Huntsville's own Patriot Missile will that buy?

.

Bamaro · Dec 14, 2017

RollTARDIS said:
I see we are ramping up the narrative to make cuts to Social Security and other “entitlements” to pay for the massive deficit this tax bill is about to create and add to. What she did is a crime and should not be taken lightly, but rich guys are about to deduct that much from their taxes for their jets pretty soon. Forgive me for not caring or thinking what she did is common or representative of the behavior of others at all.

I dont think the majority party in congress really cares about that anymore. They're just fine lying to their voters about caring.

Tidewater · Dec 14, 2017

Look at this for a minute.

The APR that the Federal government pays on debt already assumed peaked in 1980 at 14%.
Right now the Federal government is financing debt at about 2% APR, 1/7 of the rate it paid in 1980. That means the Federal government spent $266 billion just to pay the interest on the debt already contracted, making it the 4th largest budget item.
The average over the period 1970-2017 was probably around 7%, or 3½ times what we are paying now. If the interest rate the Federal government paid for servicing debt went back up to historical average for this period, then servicing already-contracted Federal debt will become the number two budget item at around $931 billion. If the interest rate goes to the historical high rate of 14%, then merely servicing the already-existing debt would cost $1.862 trillion or 45% of the total 2017 Federal budget. 45% of the budget just to tread water fiscally. In such a case, we are facing the collapse of the Federal government and possibly the end of the United States as a country.
And the Federal government does not dictate what rate it pays to service debt. The market does. If that does not scare the crap out of you, you are not paying attention.

Displaced Bama Fan · Dec 14, 2017

gtowntide said:
Social Security is not an entitlement.

Put in 20,000, get $120,000, that's not an entitlement?

But, in this case, the daughter was riding the gravy train on her mom's social security check, so yes, that was an "entitlement" in her eyes.

rgw · Dec 14, 2017

Tidewater said:
.

I'd rather ask for responsibility to be taken for our horrible interventionist foreign policy direction we've employed over the last half century or more that has exploded our debt than shake my fists over 300k in social security fraud but that's just me.

rgw · Dec 14, 2017

Welfare/social security fraud is statistically insignificant on the end user side. The biggest forms of fraud have tended to start from within the bureaucracy due to poorly designed institutions with lacking oversight and command&control infrastructure than from people outside the system trying to leach of it. There are problems with the American welfare system but the answer isn't for us to effectively start killing folks due to scrapping the whole system.

Well unless of course you realize that we're all heading towards ecohell and wealth accumulation and a lil' passive genocide is a good thing if you're on the right side of the line when the famines and inhospitable environmental changes come.

uafanataum · Dec 14, 2017

Tidewater said:
Look at this for a minute.

The APR that the Federal government pays on debt already assumed peaked in 1980 at 14%.
Right now the Federal government is financing debt at about 2% APR, 1/7 of the rate it paid in 1980. That means the Federal government spent $266 billion just to pay the interest on the debt already contracted, making it the 4th largest budget item.
The average over the period 1970-2017 was probably around 7%, or 3½ times what we are paying now. If the interest rate the Federal government paid for servicing debt went back up to historical average for this period, then servicing already-contracted Federal debt will become the number two budget item at around $931 billion. If the interest rate goes to the historical high rate of 14%, then merely servicing the already-existing debt would cost $1.862 trillion or 45% of the total 2017 Federal budget. 45% of the budget just to tread water fiscally. In such a case, we are facing the collapse of the Federal government and possibly the end of the United States as a country.
And the Federal government does not dictate what rate it pays to service debt. The market does. If that does not scare the crap out of you, you are not paying attention.

Well it's a good thing the U.S. government combined with the U.S. controlled stock markets are some of the strongest economic forces in the world. Also, the few other countries with strong enough economic pull to actually affect the global economy in a big way all have an interest in keeping the U.S. economy afloat. I do not foresee the interest rates increasing too much anytime soon.

uafanataum · Dec 14, 2017

rgw said:
I'd rather ask for responsibility to be taken for our horrible interventionist foreign policy direction we've employed over the last half century or more that has exploded our debt than shake my fists over 300k in social security fraud but that's just me.

We could ask for the government to take responsibility for both you know. Maybe, we could ask the government to begin to be good stewards of any money they take away from the public and give to another cause.

rgw · Dec 14, 2017

Well that is like putting your finger over a pin sized hole of a boat taking on water when you've got a canon ball sized hole right next to you. Our military budget is the biggest waste in our entire budget. We spend tons of money on iterative improvements to the same crap we've had since the 1950s and it all doesn't matter because it is being built like we're gonna fight another WWII when we couldn't even begin to predict what WWIII will look like. Hell, the stuff is so electronic-based now that we'll probably just get owned by EPM tech when a real world power bows up on us instead of these ....ant countries we could've rolled over with the same stuff we fought with in 1945 if need be. My conclusion is that our military spending is mainly about propping up places like Huntsville in each state that is the darling for some senator's pork barrel.

4Q Basket Case · Dec 14, 2017

Bamaro said:
I dont think the majority party in congress really cares about that anymore. They're just fine lying to their voters about caring.

"The party out of power is the party of strict construction," is an old saw. I don't know who said it first, but I'm sure Tidewater could tell us.

We can add to that, "The party out of power is the party worried about the national debt."

When the Dems were the majority, they spent like drunk sailors. Now that the GOP is the majority, they do the same.

Both do it for the same reason: they're buying votes in hopes of perpetuating their majority.

Today, it's the GOP. When the worm turns (and it will, maybe soon), the Dems will forget all about fiscal responsibility, and really quickly set about the business of paying off their constituency.

For the budget and national debt as a whole, there's not a [borrowed] dime's worth of difference between the two. Only difference is who's getting the largesse.

uafanataum · Dec 14, 2017

rgw said:
Well that is like putting your finger over a pin sized hole of a boat taking on water when you've got a canon ball sized hole right next to you. Our military budget is the biggest waste in our entire budget. We spend tons of money on iterative improvements to the same crap we've had since the 1950s and it all doesn't matter because it is being built like we're gonna fight another WWII when we couldn't even begin to predict what WWIII will look like. Hell, the stuff is so electronic-based now that we'll probably just get owned by EPM tech when a real world power bows up on us instead of these ....ant countries we could've rolled over with the same stuff we fought with in 1945 if need be. My conclusion is that our military spending is mainly about propping up places like Huntsville in each state that is the darling for some senator's pork barrel.

2016 military budget was about 630 billion. The total federal deficit was 544billion. I think most people on here are smart enough to realize you cannot reduce the military budget enough to eliminate the deficit. Though I do agree that all of these pet projects should be looked at critically and eliminated if it's not critical to the mission. Another thing to consider is if a senator were to propose a cut to say a CIVILLIAN research company that does research for military technology then they would be blasted on the news of trying to cut the military. They would claim that senator hates soldiers, etc. I think they should separate the 2 budgets of the military so people can distinguish between cuts to civilian companies and say, the marine corps.

Mom died in 1993, but her daughter kept cashing her SocSec checks for 24 years

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