Avoid Memphis - Confederate statues coming down

TIDE-HSV said:

There was a lot of remaking of history in north Alabama during Reconstruction. It was the prudent thing to do...

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there are a lot more confederate flags flying now than there were when i grew up there.

Tidewater said:

I'm not really sure what your point is here. Plenty of poor men voted to leave the Union.And plenty of rich men served in the army.

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That wasn't the point.





Then tell me the Southern fairytale reasons of why South Carolina decided to fire on Ft Sumter, while I use primary sources.

If the Republican party with its platform of principles, the main feature of which is the abolition of slavery and, therefore, the destruction of the South, carries the country at the next Presidential election, shall we remain in the Union, or form a separate Confederacy? This is the great, grave issue. It is not who shall be President, it is not which party shall rule – it is a question of political and social existence.— Alfred P. Aldrich​

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The anti-slavery party contends that slavery is wrong in itself, and the Government is a consolidated national democracy. We of the South contend that slavery is right...— Laurence Massillon Keitt, Speech to the House, (January 1860)​

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Our people have come to this on the question of slavery.— Laurence Massillon Keitt, South Carolina secession debates, (December 1860)​

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I could go on, but....

Tidewater said:

Since you asked.

Republican senators Henry Wilson of Massachusetts and William
Seward (Republican front-runner for president in 1860) knew about John Brown's
plans to commit an act of terror at Harper's Ferry 17 months before it
happened, yet they told no one. Seward did not object to the plan, he only
“expressed regret that he had been told.” (New York Herald, October 27, 1859).

Barclay Coppoc, one of John Brown's raiders, escaped from
Harper's Ferry in October 1859. His brother Edwin was captured and gave his
brother up, telling his captors that Barclay was probably back home in Iowa.
When Virginia asked for his arrest and extradition to Virginia for trial for
murder, treason and insurrection, the Republican governor of Iowa refused, and
even sent a messenger to Coppoc warning his that Virginia was seeking his
arrest and extradition. The
Staunton (Va.) Vindicator condemned Kirkwood’s entire
handling of this case. “The conduct of the Governor of Iowa … is remarkable for
its duplicity, and shows to us of the South, what we have to expect from
northern officials, elevated to power by the sectional party of the day.” (Staunton, Va. Vindicator, February 17, 1860.) In other words, this is what a
Republican in executive office means: Republicans will use their office to
protect from prosecution criminals as long as they are antislavery criminals,
which does not bode well for states with lots a slaves, whoever owns them.

The very next week, the Alabama legislature issued a
declaration. "anti-slavery agitation persistently continued in the
non-slaveholding States of this Union, for more than a third of a century,
marked at every stage of its progress by contempt for the obligations of law
and the sanctity of compacts [such as the provision of the return of fugitives
from justice who have escaped into neighboring states of the Union], evincing a
deadly hostility to the rights and institutions of the Southern people, and a
settled purpose to effect their overthrow even by the subversion of the
Constitution, and at the hazard of violence and bloodshed." (Smith, History and Debates of the
Convention of the People of Alabama, p. 9). Alabama did not
issue secession declaration in January 1861, but it did lay out its grievances
in February 1860.







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John Brown must be a hero of yours because everytime someone brings up a confederate constitution or what Alexander Stephens said for the reasons to secede from the United States, the "Union knew about John Brown" deflection comes up every single time. How does any of it disprove that the political driving force behind the CSA was the institution of slavery?

Tidewater said:

Article IV of the same Constitution says that
Congress shall guarantee to each state of the Union a republican form of
government. If Trump declared that California was a bunch of traitors and sent
the army to overthrow the state government by force would you be okay with that?



That was the proximate cause of Virginia's withdrawal from
the Union. Virginia said that was unconstitutional, antidemocratic and they
would not take part in such an act.

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To preserve the Union... Yes. To stroke an ego... NO. The State of Virginia didn't beat the British, nor did the State of South Carolina, New York, and the other 13. They beat them together, and established the country we know today. Just because the South couldn't accept times were changing, doesn't mean they were right in raising arms against the United States.

Even Lee recognized that he was in the end a TRAITOR.​

Lincoln was justifiable in sending troops to suppress a rebellion that Bucchanan let get way out of hand because South Carolina didn't like the election result. Even your State's most famous son did it twice, but I guess its different when its a Virginian doing it than log house Kentucky-Illinois transplant doing it.