Beating Bama with Hurts at QB

derek4tide said:

I just want to see Hurts throw the ball away while being chased out of the pocket and not running backwards 8 yards only to run out of bounds. Is that asking too much?[emoji848]

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Apparently.


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IMALOYAL1 said:

Jalen needs to take ownership of the offense. Sometimes I'd like to see him angry if a receiver drops a pass, doesn't turn up field on 4th to get the 1st down, a lineman or running-back misses his assignment.
He's been a starter for two years. This is his chance to LEAD the offensive players around him to pick it up a notch and not be denied. There are times when a calm, laid back, always under control attitude is not what's needed from the offensive leader. It may be time to put his smoking pistols in their holster and start grabbing a facemask. Accept no less than 110% from those around him. Idon't think I can watch if he calmly steps out of bounds for a nine yard loss, without me throwing a fit.

Some guys are born with it. I can overlook it as a true freshman, but not from a 25 game starter. He doesn't have to be the star, but he must be the leader. At this point in his career he better reach deep and find it or another alpha will take it from him, and he'll not get it back. -

I'm starting to get fired up. It's building. I hope he's got it in him.:biga:

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^^^ I like it! I completely agree. Calm and cool during game play is great, but I do want to see Jalen get more fired up, whether losing or winning. Sometimes it would be nice to see a little more emotion from him. But, in the end, I want us to simply win! RTR!

JustNeedMe81 said:

Twitter is a great way to follow the news. It's not just for children, it's for adults as well. We have celebrities, reporters,athletes, activism, people of all age that participate on twitter for many reasons. News are being released faster on twitter than anywhere else. I really think that anyone can use the twitter for the right reason.

There is nothing wrong with following players on social media, as long you do not contact them directly about something stupid.

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Next thing we know you will be trying to get us to invest in cryptocurrency. :wink:

I have taken an unscientific sample of 27 different games. The results say it’s hard to beat Hurts at Alabama. One opponent even reported that they had to use illegal screens known as pick plays to get over the hump. Surely that won’t work again, especially with their star QB now in the NFL...

RollTARDIS said:

I have taken an unscientific sample of 27 different games. The results say it’s hard to beat Hurts at Alabama. One opponent even reported that they had to use illegal screens known as pick plays to get over the hump. Surely that won’t work again, especially with their star QB now in the NFL...

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With all the talent we have, it's hard to beat Alabama, even with Hurts in the way.

In Hurts' 27 career games, he's really only played 6 teams who could've beaten Alabama in my opinion: 2016 TAMU, 2016 LSU, 2016 Washington, 2016 Clemson, 2017 Florida State (w/ Francois of course), and 2017 Auburn. Vanderbilt and Tennessee of the last few seasons are not our peers and can mostly be thrown out as any meaningful comparison. Of those 6 games, he did not play well as a quarterback in any of them but he did make some huge runs that were critical in three of them in 2016. Notice that all the big runs came in 2016 because it shows that defenses that can cope with our talent have decided to make Hurts throw short and on time while in the pocket. When he rolls out, they're prioritizing taking away his ability to tuck and run because they don't think he can make an accurate throw on the run anyway.


I expect more of the same in the upcoming Sugar Bowl because I have my doubts Hurts will have reformed himself into a QB playing QB instead of an ATH playing QB over a month. We need to be able to run on any down for effective yards (and explosive yards occasionally) and score on defense and special teams. We haven't had many non-offensive scores this year so maybe we're due for a big output in the next two games?

IMALOYAL1 said:

Jalen needs to take ownership of the offense. Sometimes I'd like to see him angry if a receiver drops a pass, doesn't turn up field on 4th to get the 1st down, a lineman or running-back misses his assignment.
He's been a starter for two years. This is his chance to LEAD the offensive players around him to pick it up a notch and not be denied. There are times when a calm, laid back, always under control attitude is not what's needed from the offensive leader. It may be time to put his smoking pistols in their holster and start grabbing a facemask. Accept no less than 110% from those around him. Idon't think I can watch if he calmly steps out of bounds for a nine yard loss, without me throwing a fit.

Some guys are born with it. I can overlook it as a true freshman, but not from a 25 game starter. He doesn't have to be the star, but he must be the leader. At this point in his career he better reach deep and find it or another alpha will take it from him, and he'll not get it back. -

I'm starting to get fired up. It's building. I hope he's got it in him.:biga:

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Here's the thing IMO: I think Hurts cool, calmness doesn't look like leadership. Leaders tend to me more vocal. And then when Jalen spoke up about "I'm driving the bus" after MSU he might have been trying to be more vocal in his leadership (trying to give him credit) but it looked and sounded alot like a guy who was tooting his own horn. And it was about this time that we started to hear there was unrest on the team because Hurts was keeping the ball and running on plays when their was supposed to be a read to a running back or pass to a receiver.

If Jalen can correct his physical shortcominngs with his technique and going thru progressions, it seems he's got to learn how to lead with his words and actions in a more team friendly way.

rgw said:

In Hurts' 27 career games, he's really only played 6 teams who could've beaten Alabama in my opinion: 2016 TAMU, 2016 LSU, 2016 Washington, 2016 Clemson, 2017 Florida State (w/ Francois of course), and 2017 Auburn. Vanderbilt and Tennessee of the last few seasons are not our peers and can mostly be thrown out as any meaningful comparison. Of those 6 games, he did not play well as a quarterback in any of them but he did make some huge runs that were critical in three of them in 2016. Notice that all the big runs came in 2016 because it shows that defenses that can cope with our talent have decided to make Hurts throw short and on time while in the pocket. When he rolls out, they're prioritizing taking away his ability to tuck and run because they don't think he can make an accurate throw on the run anyway.


I expect more of the same in the upcoming Sugar Bowl because I have my doubts Hurts will have reformed himself into a QB playing QB instead of an ATH playing QB over a month. We need to be able to run on any down for effective yards (and explosive yards occasionally) and score on defense and special teams. We haven't had many non-offensive scores this year so maybe we're due for a big output in the next two games?

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Great post! People say stats are often taken out of context, but looking at the games we could have won with Mac Jones at QB and throwing them out is probably the best way to consider Jalen at QB.

So in looking at those six games, Jalen, as QB, has a modest 66% winning percentage. Unfortunatley, one might argue we won the other 4 in spite of his below average play.

As for Clemson, I think we can only hope that Jalen can complete a few meaningful 3rd down passes to keep the chains moving. I'd like to see us throw some 50/50 long balls when it's 3rd and long and of course we've got to run the ball effectively.

I think our defense giving us some points may be the "extra budge" we might need against Clemson. If we got a "NOT" in this game it'll be huge!!!

There is just a problem in this sport - even if we played 12 power conference teams - where the closer you get to the top the bigger percentage of games you play where you've practically won before getting off the bus. In the NFL, the Pats and Steelers could lose to a mediocre to bad team on a given Sunday. It isn't universally true because just look at this season (Ohio State falling to Iowa, Clemson falling to Syracuse) but in general the great teams are only going to lose to the other half-dozen to dozen great teams. If this was a professional job instead of a part-time student job, the elite programs would probably never drop one to teams like '17 Iowa or Syracuse.

BamaMoon said:

Great post! People say stats are often taken out of context, but looking at the games we could have won with Mac Jones at QB and throwing them out is probably the best way to consider Jalen at QB.

So in looking at those six games, Jalen, as QB, has a modest 66% winning percentage. Unfortunatley, one might argue we won the other 4 in spite of his below average play.

As for Clemson, I think we can only hope that Jalen can complete a few meaningful 3rd down passes to keep the chains moving. I'd like to see us throw some 50/50 long balls when it's 3rd and long and of course we've got to run the ball effectively.

I think our defense giving us some points may be the "extra budge" we might need against Clemson. If we got a "NOT" in this game it'll be huge!!!

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Interesting.... good perspective to look at.

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Moro Creek said:

With all the talent we have, it's hard to beat Alabama, even with Hurts in the way.

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Hurts is the starter and wearing the crimson and white so his problems are Alabama's problems. I am a dispassionate type of prognosticator who will say the hard truth when it doesn't comport with my rooting interest BUT Hurts is a part of the team and it is entirely unfair to characterize him as debilitating factor. We've won national titles with noodle arms (McElroy) and strong-armed boneheads (Coker). We've had our best offensive season in school history with an ex-tailback as the starting quarterback of a prolific passing offense (Sims). Hurts has limitations and it is the millions of dollars put into staff who should be doing all they can to accentuate Hurts' strengths and mesh it with the talent around him.

If Hurts is in the way of this team's success then it is the staff's fault not the young man's.

rgw said:

Hurts is the starter and wearing the crimson and white so his problems are Alabama's problems. I am a dispassionate type of prognosticator who will say the hard truth when it doesn't comport with my rooting interest BUT Hurts is a part of the team and it is entirely unfair to characterize him as debilitating factor. We've won national titles with noodle arms (McElroy) and strong-armed boneheads (Coker). We've had our best offensive season in school history with an ex-tailback as the starting quarterback of a prolific passing offense (Sims). Hurts has limitations and it is the millions of dollars put into staff who should be doing all they can to accentuate Hurts' strengths and mesh it with the talent around him.

If Hurts is in the way of this team's success then it is the staff's fault not the young man's.

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Calling Coker a "Bonehead" is a little harsh. Maybe he made a Boneheaded mistake from time to time, but he was dynamite in the postseason and tougher than a 2 dollar steak.

STONECOLDSABAN said:

Calling Coker a "Bonehead" is a little harsh. Maybe he made a Boneheaded mistake from time to time, but he was dynamite in the postseason and tougher than a 2 dollar steak.

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The first 2/3 of that regular season was pretty awful. Basically the offense was shifted to manage around him through the SECCG because Henry was on a heater. You are 100% right about the playoffs though. He was a hot quarterback for two games but even then he had an awful first half against Clemson where he was holding the ball way longer than any QB's internal clock would dictate. Good OCing dialed up some beautiful, wide-open throws to OJ Howard that got him dialed back in during the 2nd half.

But that really highlights my point: good coordinators realize what they've got and can shift gears to accentuate their strong suit. We realized that Coker was prone to 2-3 infuriating throws into coverage and holding the ball way too long if you drop back to pass too much. We put that whole season on Henry's back at some point in 2015. I believe after the Arkansas game where we ought to have won by 30+ but Coker made a ton of bad decisions that kept the game close into the 4th quarter. Kiffin had the good sense to realize that talent mix was: Heisman caliber rarity of a tailback who could take 40 carries like it was 10 touches, a freshman WR who could burn people, and a strong-armed but error prone quarterback. He stopped putting a bunch on Coker's plate and put it on Henry's capable shoulders instead.

rgw said:

The first 2/3 of that regular season was pretty awful. Basically the offense was shifted to manage around him through the SECCG because Henry was on a heater. You are 100% right about the playoffs though. He was a hot quarterback for two games but even then he had an awful first half against Clemson where he was holding the ball way longer than any QB's internal clock would dictate. Good OCing dialed up some beautiful, wide-open throws to OJ Howard that got him dialed back in during the 2nd half.

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I don't know, I remember him doing pretty well in the Georgia game and showed so much grit in the A&M game (granted his passing was not good in that game). He was kind of reckless in the ole miss game but almost bring us back to win it. I thought he played well in the iron bowl and the sec title game. I am not saying he was an all world qb but I would love to have him right now. (that's not a slap at Jalen I just wish would had the real vertical threat that Coker was when he was on his game).

rgw said:

But that really highlights my point: good coordinators realize what they've got and can shift gears to accentuate their strong suit. We realized that Coker was prone to 2-3 infuriating throws into coverage and holding the ball way too long if you drop back to pass too much. We put that whole season on Henry's back at some point in 2015. I believe after the Arkansas game where we ought to have won by 30+ but Coker made a ton of bad decisions that kept the game close into the 4th quarter. Kiffin had the good sense to realize that talent mix was: Heisman caliber rarity of a tailback who could take 40 carries like it was 10 touches, a freshman WR who could burn people, and a strong-armed but error prone quarterback. He stopped putting a bunch on Coker's plate and put it on Henry's capable shoulders instead.

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Can't argue with that....actually now that you mention it. Its crazy to think we haven't geared the offense towards Damien Harris the way we did with Derrick Henry. Harris wouldn't have even needed as many touches because running back depth is much stronger than it was in 2015.

I have been pretty critical of Hurts on here but I have to defend this whole "leadership" criticism of him. There are a ton of different types of leaders at QB and other positions in the NFL and College. There isn't a one size fits all deal. Being calm and cool doesn't make you less of a leader and I suspect most of the alleged locker room issues spawn more from his play than his personality.

Just beating Hurts is as hard of an obstacle as there has been in college football since he won our starting job at QB

rgw said:

Hurts is the starter and wearing the crimson and white so his problems are Alabama's problems. I am a dispassionate type of prognosticator who will say the hard truth when it doesn't comport with my rooting interest BUT Hurts is a part of the team and it is entirely unfair to characterize him as debilitating factor. We've won national titles with noodle arms (McElroy) and strong-armed boneheads (Coker). We've had our best offensive season in school history with an ex-tailback as the starting quarterback of a prolific passing offense (Sims). Hurts has limitations and it is the millions of dollars put into staff who should be doing all they can to accentuate Hurts' strengths and mesh it with the talent around him.

If Hurts is in the way of this team's success then it is the staff's fault not the young man's.

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The unfair characterizations are getting on my nerves. It's one thing to state his limitations and shortcomings. It's another to ignore his accomplishments. It's another level to say the team consistently won in spite of him. (not directed at you, to be clear)

Hurts has mostly done a good job aside from the aforementioned weaknesses in his game. It is most definitely on the coaching staff to maximize the potential of whichever QB they feel is in the best position to help the team win and to minimize their weaknesses. IIRC, Saban took the blame for the loss to AU as he well should have.

At some point no matter who is playing QB everyone has to get behind that person. That may be difficult for some given just how sour they seem to be on Hurts. Some things are hard to walk back. Perhaps there will be no need for that anyway.

To be clear, I don't care if Lester Cotton plays QB if he gives Alabama the best chance to win. I hope the coaches and team get it all figured out in time to bring #17 home this season.

I have been pretty critical of Hurts on here but I have to defend this whole "leadership" criticism of him. There are a ton of different types of leaders at QB and other positions in the NFL and College. There isn't a one size fits all deal. Being calm and cool doesn't make you less of a leader

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Maybe the thread title shaped my thoughts. The game is against Bama. That encompasses more than "Bama with Hurts"

I think I just projected the image of something I shouldn't have on to Jalen, and agree teammates lead in many ways. If he just does his job, does it at a high level, without mistakes it should be enough. The coaches must put him in situations that accent his skill-set. I didn't mean to insinuate he's not a quality leader. To the contrary, he has never been in trouble, seems like the type of young man we all like to see succeed.

The pressure is on our coaching staff to design plays and make adjustments so our offense will have success. Part of me is just nervous there's much less room for mistakes on the offensive side this year more than in the past.

Look no further than Stallings and Olivers game-plan against Miami and our players pent up rage to force their will against a star laden team many felt we shouldn't even be on the field with.
Or the rematch against LSU where a few changes by the coaches along with great preparation made the difference. The '15 season championship where coaching calls made a huge difference.

There isn't a lack of alphas at any position on our team. I hope they feast the next two games.

(Fire.. still.. building, must.. try.. to.. contain....):biga: