JessN: Georgia wrap-up: Saban’s courage to make a tough call nets him a sixth title

DrollTide

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Not sure where to post this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9sahVQfFkU

It is the ESPN coaches film room, broadcast live during the game, so it is long. If you are going to watch the game again, you should watch this at least once.

The coaches reflections are very interesting, especially as we know the outcome. The stuff they know, and also the things they get wrong, is fascinating. None of them realized that Saban had committed to Tua for the whole second half, wondering when he was going to get pulled.
 

JessN

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What do think the possibility is of both QBs sticking around? I think most fans are assuming that this Tua’s team and Jalen may transfer. But, based on reports, playing Tua in that situation may have been part of the game plan. He was rumored to get PT against Clemson. But Jalen and rushing attack was working. It obviously didn’t against Georgia. I don’t think I’d want to see a two QB system. But, it wouldn’t surprise me if we tried it. Saban would go with the hot hand.
If Tua wins the job, I think it's better than 50/50 that Hurts stays with it. The backup plays a pretty good bit here in most years, but next year has a chance to play more than usual. Hurts would be a third-year junior having to transfer to another school with just one spring to compete for a job.

If Jalen wins the job, I think Tua leaves.
 

CrimsonEyeshade

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If Tua wins the job, I think it's better than 50/50 that Hurts stays with it. The backup plays a pretty good bit here in most years, but next year has a chance to play more than usual. Hurts would be a third-year junior having to transfer to another school with just one spring to compete for a job.
If Jalen wins the job, I think Tua leaves.
Jess, is there still a realistic chance that this could happen? If so, how would it play out?
 

day-day

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Not sure where to post this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9sahVQfFkU

It is the ESPN coaches film room, broadcast live during the game, so it is long. If you are going to watch the game again, you should watch this at least once.

The coaches reflections are very interesting, especially as we know the outcome. The stuff they know, and also the things they get wrong, is fascinating. None of them realized that Saban had committed to Tua for the whole second half, wondering when he was going to get pulled.
Did Coach Saban commit to Tagovailoa for the whole 2nd half or did he stick with him based on the results? Tagovailoa said post-game that Coach Saban told him during the half that he would rotate or alternate (something to that effect) quarterbacks in the 2nd half.
 

JessN

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Jess, is there still a realistic chance that this could happen? If so, how would it play out?
Absolutely a realistic chance. The best either of those guys are going to get heading into the spring is the promise that the job is 100 percent open and let the best man win it. There are plenty of what-ifs that aren't even in play yet. What if Brian Daboll goes back to the pros? NFL turnover might shake up the Patriots' staff and Daboll might go back up there as OC. If that happens and Alabama hired, say, someone with a Big 12 background who favors a less pure-vertical offense, that plays into Jalen's hands. There's also the issue of Saban not liking to declare winners of the QB job in the spring. He either makes the call in fall camp or he lets the QBs fight it out at the beginning of the following year. Let's say Jalen's a little ahead at the end of spring, or they're tied, and Saban says "we'll make the call in the fall," and Tua decides he doesn't want to take that risk. UCLA wants both the Tagovailoa brothers badly and what Tua did against Georgia is just going to make other schools more determined to make off-the-record contact with family members, etc.

Point being if fans think Saban is going to come right out and say "Tua's our starter" at any point before the end of April, I think they're going to be disappointed.

Now, if Daboll stays in place and Tua has the kind of spring in 2018 that he had in 2017, I think he'll win the job, assuming it's truly open. But it's hard to look Jalen's career record and ignore it. And I keep going back to this, but Jalen's last snap of the 2016-2017 season was him walking into an end zone against Clemson. What if the defense holds on to that game and Jalen had won two rings in two years? This might not be as easy as it looks.

I think Jalen could have a role here as an H-back, receiver and running back even if he never took another snap at QB. And if you're Jalen, you've got to take honest stock of your potential to play the game at the next level. If you're not NFL material, you have a choice to either stay with your teammates as a role player, or transfer down and play as much as you can for two years before you move onto whatever career field you've chosen. If he's not NFL material here, I don't think he's going to develop into NFL material somewhere else. And that's where he has to make his choice, if he loses the starting job.

Tua has a slightly different set of choices. He doesn't have ideal NFL size, but he has obvious arm talent, a head for quarterbacking and he's got moxie. He doesn't need Alabama to get him to the league, and more importantly, he doesn't need Jalen blocking him from displaying his talents. So yeah, I think if you have a competition and Hurts wins it -- especially if what is supposed to be open competition comes off looking as something less than open -- I think Tua is gone, sitting out the 2018 season.
 

JessN

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Did Coach Saban commit to Tagovailoa for the whole 2nd half or did he stick with him based on the results? Tagovailoa said post-game that Coach Saban told him during the half that he would rotate or alternate (something to that effect) quarterbacks in the 2nd half.
They were told they were going to rotate, and then they didn't rotate. Do I think they ever intended to rotate them? No. I think the switch was permanent for that game and the only way Jalen would have gone back in is if Tua had fouled up 2-3 drives in a row out of the gate. Fortunately for him, he put a touchdown in between a three-and-out and that incredible interception. And by the time Georgia made it 20-7, I think Saban knew he just didn't have a choice but to ride it out with Tua.
 

dvldog

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Seems like this is a spot where Jalens father could play a big role. He should be able to offer Jalen sound advise based on how he has seen Jalen perform as a QB for Bama, what his real potential is re next level, etc. Hard to keep emotion out of it when its your son but he's a coach and has coached Jalen. I think a lot may depend on how the Dad views how Jalen was treated by the coaching staff. Did he get a fair shake? Did he get the coaching to develop potential etc? Going to be an interesting spring.
 

day-day

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They were told they were going to rotate, and then they didn't rotate. Do I think they ever intended to rotate them? No. I think the switch was permanent for that game and the only way Jalen would have gone back in is if Tua had fouled up 2-3 drives in a row out of the gate. Fortunately for him, he put a touchdown in between a three-and-out and that incredible interception. And by the time Georgia made it 20-7, I think Saban knew he just didn't have a choice but to ride it out with Tua.
I thought maybe the plan wasn't really to rotate but Coach Saban used this term as a way to take a "little" pressure or distraction away from Tagovailoa.
 

bamacon

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Jalen would be wise to switch positions. He’s got enough fball IQ and strength and speed to play several positions. I have to assume he wants a professional career and that will never be as a QB. That is just a simple truth. I hope he stays because I feel he could really help this team in several areas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

TAKEPRIDE22

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Great read and this part "All together, this may have been Nick Saban’s best effort of his coaching career" and "It’s criminal how Nick Saban never seems to be considered for coach of the year honors, as the award has really morphed into the “Coach of the Team that Exceeded Expectations the Most” award" is the part I most agree with.
 

BamaBuc

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Not sure where to post this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9sahVQfFkU

It is the ESPN coaches film room, broadcast live during the game, so it is long. If you are going to watch the game again, you should watch this at least once.

The coaches reflections are very interesting, especially as we know the outcome. The stuff they know, and also the things they get wrong, is fascinating. None of them realized that Saban had committed to Tua for the whole second half, wondering when he was going to get pulled.
It's been taken down from youtube due to Copyright infringement...
 

JessN

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It's been taken down from youtube due to Copyright infringement...
You can still go over to ESPN, find the page where they have the WatchESPN app shows archived and it's there. Unfortunately the signal is choppy and the player likes to reset a lot.
 

JessN

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Seems like this is a spot where Jalens father could play a big role. He should be able to offer Jalen sound advise based on how he has seen Jalen perform as a QB for Bama, what his real potential is re next level, etc. Hard to keep emotion out of it when its your son but he's a coach and has coached Jalen. I think a lot may depend on how the Dad views how Jalen was treated by the coaching staff. Did he get a fair shake? Did he get the coaching to develop potential etc? Going to be an interesting spring.
That might be a bridge too far. I feel pretty confident saying there's no way his dad is going to tell him, "son, you've struggled at QB and the other guy is better, you should change positions." They're going to fight for the QB job and only if Jalen doesn't win it and Jalen himself wants to stay with his friends at UA is the subject of another position going to come up. Otherwise I believe his dad will advise him to transfer.

The other part of this scenario that hasn't been talked about yet is Mac Jones didn't stay static this year. He got better. I don't think he's going to be allowed to compete with those guys this spring simply because there's not enough time/reps. But if, say, Tua clearly broke out ahead of Jalen early in fall camp and stayed separated from him, it's not like Jalen can just put it on cruise control and stay No. 2. If it starts to look like Mac is catching up fast to Jalen, that changes a lot of things.
 

DrollTide

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Are there any 2-QB packages that make any sense? Tua-to-Jalen on a jet sweep, and he can either turn it up field or toss it up the sideline to the open man?
 

B1GTide

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That might be a bridge too far. I feel pretty confident saying there's no way his dad is going to tell him, "son, you've struggled at QB and the other guy is better, you should change positions." They're going to fight for the QB job and only if Jalen doesn't win it and Jalen himself wants to stay with his friends at UA is the subject of another position going to come up. Otherwise I believe his dad will advise him to transfer.

The other part of this scenario that hasn't been talked about yet is Mac Jones didn't stay static this year. He got better. I don't think he's going to be allowed to compete with those guys this spring simply because there's not enough time/reps. But if, say, Tua clearly broke out ahead of Jalen early in fall camp and stayed separated from him, it's not like Jalen can just put it on cruise control and stay No. 2. If it starts to look like Mac is catching up fast to Jalen, that changes a lot of things.
Thanks - haven't heard anything about Mac in a long time. Glad to hear that he is continuing to work on his game.
 

BamaInBham

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While it will be an open competition, there is no way Saban will or should declare Tua the starter at this point, there is almost no way that Tua will not be the starter whenever one is named. It's not Jalen's fault, IMO, there is not a QB in the Saban era who could withstand the avalanche that is Tua's talent - IMO, really since Stabler. Not only is he a far, far better and more polished passer, IMO, he may even be a better runner. He is much quicker than Jalen, makes better decisions, and is almost as powerful in the lower body and almost as fast. Not only that, as great as Jalen's intangibles are, Tua's are even better. He is just as respected as a person, just as well liked, has more moxie and is more composed. If Tua is not the starter next year, the rest of the coaching staff, the players, the fans and the rest of the college football world will explode in outrage. Yes, Jalen should have his chance, though he has no chance; he should be shown respect for the kind of person he is and for the wonderful things he has done for the program; but time and chance have been kind and unkind to him. There has been no one since Stabler who is close to Tua in tangibles and intangibles. He has everything: physical, mental, character, personality, and makeup - everything but height.

Who on the face of the entire earth, after throwing a bad interception, could or would walk over to Coach Saban, smile, put his arm around him and tell him don't worry he'll learn from it :) ?
 

NationalTitles18

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While it will be an open competition, there is no way Saban will or should declare Tua the starter at this point, there is almost no way that Tua will not be the starter whenever one is named. It's not Jalen's fault, IMO, there is not a QB in the Saban era who could withstand the avalanche that is Tua's talent - IMO, really since Stabler. Not only is he a far, far better and more polished passer, IMO, he may even be a better runner. He is much quicker than Jalen, makes better decisions, and is almost as powerful in the lower body and almost as fast. Not only that, as great as Jalen's intangibles are, Tua's are even better. He is just as respected as a person, just as well liked, has more moxie and is more composed. If Tua is not the starter next year, the rest of the coaching staff, the players, the fans and the rest of the college football world will explode in outrage. Yes, Jalen should have his chance, though he has no chance; he should be shown respect for the kind of person he is and for the wonderful things he has done for the program; but time and chance have been kind and unkind to him. There has been no one since Stabler who is close to Tua in tangibles and intangibles. He has everything: physical, mental, character, personality, and makeup - everything but height.

Who on the face of the entire earth, after throwing a bad interception, could or would walk over to Coach Saban, smile, put his arm around him and tell him don't worry he'll learn from it :) ?
The bolded, BIB. The bolded. Good stuff. And true.

The situation is less about Jalen's talent and more about Tua's once in a generation talent.

Amazing that Namath and Stabler were ever on the same roster.
 

JessN

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Are there any 2-QB packages that make any sense? Tua-to-Jalen on a jet sweep, and he can either turn it up field or toss it up the sideline to the open man?
I don't think those work anywhere.

As soon as you put 2 QBs on the field together, any defense worth a darn is going to reset to safe. As soon as Jalen took a handoff on a jet sweep, you can expect double coverage on whatever receiver is going deep. If they don't double that guy, that team's defensive coordinator is a moron and the team employing him is likely not a contender anyway.
 

Intl.Aperture

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I don't think those work anywhere.

As soon as you put 2 QBs on the field together, any defense worth a darn is going to reset to safe. As soon as Jalen took a handoff on a jet sweep, you can expect double coverage on whatever receiver is going deep. If they don't double that guy, that team's defensive coordinator is a moron and the team employing him is likely not a contender anyway.
Agreed. And I don't see any reason to dabble in a 2 -QB system as it's usually reserved for QB's who do 2 very different types of things. If Tua was an immobile statue in the pocket it might make sense to run Jalen out for a few plays to keep the defense guessing on run vs. pass but Tua is pretty good at both - and if a power run is really what you need out of the QB position you might as well just go wildcat and put Najee Harris back there.

There's a lot of talk about how to keep Jalen engaged in the offense and in my opinion all of it sounds far fetched. I don't think he'd crack the 2 deep on any other position on the team - not because he's a bad athlete but because we have too much talent across the field and those guys have been training in their discipline for years. Talent + Effort = Skill. I don't think Jalen could make it up. Now, Jalen has tremendous character so I could see him staying - but OTOH he's also tasted glory as a QB and could conceivably get another starting job elsewhere. I just don't see him playing a serious role in this offense come September.
 

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