Avoid Memphis - Confederate statues coming down - Page 10
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  1. #118
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: Avoid Memphis - Confederate statues coming down

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaro View Post
    No, I bolded 'but the North won the war' so my response was to those words. Its ludicrous to think that I am glad 260,000 Americans were killed.
    you must be new 'round these parts
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

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  3. #119
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: Avoid Memphis - Confederate statues coming down

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaro View Post
    No, I bolded 'but the North won the war' so my response was to those words. Its ludicrous to think that I am glad 260,000 Americans were killed.
    I guess you can't make an omelette without cracking some eggs. Which is fine, as long as you're not one of those eggs.
    The "North won the war" was a result achieved on some very real sacrifice by folks North and South, white and black.
    There was a better way.

  4. #120
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Texas votes to remove Confederate plaque that says Civil War wasnít over slavery

    Following more than a year of complaints from elected officials of all political stripes, a state board that oversees the Texas Capitol grounds voted unanimously Friday to remove a controversial Confederate plaque that falsely asserts that the Civil War was ďnot a rebellion, nor was its underlying cause to sustain slavery.Ē
    https://www.texastribune.org/2019/01...t-dan-patrick/

  5. #121
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: Texas votes to remove Confederate plaque that says Civil War wasnít over slavery


  6. #122
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Dedications over Time of Union Monuments in Five States


    By way of explanation. We have all seen the SPLC diagram plotting the dedication of Confederate monuments and events like the founding of "the Invisible Empire" of the KKK, lynchings, etc. This is useful is correlation equaled causation. As a friend of mine said, "If correlation equaled causation, we would have more respect for sociology than we do."
    Fortunately, there is a "control group": Union monuments. Out of curiosity, I went to see if someone had tallied Union Civil War monuments. I found web sites from Ohio, Indiana, Massachusetts Connecticut (two New England states, and two midwestern states). Later, because I drove through Maine this past summer and they have some excellent monuments, I added that state as well. This brought the tally to 370 monuments. I graphed when they were dedicated, and the chart above was the result.
    So what do I make of this?
    1. The peak in Union Civil War monument dedication was the silver anniversary 1886-1890. Lots of war nostalgia going on in this period: veterans' reunions and the publication of war memoirs.
    2. The period of the second highest activity was 1902-1911. A 20-year-old in 1860 would be approaching the end of his three-score and ten" years and if the community wanted to express gratitude to him while he was still alive to appreciate it, this decade was the last chance. Additionally, the Spanish-American War had rekindled martial fervor and patriotism.

    Southern communities did not experience the 25-year anniversary peak (the economy in the South was still a shambles in the 1880s), although Virginia managed to erect monuments in Alexandria, Richmond, Staunton and Manassas, but had recovered by 1900 so this peak was experienced on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line.

    Two last comments.
    1. I predict that as the sample size is increased, the same pattern (peaks in 1886-1890 and 1902-1911) will remain.
    2. The extent that the monuments address the causes for which these soldiers fought, three themes arise. They fought for (a) the Union (no surprise, but without addressing why a political union including members who wish to no longer be members is something worth killing for) (b) the Constitution (sic), and (c) "that government of the people by the people, and for the people" (sic).

    None of which should be surprising. We erect monument to peoples' virtues, not their failings. As Indiana Governor Oliver Morton said, “Let us honor the dead, cherish the living, and preserve in mortal memory the deeds and virtues of all, as an inspiration for countless generations to come.”
    Last edited by Tidewater; January 14th, 2019 at 01:24 PM.

  7. #123
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: Dedications over Time of Union Monuments in Five States


  8. #124
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Crimson1967's Avatar
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    Re: Dedications over Time of Union Monuments in Five States

    So the judge thinks local communities know what is best for them rather than big government making a one size fits all decision for everybody.




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  9. #125
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: Dedications over Time of Union Monuments in Five States

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson1967 View Post
    So the judge thinks local communities know what is best for them rather than big government making a one size fits all decision for everybody.




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    that's not what the judge said at all. he is actually saying the exact opposite

    A ruling issued late Monday by Jefferson County Circuit Judge Michael Graffeo says a 2017 state law barring the removal or alteration of historical monuments violates the free speech rights of local communities.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

  10. #126
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Crimson1967's Avatar
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    Re: Dedications over Time of Union Monuments in Five States

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    that's not what the judge said at all. he is actually saying the exact opposite
    How is it not? He is giving local communities the right to decide if they want a certain statue in their town instead of the state telling them they canít.


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  11. #127
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: Dedications over Time of Union Monuments in Five States

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson1967 View Post
    How is it not? He is giving local communities the right to decide if they want a certain statue in their town instead of the state telling them they can’t.


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    you are correct, i completely mis-read your comment. sorry 'bout that.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

  12. #128
    BamaNation Hall of Fame MattinBama's Avatar
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    Re: Avoid Memphis - Confederate statues coming down

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson1967 View Post
    So the judge thinks local communities know what is best for them rather than big government making a one size fits all decision for everybody.
    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    that's not what the judge said at all. he is actually saying the exact opposite
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson1967 View Post
    How is it not? He is giving local communities the right to decide if they want a certain statue in their town instead of the state telling them they can’t.
    I think 92 may have read your post incorrectly the same way that I seemingly did.

    On first reading I took it as a "big government judge stepping on local people" condemnation of the judge argument that pops up a lot.

    Edit - 92 beat me to it.

  13. #129
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Crimson1967's Avatar
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    Re: Avoid Memphis - Confederate statues coming down

    No problem, guys. Communicating in a written forum isnít always easy.

    Someone said in a comment on this article on Facebook that they wanted to know when MLK statues were coming down. I said that now they can if thatís what the city wants.

    The statues donít really bother me. But I understand why they bother others. If a city doesnít want them, they have the right to take them down. Same with Jeff Davis High School. Iím not going to forget the Civil War if I donít see a statue.


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  14. #130
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: Avoid Memphis - Confederate statues coming down

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson1967 View Post
    No problem, guys. Communicating in a written forum isn’t always easy.

    Someone said in a comment on this article on Facebook that they wanted to know when MLK statues were coming down. I said that now they can if that’s what the city wants.

    The statues don’t really bother me. But I understand why they bother others. If a city doesn’t want them, they have the right to take them down. Same with Jeff Davis High School. I’m not going to forget the Civil War if I don’t see a statue.


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    i just hope like hell we eventually end up with something like this here

    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

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